U2 Ground War vs Supply (maybe?)
Greetings from Spain, and Pillars of Hércules Campaign development.
I´d love to hear from the Developers about some unexpected behaviour related to the U2 from the previous one.
In POH, before 4.33, Ground War was very well planned (AI by itself), and was able to reach its goals: Total Conquest of bottom half of Spain and Portugal (Al Andalus!).
With 4.33 the units took unexpected behaviour and the fights against objectives that have units (specially talking about Squadrons located on Airbases) got a lot of time to happen. Before, a Tank/Armour Batallion was able to get into an Airbase easier. Now they try and try but get expelled by just an Air Squadron (not even ground Units).
Well… I kind of solved that with fine tuning, still is something that hampers sometimes the Ground War progress.
Now, to the point: Still, with U1 I was able to reach the goals (half of Spain and Portugal conquered…and I mean almost all objectives, so you see all of them painted in RED)… (note that Spain is 3 to 4 times wider than Korea Buffer zone).
With U2, everything fails.
Begining with weird things like Units at the begining of the Campaign. Sqns are fixed in the DB, and I cannot understand why a campaign started in U1 shows around 350 planes for Blue Guys, but shows 250 planes if started in U2 (or all the way around, but there is a difference).
Addon folder is a direct copy, starting levels (rookie-ace ace and sliders are both the same), same DB… but different numbers. (Note.- Sqns are still the original ones or a direct copy from Korea DB U1).
Why this happen?.
Also… campaign faint. Before, as I said, we developed a way (on TRI file) to get ground battle always ON (thats why they conquer the whole área)… but now, they faint and stall.
I´ve noticed that Supply level evolves differently (posibly now it does it better that before). I tried to force “minimun supply level” to 100 … and it helps a Little… Now units reach more than before, but for sure they don´t reach the goal of Half Spain under their control… More details about how the actual (U2) supply affect the ground war are needed, as it shows a Direct impact on the problems we are suffering in POH.
Also, campaign CTD between day 17 and 21… before it was rock solid.
If any BMS Dev is out there willing to help us out about this topics, I will really apreciate it. Meanwhile I´ll continue to “hammer” an already “hammered” campaign, trying to get was it was supposed to do… sigh
Thanks in advance
johku last edited by
At least the U2 changelog informed that the supply system got changed. Consequently, if a campaign was created and optimized with the 4.33.1 data and code, I wouldn’t be surprised if the campaign didn’t work as expected with 4.33.2. The full changelog is available through the link.
Note: I’m not a developer, so I’m not sure which pieces of the changelog quote are relevant here. Thanks.
DATA: ===== - - - te_new.tac & KTO save0/1/2.cam (Rolling Fire, Iron Fortress, Tiger Spirit): - - * Fixed multiple battalions found on the same location (only brigade's battalions are on the same location than the parent's one) * Reset objectives * Reset parent links * Adjusted supply/fuel values for all objectives * Fixed some missing links * Full check of all objectives * Fixed the TaskForce roster - - CODE: ===== - - - New supply code (can be disabled via "set g_bNewSupplyCode 0" in *.cfg): * We now use sorted lists with high priority recipients first * Supply bonus received by a team when going into offensive now is dependent on available (not yet destroyed) production sources * When a flight uses a weapon which is no longer available in squadron stores, all other weapons will be reduced by 5% * Supply code can be made "verbose" (MonoPrints) for via *.cfg variable (set g_nSupplyDebug_Team, -1 = off, 0 = team 0, 1 = team 1, ..., 8 = all teams) - Battalions now will lose supplies depending on the ground action (when battalion is moving) and also while doing nothing (can be adjusted via variable "BattalionSupplyAttritionTime" in *.aii, default is 6 hours) - New challenge rating code, we'll adjust supply time instead of unit vehicle slots (for disabling add "set g_bNewChallengeRatingCode 0" to the *.cfg) - Supply code will not fill-up more weapons to the stores than we had originally anymore
Thanks mate. But so far I´m unable to find any of those lines in the CFG (understanding it is in the “falcon bms.cfg”) nor in the AII file (understanding the “falcon4.aii” file)
Anyways, I tried to revert to old Supply way, by adding the line “set g_bNewSupplyCode 0” on it (“falcon bms.cfg”)… No luck whatsoever. It behaves exactly in the same way.
Mystic_J last edited by
Do the following tests:
Delete all the BLUE units and leave only the RED units. Observe how the unopposed RED vehicles behave towards their objective.
Open MC or Tacedit and set Initiative 80 for RED and Initiative 20 for Blue.
They (REDs) move almost unopposed. When they get stucked, no one is around them (at least not Ground Units). Tests are done already in the way you suggest.
Regarding Initiative, it is transfered (all of them = 100%) from other Teams (Mainly BLUE), towards REDs… and I do this every 5 mins.
On the assault phase of the campaign I just want REDs to take over the place… and they use to do it in 5-6 days as average… Just fast enough, without any human intervention, to happen ealier than any NATO VJTF (Very High Readiness Joint Task Force) is able to deploy… after that… and depending on the degree of human intervention, you will have to fight with the REDs almost taking Madrid or just fight to recover Land taken. Then is when the BLUE ground forces really show up… in the mean time… they are just a few, week Spanish scattered batallions… normally they don´t even try to face REDs… sometimes they do on Important Objectives… but as I said… on this build-test phase of development, REDs move unopposed (99.9%)
By Reading Changelog, I also think that I will have to re-set Fuel and Supply Values on Objectives (for sure SUPPLY values). Before, they really didn´t change anything to the outcome of the Campaign… so I set them as FUEL=20 and SUPPLY=10 for ALL objectives. I will check new KOREA values to see their new regular values… that may help as well.
Increasing Minimun supply on TRI to high values like 1000 doesn´t help more than using 100… So I´m still stuck here.
Still, don´t find the way to use the new commands (or to see any effect on the changes) to return to the old Supply Logic… IOT see if the new problems are only because of this, or because any other reasons. I need to find and isolate the cause/causes.
Once again. THANKS!
Edit: Yep…KOREA U2 uses way higher values for FUEL and SUPPLY. Important ones top of with 250… some other use 200 or 150… but for sure not my 10, 20 values… Will check how they go with new values. Still… I want to use the new commands to revert to the old Supply logic… I need to know what else is affecting the Campaign.
Well… not luck so far.
I really need confirmation about syntax and real functionallity of the new commands described in the ChangeLog regartding the New Supply Code.
In my “falcon bms.cfg” i added the following:
set g_bNewSupplyCode 0
set g_nSupplyDebug_Team 8
set g_bNewChallengeRatingCode 0
With this, I expect to have the same Supply code as in U1, some kind of writen report about supply evolution (for all teams, as I set it to “8”) in a text file…somewhere (I also set to 1 the value of the General Debug line), and finally I wanted to disable the Challenging rate code (because I don´t know what it does, in comparision to U1)
Unsat results. The evolution of Supply is still the same, and I cannot find any new file with the Supply debug (just wanted to see how the report is, and if it is of any use to keep fixing the campaign)
For POH campagin, I also added in the “falcon4.aii” file, the following:
And later on I change and test values like 24 , 240… I couldn´t see any changes between them.
I also change all fuel and supply values on ALL objectives to 255.
All in all, the campaign Stalls. Supply graph kept going down, and eventually after droping little around/below 50% the Camp will CTD.
So, I kindly resquest from BMS Devs or anyone with the knowledge, to answer:
1.- Am I putting the lines like “set g_…” in the right *.cfg file (falcon bms.cfg)? YES/NO
2.- Is the used syntax correct for the 3 above-mentioned code lines (set g_…)? YES/NO
3.- If not, can you post the right syntax for the wrong ones?
Somehow more important than the 3 previous questions…
4.- Can you confirm that using “set g_bNewSupplyCode 0” will make BMS work as U1 supply-wise? YES/NO
5.- Am I wright expecting a file in return (showing Supply evolution data of somekind) if I use “set g_nSupplyDebug_Team 8” YES/NO
6.- I so… where it will be located?
7.- Can you elavorate a bit more, the usage and effects of “set g_bNewChallengeRatingCode 0”?
8.- Is the used syntax correct for the BattalionSupplyAttritionTime 6? YES/NO
9.- Does it has to be located in an specific area of the AII file (the ones like [xxxxx] )? YES/NO
10.- Is so… where?
11.- Can you elavorate a bit more, the usage and effects of “BattalionSupplyAttritionTime 6”?
I really need you guys to cast some light on this. POH camp was going spectacullar… Many different starting situations every time you start a new campaign (from up to 12 different initial beachheads, and combinations of them on folowing waves), random evolution between áreas (Portugal, Spain west, center, east) according to the ground battle evolution… special events like island assault (again, random between Canary, Baleares, or Portuguese islands, but logically linked to the war in the mainland)… naval assaults… never stalling units, taking almost all objetives, and giving the real feel of a FULL Invasión… It looked great… and now it just don´t work even at basic basic level.
(basic test is done only with ground stock batallions of M1A1 and Leopard 2 batallions… nothing more that this for basic test… and I´m talking about a very limited amount of batallions… 20-30 in total… so it is not a huge army (again, for the basic test… which is not even working)… It Works flawlessly on U1…
I´ll keep fighting the system… but BMS help is really needed and apreciated.
Mystic_J last edited by
Could you post your save0.tri file?
Could you post your save0.tri file?
Thanks again for your will to help. Still, will it be usable without the rest of the DB and Theatre?
I mean, Korea DB will not have same Objectives, nor the Squadrons… and specially, the Campaign itself is almost nothing without the TRI.
If so… I´ll try to clean it up, as I really don´t want to show yet the goodies introduced on POH… later on I hope more people will use them to enhance other great and already in use Campaigns (Aegean, Balkans, Israel,…). With a Little bit of imagination you can do wonders applying some of this techniques…
If I “mutilate” the Campaign to share it… it posibly wont work/show the problems I´m facing here trying to move/migrate to U2.
Maybe you can suggest me to look after something. All Links (the ones used so far, because the north part of Spain and France has not been overviewed yet, as there is no fight there) are manually done. Some links have a specific use, not only to make the gound units movement posible… As I stated, all of this worked on U1. Maybe you will look into other stuff (unknown for me, hidden on the multiple tabs) inside TACEDIT or MC… Just tell me, and I´ll do my best to provide it to you.
I really hate this secretism… beleive… hate it so much. But, still I want to finish this work as promised to POH Team… so I´m gonna keep fighting the system a bit more. (This happened before when we moved to 4.33, and for sure will happen again)… I just need a few simple clarifications about what I feel, is affecting the POH campaign… to begin with: new SUPPLY Core. Thus, the 81% simple questions I wrote before (19% need some explanations).
I see everyday, here in BMS fórums some marvellous explanations from seniors members and BMS Developers… Hope I´ll get some sort of answers, so I can keep fighting the system, but better armed (knowledge).
Arty last edited by
well agalnov I hate this secreitism as you are. But I don’t think it’s secreitism only.
The theater dev info tips and tricks are on the minds of some ppl and some lost in old erased non existing forums posts.
As we talk about the need of a compatibility tool for theaters database to catch up with BMS release the same way theater dev’s need more info on many aspects of the massive campaign engine and it’s whereabouts.
The guys that still have the info on their minds either give the info by ts or keep it to them selfs cause they are bored or dont have the time to go through writing endless guides. wrong but you can’t force anyone. They lost their time they fount out some they provided and that’s respectful from the user side aspect.
If http://tactical.nekromantix.com/ was or go down I’m sure no new efforts will surface.
The thing is that we don’t start it (like a wiki or articles here in this forum) and kinda force the dev’s and knowledgeable ppl to pay some more attention and help on this serious project and leave a legacy for future generations.
The theater dev’s section is straggling, and the thing is that without this knowledge we can;t really enjoy the extend of this marvelous perfect bogus our never dying sim.
So have courage and spend time to find the issues.
Break down the situation take one small step at a time, observe and when you are sure how it works move to the next step. I know hell… but…
Enormous amount of time.
To tell you the truth I’m starting to get tired… real life not allowing enough spare time and at the same time needing most of the time to search and you get burned before you actually start producing… well I hope it’s a cycle and soon things will come around.
Thanks to you Arty, as well.
Be sure that I will keep fighting the machine as long as I have brain, eyes, and hands to let me test and test.
About my tips. They will soon available. In a smaller scale (as POH is still in Beta development… and I just wanted a smaller workable versión of the final thing available the sooner the better…so others can use them), but most, if not all, will be there and reachable for everybody. And for sure, I will elaborate what and how… as some of the tricks will be visible, but no easy to “re-produce” without the proper steps.
Anyway, and back to the topic… We did, are, and will discuss about this “fog of knowledge” forever… but I´d really want to keep this thread as much away from it, not deviating from the main purpose: Direct Support from the ones that know what was changed in U2 regarding (initially) the Core Supply code… and at least find a first walkaround my problems while at the same time, find a solution to adapt to the new and forecoming updates.
So back to the post #6. . .
Big time thanks, mates…
While I still wait hoping to get an answer, I think I came to a point that allows me to continue.
- Using the new lines to dissable new things, and revert to old supply code… by inserting it on the Config was not really the way… as it will affect other Campaign.
- My trials ended up confirming that New code Works, and using the line to revert to old code doesn´t… or at least, it doesn´t work as in U1.
- I find out that I need to use unexpected HUGE values to keep my units alive. I´m talking about using this on the TRI file: #SET_MINIMUM_SUPPLIES 6 95000 95000 95000
With this amount it was able to survive 4-5 days… Injecting it from time to time, will keep it up as needed.
- Now that Supply is really Evolving, and that I can recover it to Usable values at will, I can foresee a wider use of this element into POH or any other campaign.
To DEVs, please… this allows me to keep going… by now… Still, I keep my fingers crossed expecting some hints or answers to my questions. There is so much to know about supplies!
Another happy landing… lets see what else U2 has for me… SHE (as Old tired Demmer would say) is always full of surprises.
Nuno Santos last edited by
Brother, right now I would very much like to have the ability to read some people’s minds and help you out on this road, but this is way out of my league…
Let’s just have some faith and wait for the guru Devs to give us a little push here.
Meanwhile, as someone uses to say…Keep it up!!!
I’m sure you’ll figure out this one also!