Monster Terrain tool
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Yes, I’m afraid there is a limit to the size of the picture you’re importing in Tile Lab, but I don;t know the exact numbers. The image library I’m using (FreeImage) is handling this so I’ll look into it and see if I can do something. In the mean time, I’d suggest to cut your image in smaller pieces and try to import each one.
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Yes, I’m afraid there is a limit to the size of the picture you’re importing in Tile Lab, but I don;t know the exact numbers. The image library I’m using (FreeImage) is handling this so I’ll look into it and see if I can do something. In the mean time, I’d suggest to cut your image in smaller pieces and try to import each one.
Sure that is more correct but when u want to import large areas with no special things on them than this could help (using extra large files) like desert forests etc.
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Thanks monster! Perhaps it has to do with the available RAM in the system. I know .Net Bitmap can handle up to 2Gb but doubles the amount of memory needed for each bitmap. I believe the max res there is 32k. In the mean time I found a workaround, but it is more work intensive. Thanks.
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I would like to make some experiments with terraforming. But first a question: where the elevation “elv” file comes from?
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Now, here is something about terraforming using Monster’s editor. Below, series of shots showing how terraforming can be important and significantly transforming how the terrain looks:A. What to do with this ugly patch?
B. How about adding some new texture?
C.Eeeeh, not much better
D.Monster’s Terraforming tools to the rescue .
E.I think now looks little better.
F. After terraforming and just changing one of the terrain texture now is all better.
This was made to show how terraforming can make some difference. Just placing textures on FLAT terrain is not enough. Minor refinement and changing terrain height locally in coordination with texturing may improve the terrain feel and look. It also may lead further to some texture improvement. Unfortunately manual editing of the land is very time consuming. I write this post in hope that we could develop some further improvements to already amazingly good editing tools.
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Those are some UGLY mountains, lol, just kidding.:D
I was doing the same thing with sand dunes in Libya. To see the effect and to determine how to stretch the sand textures to look like they’ve been elevated as the spacing in the textures will be different on the up and down slopes of elevated terrain.
Nice post Ted.;)
RAM22
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Yes, it looks better now….the only issue is, you have just added 1800m high mountains to the flat place
When working in L2 resolution, every noticable terrain rising is just too big for dunes and similar temporary nature processes.Luk
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the only issue is, you have just added 1800m high mountains to the flat place
When working in L2 resolution, every noticable terrain rising is just too big for dunes and similar temporary nature processes.As much I agree that artificial adding height to the terrain because of textures is bogus, however perhaps we could devise some kind of terrain variance factor depending on the type of the terrain. Providing that the top height in the area does not exceed whatever SRTM data shows then perhaps some lowering surround of the peak can provide us with the feel of more rapid slopes , ridges and escarpments. This would account for eroding action. In fact the intention of the post (which I placed originally) on Monster’s Emf website is to start a discussion on devising some new methods to apply some “roughing” to certain areas of theaters known to be rough or when RAPID changes to elevations occur.
Maybe safest method is in playing with textures bump and not elevations.
I shall try to add some more to that later……
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Stupid but i’ll write it. How about a 3d object and the terrain tile on it? Low poly correct altitude…
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Meanwhile……
Can we perhaps move this entire thread to Terrain section of the forum? Monster’s Terrain Editor is all about a terrains. I know it was requested before as well as typo correction in Monster’s name. It will hopefully be continued in the future so why not be in correct place? -
A terrain noob’s (me, hehe) thought regarding elevations….
CATE can also manipulate terrain elevations, can’t it?
… and there was an old tool created by “Blueprint” which is called L2 Elevator Version 1.2
Here is the readme for Version 1.1:
L2 Elevator Version 1.1 Written by Blueprint ==================== What does this program do? -------------------------- "L2 Elevator" (short: L2E) will change the elevation data of the Korea terrain to reflect more realistic values. In short: hills and mountains will be higher. System requirements ------------------- -Any version of Falcon 4 properly installed, recommended is FF3 -About 3MB HDD space on you Falcon partition How do I use it? ---------------- I assume you already installed L2E with the install program since you're reading this file now. First, of course, you should start the program. L2E WILL ONLY WORK ON THE KOREAN TERRAIN! TO ELEVATE OTHER THEATERS, SEE FURTHER DOWN. The "Elevate it!" button: L2E will make a backup of all files changed next. Then L2E will change the elevations in the THEATER.L2 file and copy over new KOREA.THR and THEATER.MEA files. SPTinstall will then run and build the new terrain. After that, LxNormalFix will fix the terrain normals. You're done! Just close L2E and fly! (The "Elevate it!" button will be disabled the next time you start L2E. You must "Undo" then elevations first before being able to elevate again) The "Undo" button: This will UNDO any elevations made by L2E and restore the terrain you had before. SPTinstall and LxNormalFix will run to rebuild the terrain. The "Close" button: Ohh, difficult. I think this one closes the program. I'm not sure though. ;) The status field: When you start L2E, your registered Falcon path will be displayed here. Verify that it's correct! Behind the falcon path you'll see the scale factor that is used to scale the terrain. If you're using L2E to elevate a non-Korean terrain you'll also see the text "local mode". How to use a different scale factor ----------------------------------- This is not recommended for the Korean theater because the KOREA.THR and THEATER.MEA have been built for the default scale of 1.6\. These files affect the ground war in TEs and campaigns. Start L2E with the command line " -scale value" (without quotes) while value is a floating point value (e.g. " -scale 2.1" (without quotes)). You'll see the value in the status area. Now proceed like normal. When L2E has finished, you'll have to rebuild these two files with BaldEagle's PathMaker available here: http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/TheaterUtilities.htm (refer to the manual included on how to create these two files. and replace them in the <falcon>\campaign\save and <falcon>\terrdata\korea\terrain folders. How to elevate other terrains ----------------------------- This won't change your current Falcon install in any way! Put your theaters's THEATER.L2 into the <falcon>\Utilities\L2 Elevator\ folder. Run L2E with the command line " -scale value -local" (without quotes) where value is a floating point value (e.g. " -scale 1.9 -local" (without quotes)). You'll see the text "local mode" in the status area. Press "Elevate it!" and L2E will create and save the elevated file as "newTHEATER.L2". Copy this new file to your theater's terrain dir and rename it to "THEATER.L2" Rebuild the terrain with SPTinstall and LxNormalFix. Rebuild the <theater>.THR and THEATER.MEA files with BaldEagle's PathMaker available here: http://www.zianet.com/baldeagle2/TheaterUtilities.htm (refer to the manual included on how to create these two files. and place them in your theater's campaign and terrain folders. Getting more help ----------------- Visit my forum if you help: http://blueprint.freesites.ws/forum/index.php Have fun! Blueprint Changes in v1.1 -fixed the code not copying two necessary files -if you have FF3 installed, L2 elevator will now also change the eurowar and korea2005 campaigns/theaters -added this readme</theater></falcon></falcon></falcon>
I dunno if it might be still be usefull, … anyway.
Cheers,
LS -
A terrain noob’s (me, hehe) thought regarding elevations….
CATE can also manipulate terrain elevations, can’t it?
… and there was an old tool created by “Blueprint” which is called L2 Elevator Version 1.2
I dunno if it might be still be usefull, … anyway.
Cheers,
LSHey LazyButt,
Do you have a link for that puppy???
I lost it when my FF HDD crashed.
Just interested in playing with it again.TIA,
Dave -
The problem is that no matter how you try to get around it, the resolution of elevation mesh is constant and limited to that of the l2 file. Manipulating the elevation data will not yield more elevation points. It could somewhat compensate for the duller terrain by creating bolder features like higher mountains but that won’t be realistic. In a way, in OF it was better because the engine read up to the l0 file, which had a higher resolution and a more varied, “bumpy” terrain could be modeled right from the srtm data (that engine had other problems like terrain ‘popping-up’ in front of you, and terrain developers having to include that huge l0 file in the package ). I really don’t have any practical advice how to improve this, just pointing it out. Perhaps BMS guys can assist?
edit: see this (old) picture as an example of what could be done with the full resolution l0 file, with the same SRTM data. it’s from AF, but it was the same in OF. This the Zin wadi in southern Israel.
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The problem is that no matter how you try to get around it, the resolution of elevation mesh is constant and limited to that of the l2 file. Manipulating the elevation data will not yield more elevation points. It could somewhat compensate for the duller terrain by creating bolder features like higher mountains but that won’t be realistic. In a way, in OF it was better because the engine read up to the l0 file, which had a higher resolution and a more varied, “bumpy” terrain could be modeled right from the srtm data (that engine had other problems like terrain ‘popping-up’ in front of you, and terrain developers having to include that huge l0 file in the package ). I really don’t have any practical advice how to improve this, just pointing it out. Perhaps BMS guys can assist?
edit: see this (old) picture as an example of what could be done with the full resolution l0 file, with the same SRTM data. it’s from AF, but it was the same in OF. This the Zin wadi in southern Israel.
Agreed,but I have had some luck using the FEF in Monster’s tool in a rebuild of Hawaii,though not as extreme as we’d like.Still bending it a bit better.
demer
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resolution of elevation mesh is constant and limited to that of the l2 file. Manipulating the elevation data will not yield more elevation points. It could somewhat compensate for the duller terrain by creating bolder features like higher mountains but that won’t be realistic.
This is very valid point. L2 having (how many height data per tile???) is 3 degrees less refined from more accurate L1 and L0. But, that annoying popups of the terrain while flying is now eliminated which I think is the right choice from the design point of view. However, negative side effect of that is that the rendition of the terrain in BMS (L2) is therefore little toned down and perhaps can use some discussion in order to find some solution. BTW, isnt SRTM data frequency advantage diminished in BMS because only L2 is used. SRTM has 90 m accuracy for world and 30 for US and Australia. That approx 11^ data points per tile for world (please correct me here if wrong). On the positive side is that this is all in conjunction with very (!) impressive range of sight of the terrain and very good and naturally realistic modeling of fog and haze near the horizon.
I agree also that “cheating” here by introducing fake elevations is not a way intended and I take great pains to ensure that in my terrains I am dealing ATM. Also I want to point out, that because I had made the tiles for ITO2 for FF, I have now very good opportunity to see the difference of the way the terrain is being rendered and see first hand the pluses and minuses of both graphic engines. And this is very point I am trying to make by posting perhaps little controversial ways of making the terrain elevations little more diversified.
I can and will submit some shots to further elaborate all those points and sorry for some chaotic post here.
Case1:Sinai mountains
random photo with heights UNEDITED original as per L2
heights EDITED but the highest point (Mt Sinai )maintained
real deal from the air
Conclusion: original L2 height mesh is too flat and needs editing. Comments?
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No comments just great.
The negative is that almost every area has to be manipulated by hand. At least is there a way that this editing can be done to be close to the real thing without a look and feel assumption?
Also since monster’s terrain tool can edit elevations couldn’t there be a way to get data from a detailed gps data system and integrate them so the flat get’s as your edits? -
I think that the design direction of using just L2 is the right one. It prevents annoying pop ups and inclusion of mipmaps takes away shimmering. The disadvantage of L2 being crude and having very piramid like cones of mountain/hill formations probable and IMHO forces to seek some additional edits like above and also could be aided with some kind of bump, paralax , normal mapping, or combination of those.
As far as additional edits mentioned above I would love to be in developing some sort of methods of global height maps editing withing Monster’s terrain editor. How this could be done globally and beside manual and time consuming work I do not know yet , but as an initial inspiration and food for thought I would recommend taking look at some formations here:
http://makingmaps.net/2008/04/03/map-symbols-landforms-terrain/ATM I would like to concentrate at least on finding some methods to have roads and rivers naturally looking.
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I believe those are known:
http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/dem3.html
http://www.mission-planning.com/DTED_Part3.htm
http://srtm.jrc.ec.europa.eu/
http://srtm.csi.cgiar.org/srtm wrong elevation data
http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/elevmisquotes.htmlalso as I see data can be manipulated in excel? I’m quiet good in excel.
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The disadvantage of L2 being crude and having very piramid like cones of mountain/hill formations probable and IMHO forces to seek some additional edits
I was able to create hills that are for the most part devoid of the pyramid triangle effect by not increasing the elevation to extreme levels from one tile transition to the next.
In extreme low level flight is really the only time you notice the transition to the next level of elevation. Here I’m about 125ft above the ground but below the 2000ft level of the higher terrain in the second pic.
Making the transition less extreme in the amount of distance between one elevation to the next is all that needs to be done to combat the pyramid block/triangle effect and you end up with rolling mountains more so then triangular peaks.
This example was done in a 7 X 9 grid of tiles.
RAM22
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the far views look just amazing and smooth like sand hills… but the close ones are pita…
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the far views look just amazing and smooth like sand hills… but the close ones are pita…
Yes and Yes but with careful attention paid to not allowing the slope to become extreme, the L2 can be manipulated to look less blocky.
I’m not sure at this time that we can totally get rid of some presence of the “PITA” but you can see here it can be minimized.
RAM22