ECM-jamming
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Hello guys,
a few months ago, I read the GRl F-16CJ-34-1-1-manual of the HAF F-16CJ/DJ Block 50.
There, I read about the ECM-jamming and how it all works.Keep in mind that even though this is the HAF Block 50 with another RWR-system, the ECM in general works together with the RWR.
Well, my question for you guys is: does that ECM-pod even work ? Does it actually jam ? and if it jams(what I highly doubt) why can’t I see indications on my RWR ?
Thx in advance guys
Ps: apparently, in DCS this works, but limited, does anybody have more intel about that ?
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Jamming in DCS is very limited, to the point of being almost useless in e.g. the A-10C.
It does indeed work in BMS. Just keep in mind that turning on your ECM attracts attention, and that it’s the strongest to the front and rear.
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As for what I have learned about it, it is a stepping jammer. I does not really jam anything at all. When it receives a signal which it recognizes as hostile the pod absorbs the wave from the transmitter and then sends back a very accurate return wave which will appear on the hostile equipment as being out of position with the actual aircraft. With each new wave, the position will be moved back hundreds of feet. This is all very well, however as in the real world, often we will be faced with multiple hostile signals. So, never be without one, as a matter of fact, you may as well turn it on when you Fence IN.
On the other side of the issue, I have never felt that the ECM pod actually did thing at all in BMS.
Keep up the coolest work ever BMS team. I certainly appreciate every thing about it.
Raven
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Really no one notices the jammer does anything? I can get Sams to drop lock with it and enemies won’t launch radar missiles until closer in.
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As for what I have learned about it, it is a stepping jammer. I does not really jam anything at all. When it receives a signal which it recognizes as hostile the pod absorbs the wave from the transmitter and then sends back a very accurate return wave which will appear on the hostile equipment as being out of position with the actual aircraft. With each new wave, the position will be moved back hundreds of feet. This is all very well, however as in the real world, often we will be faced with multiple hostile signals. So, never be without one, as a matter of fact, you may as well turn it on when you Fence IN.
On the other side of the issue, I have never felt that the ECM pod actually did thing at all in BMS.
Keep up the coolest work ever BMS team. I certainly appreciate every thing about it.
Raven
Doesnt jam anything?! Lol… a repeater jammer is a heck of a lot more sophisticated than you think… so what do you consider jamming, if not the act of sending false target info back to a victim radar?
Markpoint21, what was the date on the doc you read? Page number? I thought ECM was covered in the triple sticks.
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The document dates from 16 july 1997.
Page 216(1-197), there is where it starts.
It clearly shows indications about what is jammed at the moment.Guys, it is wonderful to hear that ECM-jammer actually does something, but It’d be awesome if I could see on my RWR what is jammed at the moment.
And does anybody have more intel that he/she can share about ECM-jamming ? I’d like to learn more about it. -
And does anybody have more intel that he/she can share about ECM-jamming ? I’d like to learn more about it.
Are we speaking RL of Falcon?
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The document dates from 16 july 1997.
Page 216(1-197), there is where it starts.
It clearly shows indications about what is jammed at the moment.Guys, it is wonderful to hear that ECM-jammer actually does something, but It’d be awesome if I could see on my RWR what is jammed at the moment.
And does anybody have more intel that he/she can share about ECM-jamming ? I’d like to learn more about it.http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/
Check out the link, Fundamentals of Electronic Warfare.
The RWR in BMS does not show what signals the ALQ-181 is responding to. Its worth noting that the depicted RWR is the ALR-66, which I dont think is in any of the BMS cockpits?
Specifics of how the ECM works on the real jet are very limited, in that a lot of it is classified. The document discussed actually does not detail anything about how the ECM works, just a little note on how some information is displayed on the RWR.
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It clearly shows indications about what is jammed at the moment.
if I could see on my RWR what is jammed at the moment
In real, what is jammed is what is in priority on the RWR and what is “positioned” to the proper angles so the jammer sensors to be able to jam it.
In bms it will need exe code edits, and since some stuff are not known I am not sure at all these would be available one day.
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http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/
Check out the link, Fundamentals of Electronic Warfare.
The RWR in BMS does not show what signals the ALQ-181 is responding to. Its worth noting that the depicted RWR is the ALR-66, which I dont think is in any of the BMS cockpits?
Specifics of how the ECM works on the real jet are very limited, in that a lot of it is classified. The document discussed actually does not detail anything about how the ECM works, just a little note on how some information is displayed on the RWR.
Thank you very much BlueWolf
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How can I make the jammer work at the Block 40 or 50 ?
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How can I make the jammer work at the Block 40 or 50 ?
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If you have ECM pod just turn on and works. Block 40/50 do not have internal jammer. -
Read the manual on the CMDS and it should cover it. Broadly speaking, consent to emit with CMS aft, cancel consent with CMS right.
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http://falcon.blu3wolf.com/Docs/
Check out the link, Fundamentals of Electronic Warfare.
The RWR in BMS does not show what signals the ALQ-181 is responding to. Its worth noting that the depicted RWR is the ALR-66, which I dont think is in any of the BMS cockpits?
Specifics of how the ECM works on the real jet are very limited, in that a lot of it is classified. The document discussed actually does not detail anything about how the ECM works, just a little note on how some information is displayed on the RWR.
Bluwolf I came across your site not through the BMD Forum. The Fundamentals of EW is a brilliant document and brought together a lot of stuff I had read elsewhere on the web. Excellent and thanks.
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I agree, it does work. It will not work very long. As you get closer to the SAM radar it eventually will lock you up. Try and head for an SA2 or SA5 with jammer off with the HTS pod installed. As soon as the SAM radar comes up on your HAD as a solid red turn on jamming and it will break lock. Eventually the radar will burn through.
I have an interest in ECM, specifically the EA-18G Growler. There is not a lot out there but I posted some of the links I have found.
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/SE-16.pdf
https://www.quora.com/What-tactics-and-techniques-do-electronic-jamming-pods-use
Basically, there are two types of jamming - noise and deception jamming. The first is used to block particular frequencies with waves of energy coming from the jamming aircraft. The second uses various techniques to deceive the radar as to the targets location. Self protection pods typically use deception techniques as they are not powerful enough to effectively noise jam radars.
Cyberwarfare is a related specialty. Supposedly the Israelis used network attack to take down the Syrian air defense system when they attacked their nuclear site.
http://www.defensetech.org/2007/11/26/israels-cyber-shot-at-syria/
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Basically, noise jamming is antiquated. You need to cover a band of frequencies, and the fact that modern radars are quite powerful means your jammer needs to be much more powerful again - and then in addition your noise jammer can be found with a direction finder. Repeater jamming on the other hand can cover a wide range of frequencies, needs less power than the radar, and often needs no power.
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Basically, noise jamming is antiquated. You need to cover a band of frequencies, and the fact that modern radars are quite powerful means your jammer needs to be much more powerful again - and then in addition your noise jammer can be found with a direction finder. Repeater jamming on the other hand can cover a wide range of frequencies, needs less power than the radar, and often needs no power.
I maybe wrong, but I do believe specialized jets like the EA-18G and EA-6B still use different methods of noise jamming. Frequency agile radars make it more difficult. Podded self protection jammers also do not have the generating power to effectively employ noise jamming and come with the disadvantage of announcing the route of the strike package. But the pods like the ALQ-99 carried by the Grolwer and Prowler can generate more electromagnetic energy and have the ability to counter frequency agile systems. They are typically used in the stand off role when supporting strikes by stealth aircraft like the B-2 and F-117 in order to disrupt the decision cycle of the enemy air defense network. Stealth aircraft are optimized against the shorter wavelength air defense radars. Noise jamming focused on long range search radars - even if only useable for a short while - can provide stealth bombers and fighters the time they need to get in and get out the MEZ.
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Are we talking about the 90s then? F-117 is retired…
Noise jammers as a concept have issues. To spread it out over a frequency range decreases effective power for that frequency, or drives up total power consumption. There is a limit to how effective that can be.
Noise jamming EWRs is a bit pointless. It announces your presence, but doesnt conceal it any more than the stealth aircraft do.
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Are we talking about the 90s then? F-117 is retired…
Noise jammers as a concept have issues. To spread it out over a frequency range decreases effective power for that frequency, or drives up total power consumption.
And that’s the exact reason, noise jammers, and other related noise deception techniques utilizes AM(Amplitude Modulation).
C9