Fox 3 Close
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Hello,
Can you fire the Aim-120 Amraam in Dogfight mode in the real F16? Sometimes a bandit gets within 10 miles and I only have Aim-120’s left. I switch to dogfight mode to acquire the target, then switch back to MRM mode to fire the Amraam.
I have seen pictures of F16’s carrying 5 Aim 120’s and only 1 heater or 6 Aim 120’s. Is the heater (Aim-9) really needed if we can fire the Aim-120 at close range? I know the Rmin on the Aim-9 is closer but I don’t see much of a difference.
Thank you
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the aim-9x can fire off boresight while the 120 can’t. That is huge in a knife fight imo and the reason I always carry a mix. I do though miss being able to carry 4 120’s and4 9’s like you could in falcon 3.0.
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Hello,
Can you fire the Aim-120 Amraam in Dogfight mode in the real F16? Sometimes a bandit gets within 10 miles and I only have Aim-120’s left. I switch to dogfight mode to acquire the target, then switch back to MRM mode to fire the Amraam.
I have seen pictures of F16’s carrying 5 Aim 120’s and only 1 heater or 6 Aim 120’s. Is the heater (Aim-9) really needed if we can fire the Aim-120 at close range? I know the Rmin on the Aim-9 is closer but I don’t see much of a difference.
Thank you
While it might not make a huge difference for high aspect, the min range is very noticeable at lower aspect angles. The key principle of BFM being to maximise survivability while minimising Time-To-Kill, if you have no heaters you are going to be anchored against that bandit for longer.
Seeing as folks in BMS are a fan of Self Escort Strike missions, its probably worthwhile to always carry 1 heater. I could see my way clear to carrying 2, if we were more constricted by realities such as RoEs and the CID matrix.
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Rmin is still applicable to fire the 120, but what you are probably doing, is picking him up in bore mode by switching to DFGT and switching back to MRM while just inside the parameters of the 120. This even works if switching out of DFGT mode altogether and going back to A-A mode. Once the lock is acquired, it is kept when switching through the A-A/Dog Fight modes. Whether this is true in the real jet, I cannot say. But this is what I have experienced in BMS.
While flying in the sim, I have found it quite useful to use this method if I have a talley on the bandit but no lock and out of heaters…as long as I can get him to stay out far enough in front of me to be able to use the long stick.
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You can fire them in DGFT also. Long press NWS to switch between missile types, but if you have no heaters and do have MRMs then it will switch to them for you.
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you can use 120s in a dogfight in combination with vertical extension (yoyo, etc) but the min range is a factor and they don’t maneuver as well as 9x do.
you also lose the offboresight so you have to commit to semi-risky maneuvers instead of just zapping them with the insane HOB of 9x.
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You can fire them in DGFT also. Long press NWS to switch between missile types, but if you have no heaters and do have MRMs then it will switch to them for you.
+1
you can use 120s in a dogfight in combination with vertical extension (yoyo, etc) but the min range is a factor and they don’t maneuver as well as 9x do.
you also lose the offboresight so you have to commit to semi-risky maneuvers instead of just zapping them with the insane HOB of 9x.
+1
Things I didn’t mention and/or did not explain well enough.
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@Cik:
you can use 120s in a dogfight in combination with vertical extension (yoyo, etc) but the min range is a factor and they don’t maneuver as well as 9x do.
Better than the 9M though
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Other important point in dogfights, the heaters are looked only on one target, if they loose that they are loose.
120s are able to look a new target after loosing the original one, bad for you if that is friendly. -
Other important point in dogfights, the heaters are looked only on one target, if they loose that they are loose.
120s are able to look a new target after loosing the original one, bad for you if that is friendly.There has been some dispute over that on these forums.
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Yep, I recently got shot down by an AI wingman when I accidentally got in between their 120 and the bandit.
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heaters might also reaquire random target in their FOV. but they will usually have less smash to chase it down
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There has been some dispute over that on these forums.
After being engaged by a Four ship MiG-23 and calling for back-up. At one point, was buddy spiked by friendly CAP. Personally had to go defensive on an Active Missile warning from the RWR. Wingman got downed by our supposed “Back-up”. MiGs never once fired at me.
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There has been some dispute over that on these forums.
i’ve had dozens of heaters hit friendlies after being fired at hostiles (hostile nose on, fire, sweeps 30 degrees right and nails a friendly… thanks 9x)
but there’s no dispute 120s do it too. i’ve had aim120s pitbull on me after killing hostiles nearby, friendlies maddog onto me when shooting when i’m in turn with bandits, 120s pitbull on the wrong target when shooting into close quarters and on and on and on.
the 9x problem seems to have gone away in 4.33, but 120s are still the most dangerous thing in the sky to friend or foe. personally, i never launch one unless the only thing in front of me in a 20 degree cone as far as i can see are hostile. i like my rank thank you very much.
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After being engaged by a Four ship MiG-23 and calling for back-up. At one point, was buddy spiked by friendly CAP. Personally had to go defensive on an Active Missile warning from the RWR. Wingman got downed by our supposed “Back-up”. MiGs never once fired at me.
and yes, friendly AI often does this. they really cut loose when shooting, so they’ll fire 10 AMRAAMs at a two-ship in turn with a bandit and then 3 missiles pitbull onto every target in the group and waste you. unfortunately, often you can win fights with a -23/-29 only to get shot down by your own sides’ MRMs.
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heaters might also reaquire random target in their FOV. but they will usually have less smash to chase it down
Thanks uri, i missed this one.
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There has been some dispute over that on these forums.
To clarify - the dispute in question was not over whether 120s will track targets other than intended - that is a common enough occurrence that I figured that would be clear to everyone. Guess not.
The only way to be safe from a -120 is to be clear of its seeker FOV for the entire ToF. If that cannot be ensured for friendlies, then you just fire and accept the consequences, if the alternative is a friendly getting shot down.
While Ive not seen a heater ever go for a target other than the one I uncaged it onto, there have been claims of such, hence my comment.
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While Ive not seen a heater ever go for a target other than the one I uncaged it onto, there have been claims of such, hence my comment.
There definitively used to be a bug there (although not very common), but it was fixed in 4.33U2.
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While Ive not seen a heater ever go for a target other than the one I uncaged it onto, there have been claims of such, hence my comment
and we have pictures and vids to prove it
Red Dog
Reality if for ppl who can't handle simulation -
Can you share them Red Dog?
