Europe Theater Discussion
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Many other are still unfinished.
Before seeing such theater rising, I would love to see at least one, only one, being finished.I personally dont get it, but it does not matter…that “thankfull” opinion is very helpful in my transformation into full Arma guy
So thanks for it. -
I personally dont get it, but it does not matter…that “thankfull” opinion is very helpful in my transformation into full Arma guy
I do not follow you here?
What are you calling “thankfull” opinion … ? I am thankful! … and waiting patiently.
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you are BMS team member (even theater section admin) so your opinion reflects team opinion imo……if u do not want some theater “rising” because some others are unfinished (actually even Korea is for 25 years unfinished)…no more words needed (in relation to my issue)
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(even theater section admin)
I gave up my involvement about theater coordination after PMC story (so, few months after 4.32 1st public release).
so your opinion reflects team opinion imo
No. It was a personal remarks. I do not know what is the Team’s opinion (if “global team” opinion exists!? … because in the team, we do not have everybody the same opinion. But we can work together in the same direction even if we do not share the same opinion. This the reason why the team’s health is very good, work is good, and why not anybody would not be work within such group.)
if u do not want some theater “rising” because some others are unfinished ….
? … I didn’t said “I do not want”… I am rather saying, I do “not really care”. (what the point to have one more project) … we are looking forward finished new stuff … not new project.
(actually even Korea is for 25 years unfinished)
Give me another one which is more elaborated and in accordance with code requirement (even ITO is not ATM) …
no more words needed
… well … ?
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I think , or rather know that theater building in Falcon is very complex and time consuming thing. And I also know that some people have periodical, if not only “one time” enthusiasm to doing something, which fades as quickly as you can say Jack Robinson. This is how it is and not much one can do about it and its their business after all. Then there are some talented participants of this forum who are not only capable of grasping complexity of Falcon works, push it even further but longstanding and loyal members of the Falcon team. In this particular case Lukas (like many others here) in my books is one of them, so IMHO no need for rush and hasty words of disappointment, but instead firm reiteration statement “maybe other theaters wont work , but mine WILL”. Just it would take some more time" because it is complex and that is where the fun is for me in creating it and improving it and necessary rushing it public.
Over the period of time I have met several very serious , dedicated and hardworking developers who for some reason or another quit Falcon even after being involved with her for more than a decade. This is really sad, makes things on the forum and elsewhere much less interesting and should be avoided at all cost. And yet this is free country and anyone can do as they please. This is my 2c about this.
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i was, and will again be at some point, interested in doing modeling for the theater. however, joining the squadron has demanded a lot of practice/mission flight time, which is precious these days, so it became, as predicted, pretty low on the priority list.
but another main reason for that is the learning curve. what i will be doing is not hard, i just need to take the couple of hours at some point and get into it. but for now, all my free time i can get on my rig is spent flying.
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Is this project is alive?
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Guys, making a good theater needs lot’s of resources and years of time. Depending on the level u want to do it and the drawbacks as some times developments in other areas might overcome u and need a restart…
Example EMF started in 2005 and it’s not released yet. That’s 9 years… Imagine… and the first release will not cover the whole theater area…Now think of this if Europe let’s say needs another 2+ years and in the mean time BMS changes for example terrain engine then it might need a restart… or it will be a major drawback…
So as Polak said needs lot’s of time and many human resources…
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**@DJ:**we are looking forward finished new stuff … not new project.
said DJ (Falconeer since 2010 ?)….BTW howto get finished stuff without WIP stuff…I will meditate about it…
**@arty:**Now think of this if Europe let’s say needs another 2+ years and in the mean time BMS changes for example terrain engine then it might need a restart… or it will be a major drawback…
So as Polak said needs lot’s of time and many human resources…Do u really believe this?
What about at least some basic backward compatibility?
BMS changed the rule F4 terrain always had (even F3.0 and 80ths Abrams simulator IIRC)…there were about 5 other hobby Falcons before (noone had problem with this)…I noticed it after BMS was out…it is reported with pictures in many posts. There were some major updates since that report. Nothing changed…I have just rather vaque feedback with no real action from BMS team…and then DJ (team member) says “Before seeing such theater rising, I would love to see at least one, only one, being finished.” and “I do not really care” followsdont tell me about “human resources” and hard “development process” please
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well DCS is doing the same right now… and there is no backward compatibility… they even redo all 3d ground objects…
Sorry but what u say here:
BMS changed the rule F4 terrain always had (even F3.0 and 80ths Abrams simulator IIRC)…there were about 5 other hobby Falcons before (noone had problem with this)…I noticed it after BMS was out…it is reported with pictures in many posts. There were some major updates since that report. Nothing changed…I have just rather vaque feedback with no real action from BMS team…and then DJ (team member) says “Before seeing such theater rising, I would love to see at least one, only one, being finished.” and “I do not really care” follows
I can’t understand it…
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said DJ (Falconeer since 2010 ?)
1998
….BTW how to get finished stuff without WIP stuff…
You perfectly understand what I mean.
Imagine if we had released an unfinished 4.32 Beta version …. What would ppl say if we had in the same time the 4.33 in WIP
… a 4.34 in WIP in paralleled … and another 4.35 being developed simultaneously … but never had released a single patch of a “working” version for the 4.32 … ?That being said … I’m not complaining about the time needed (I well know that it take time … a lot of time and work) … just seeing that there are a lot of WIP, and wondering when they will be working … if they will one day or will be abandoned like some other projects in the past.
I will meditate about it…
If you need to meditate about it …
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Is this project is alive?
That depends on which project you mean and what you mean with alive…
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Now think of this if Europe let’s say needs another 2+ years and in the mean time BMS changes for example terrain engine then it might need a restart… or it will be a major drawback…
So as Polak said needs lot’s of time and many human resources…
Nope. Terrain is low priority. Yeah i know that sounds completely ridiculous. Let me explain.
Terrain is generic stuff - at least it should be. You put in data and a capable engine autogens the terrain. Today you need to place and adjust tiles and such a crap. Imho that’s not what a good terrain should be made of. Sure you can create an awesome VFR scenery, but tiles are always only a snapshot.
What really matters are tons of 3d models on the ground both civ. & mil. That’s how a theater becomes alive.
We are far from having a minimum amount of 3d models.Throughout the last year we had ~12-15 ppl. joining Lazystone and me. They were all sooo enthusiastic and wanted to join. Not a single one complete at least one f***ing 3d model of anything. I’m not talking about anything complex. They don’t have to start with 3d pits, just some simple buildings with a nice texture would be more than enough. The majority didn’t even feel the need to post a singe post on the board. Sorry, if I sound rude - I’m just pretty frustrated.
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That depends on which project you mean and what you mean with alive…
Cretating even just an empty and functional Europe map where you can apply or build your DB and your campaigns.
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this thread is a bit generic…well, we are talking about Europe at least…or some of us are European
@DJ: my project is not the new one…many winters passed over my head, since 1st CATE config was made (with angry), 1st BMP pixel and tile was placed with love…
It is not problem for me to work silently hidden and unseen…just make something with these f*****g diagonals:-| (Monster did in one hour and his program works in 3d too)@Sphynx: Did not know you have so big team.
BTW I disagree terrain is low priority. Terrain is the base, rest is in database (already usefull). -
Despite my rather limited expertise in ALL aspects of terrain building I would like to enter this discussion with this few comments:
a. European theater is so much harder to represent properly and believably in 2D and 3D because of intensity of human build infrastructures.
b. Even if that would sound strange coming from me I agree, that I agree that flat terrains (tiles) should not be what determines ONLY how this or that region of the world feels decently from low and high altitudes.
c. We have done quite a lot in 2D area (even if not 100% available yet - Flare and other projects), but 3D Editor provided by BMS as a native tool has been sadly, if not completely, neglected in various possibilities it has to add to terrains.
d. Complex and densely populated and industrialized areas (like Europe or now many other places in the world) cannot look convincing if 2D is well coordinated with 3D elements - that in itself is a big question how much Falcon performance can handle. Balkan theater could be perhaps the closest to what is required for Europe and all recent accomplishments like FO expertise, their version of 2D terrain, combined with Nove’s improvements should give some clues of where we are at.
e. For campaigns to work in such a dense environment all editing/checking of DB (!), paths, areas, links and what have you could difficult as well as very time consuming as well. Considering all that, good,expert and dedicated TEAM is indispensable for project of such a magnitude. Otherwise it may take ages.
f. For God’s love I also CANNOT comprehend why those changed diagonals on terrain (several times mentioned by Lucas) might have SUCH a impact on anything!!!
Did I forget anything … o yes, perhaps many other things , but to stop anyway just final advice is to keep cool, friendly, appreciative and persistent in pushing Falcon envelope despite all odds and passing quickly time. My 2c.
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@Sphynx: Did not know you have so big team.
BTW I disagree terrain is low priority. Terrain is the base, rest is in database (already usefull).It’s not - we are two LS and me. The rest just vanished…
I don’t think the Db is usefull in any kind of way for a acceptable ET. But yeah - that’s just my opinion. And as long as the terrain is in such a bad condition I don’t think working on it makes any sense. -
Hey Lukas,
said DJ (Falconeer since 2010 ?)….BTW howto get finished stuff without WIP stuff…I will meditate about it…
some comments from my side because same POV like Dee-Jay.
Speaking personal here I really would like to see one community F4 theater coming close towards “finished”, with working campaigns, UI, terrain, maybe some new 3d models, etc.
To get this done think community has to join forces instead of requesting a new theater for every conflict heating up in RL these days.E.g. I got some ideas and it made some bugs to show up, when did play with Balkans theater.
But to get this had to do quite some work on the theater by myself.So no NO against any new theater in general, maybe more the REQUEST to focus one a few things, because we also would love to see them released!!!
Cheers
Biker -
f. For God’s love I also CANNOT comprehend why those changed diagonals on terrain (several times mentioned by Lucas) might have SUCH a impact on anything!!!
I feel so week…… perhaps i am drunked again…PEACE
BTW I LOVE U ALL…as Mikeal Jackson did
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