Reorient Microstick Axis
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Anyone know if it’s possible to reorient the Thrustmaster Microstick axes? It’s off slightly from the real jet. I assume this would be more of a driver or hardware issue but I didn’t know if Foxys or the CCP would allow you to reorient. Reason I ask is because it can be annoying when running the radar.
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Yes, if you are using Foxy, you can rearrange the axes virtually. Im not sure how to do it, but its in the manual.
Can I ask if you could detail roughly, how it is slightly off? which direction, etc? Cheers!
If you do do it, please do share your results!
Correct! And what I’ve noticed compared to the real jet is that it’s off by about 30 degrees. When I go to slew the radar or TGP it’s just not natural like it is in the real jet. I will try to collect some data points the next time I fly or at least hit the sim.
That sounds like you want to rotate the plane that is parallel to both the x and y axes, in plane? Which direction? Assuming you are looking at the face of the cursor, should the axes be rotated clockwise, or counterclockwise?
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Its unclear to me if the command works in Foxy. Its mentioned only in T.A.R.G.E.T. documentation, not Foxy, which suggests that it may not.
The command is RotateDXAxis(1st DirectX axis name, 2nd Direct X axis name, twist angle value);
so I think that would make it
RotateDXAxis(MIX, MIY, 30)
So that is incorrect, apparently. MIX and MIY are names for the internal axes, not the directX reported axes. I might have to download T.A.R.G.E.T. to see if I can get this to work.
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When I fly this week I will have a better approximation but I believe based on muscle memory it should rotate about 20 degrees CCW. I will shoot you a PM this week.
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I’d like to know it too
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Page 13 of the TARGET manual describes how to do it.
I dont have TARGET installed, but theres that option.
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Page 13 of the TARGET manual describes how to do it.
I dont have TARGET installed, but theres that option.
Thank you! I will give this a try later today and report back here.
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Page 13 of the TARGET manual describes how to do it.
I dont have TARGET installed, but theres that option.
So after reading Page 13 of the target manual, I found that it does not apply. What I’m specifically speaking about is the Cursor/Enable switch also known as the Z-Axis. From muscle memory I know about where the Z-axis should be positioned for the TGP and FCR to do what I want (i.e. slew up, down left right). When flying BMS I’ve noticed that when I go to these memorized locations it introduces a some type of other slew as well (i.e. I want to slew up on the FCR, but I get an Up and slightly Right). Which leads me to believe the Z-axis needs to be rotated just slightly.
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So after reading Page 13 of the target manual, I found that it does not apply. What I’m specifically speaking about is the Cursor/Enable switch also known as the Z-Axis. From muscle memory I know about where the Z-axis should be positioned for the TGP and FCR to do what I want (i.e. slew up, down left right). When flying BMS I’ve noticed that when I go to these memorized locations it introduces a some type of other slew as well (i.e. I want to slew up on the FCR, but I get an Up and slightly Right). Which leads me to believe the Z-axis needs to be rotated just slightly.
I think you are mistaken. Its not the z-axis you want to rotate, its the x and y axes. The manual is talking about using the command for the stick, but thats not the only way to use the command. You can rotate the x and y ministick axes with it, as well.
When I say rotate the x and y axes, I mean for them to remain in the current POM, while the direction of their axes is taken to a new heading - as though the axes were all bound together, and you held the z axis, and rotated it on its axis, so that the x and y axes rotate.
That would make the script
RotateDXAxis(DX_XROT_AXIS, DX_YROT_AXIS, 20);
This would rotate the axes 20 degrees clockwise, as seen from the face of the cursor enable switch. In this case, if you try to slew purely up, and get up and slightly right, this should correct that.
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One should note that the x-y alignment of the Microstick is going to change wrt BMS as the throttle is rotated. What I do (did) is to calibrate my Microstick with the throttle standing with the Microstick x-y oriented parallel to the floor. After that you just have to learn how to slew correctly…but I haven’t noted anything “incorrect” about it. Other than the usual drift problems everyone with a Cougar TQS sees.
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One should note that the x-y alignment of the Microstick is going to change wrt BMS as the throttle is rotated.
Its going to stay fixed in the reference frame fixed to the throttle body, though. And if its not correct there, a software fix is a lot easier than a hardware fix.
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Its going to stay fixed in the reference frame fixed to the throttle body, though. And if its not correct there, a software fix is a lot easier than a hardware fix.
Granted - but my point is that your hand/wrist/thumb also reorient wrt the Microstick as you move the throttle - and that can also depend on how you have it mounted…so it can seem like it’s out of whack to a newbie. Took me a bit to get used to the geometry myself, but once I did I no longer notice it. Unless I move my TQS to another desk/chair…but I adapt quicker now.
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Granted - but my point is that your hand/wrist/thumb also reorient wrt the Microstick as you move the throttle - and that can also depend on how you have it mounted…so it can seem like it’s out of whack to a newbie. Took me a bit to get used to the geometry myself, but once I did I no longer notice it. Unless I move my TQS to another desk/chair…but I adapt quicker now.
Hmm. Ive never had that happen. My wrist moves, my palm stays fixed to the throttle body, so my thumb never has a change in its relative orientation of the axes. I guess if you adjust your grip as you advance/retract the throttle, it would affect the feel of which way is up for the axes?
Its also likely something that is more pronounced on a stock TQS over the real jet, given the short throw the Cougar TQS has, and how much of an angle it gets to from its short radius, as it is advanced.
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Mostly depends on how your TQS sits on your desk - in my case when I push the throttle forward I can notice that my thumb goes out of axis with my forearm, most notably at the end of travel, where I end up “over-handing” the grip. I’m in PT for that elbow just now, so I notice such motion related things more and more because they’re making me do it…but as the throttle rotates the x-y planes also rotate with it, so “up/down” and “L/R” may not actually be in the absolute directions you’d think they are from an instinctively kinesthetic standpoint. Until you learn to compensate, which isn’t difficult - you just watch the display and do it, not even noticing.
It’s also more pronounced over the real jet because the Microstick moves so much, and so easily…under G a pilot couldn’t even really use it the way it’s mechanized on the Cougar TQS; far too sensitive. The real cursor controller button is a force input type switch, similar to the SSC. I have a mod in mind to cure/imitate this as well…
I’ll get a chance to noodle all of this once again after my pit is complete - I have a real F-16 throttle arm and guide plate replica, and I’m certain the throttle will also sit in a different place wrt my body than it does on my desk (much lower, I hope…). So I’ll have a new set of muscle memory training to do then…plus lifting the throttle to get to the AB and cutoff positions. That’s going to be just plain odd…
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It’s also more pronounced over the real jet because the Microstick moves so much, and so easily…under G a pilot couldn’t even really use it the way it’s mechanized on the Cougar TQS; far too sensitive. The real cursor controller button is a force input type switch, similar to the SSC. I have a mod in mind to cure/imitate this as well…
I might be interested in something along those lines.
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I might be interested in something along those lines.
This guy has done nearly exactly what I intend, only with his Warthog throttle…scroll down to his “Slew Control Mod” -
http://tazintosh.com/en/thrustmaster-hotas-warthog/
You can get 3D printed buttons (and other parts) here -
http://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/?tag=thrustmaster
…note that you can even get some of them 3D printed in metal!
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The mod depicted there only changes the physical cursor, not the sensor or how it works. Its purely designed to remove the little nub of plastic in the middle of the cursor.
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As pointed out, the microstick is extremely sensitive compared to the real jet.
I hopped in the sim today and marked data points and compared them to BMS. Pretty close to exact.
So what was my issue you ask? Well I had the x & y axes switched which obviously produced odd results when using it. After switching them it worked great. Apparently being qualified in the jet doesn’t mean you’re qualified in BMS…
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…. Apparently being qualified in the jet doesn’t mean you’re qualified in BMS…
Fortunately for you and yours, neither does the reverse.
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The mod depicted there only changes the physical cursor, not the sensor or how it works. Its purely designed to remove the little nub of plastic in the middle of the cursor.
Actually, I think it also replaces the stock switch with a pointing stick - the little nub pointer found in a lot of laptop keyboards…that’s what I intend to do. That will give me an actual force dependent cursor controller and with a far more consistent RTZ. Looking over my tear down pictures of the Cougar TQS I may also need to 3D print a bracket/adapter to hold the pointing stick assembly. But that’s my plan, based on this example. The reason it should work is because the Microstick behaves as a mouse and so does the pointing stick…so it should be pretty much plug and play.