Seriously impressed!
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Agree. So, what do you need? Your HOTAS is pretty popular, have you checked that subforum?
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?52-Saitek
I used the link and saw what was there, but have not had time to sit in front of my controls. I’ve been on my iPad while reading the thread. I am going to try to get some time this evening. I’ve got 5 acres of property and chores to get ready for winter months. I will get to it ASAP.
I went to the link and looked through it. I didn’t realize the last post on that thread was 2012. I went through the beginning steps in the DX profile and got confused after it started talking about numbers and code. I don’t understand the computer codes that are entered in these files.
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I think something is forgotten along the way. Spending hours, days, years to learn is what makes the simulator fun and satisfying. I liked to set my HOTAS to be a good compromise between reality and effectiveness. I liked to read, try, learn and fail because I have a feeling of self-progression, and most of all, the feeling there is a still a lot of room and time to improve. I’m not doing it because it is how the job is supposed to be done. I already have my lot of that every day. If “bad sides” are nothing more than “bad sides”, then I suppose we already all have our own to deal with.
If, or as soon as, BMS is not a source of enjoyment anymore, it should be let aside for some time. And certainly not be a pretext to yell at the team.
OP, taking this opportunity to suggest that you link your apologies on top of your very first post. New readers miss them, and they’re worth the read.
I agree. I would be interested in how much people read the manuals/related documentation compared to flying the Sim. For me the advantage is that I can read the manuals in the commute, and then when life allows me I can fly. It does feel like homework though sometimes…
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I often feel like I dont get enough flying time. I would estimate I have spent between five and ten times as much time reading manuals and documents related to fighter aviation, as I have flying BMS. That is with a logbook time of more than 600 hours of BMS - though note that is air time, wheels up to wheels down, rather than the 3D time which is logged by BMS’ logbook.
There is just so much stuff to study about aerial combat. Even just four key manuals that I go back to repeatedly take so much time (AFTTP3-3.5, P-825, 1F-16CM-1, and 1F-16CM-34-1-1). Then you add in supporting documents such as the AFI 11 series instructions, and it keeps adding up…
Its not really felt like homework to me. Reading about intercepts for example, or the fuel system in the viper for another, has always felt like its own reward.
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I often feel like I dont get enough flying time. I would estimate I have spent between five and ten times as much time reading manuals and documents related to fighter aviation, as I have flying BMS. That is with a logbook time of more than 600 hours of BMS - though note that is air time, wheels up to wheels down, rather than the 3D time which is logged by BMS’ logbook.
There is just so much stuff to study about aerial combat. Even just four key manuals that I go back to repeatedly take so much time (AFTTP3-3.5, P-825, 1F-16CM-1, and 1F-16CM-34-1-1). Then you add in supporting documents such as the AFI 11 series instructions, and it keeps adding up…
Its not really felt like homework to me. Reading about intercepts for example, or the fuel system in the viper for another, has always felt like its own reward.
+1
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about the printed manuals from Tiffy. Are they worth getting, or does the manual change often enough that it would be like one in the Army, constantly adding and removing pages.
I would recommend uploading the documentation to Google Drive or some other cloud based storage so you can access them on a tablet or via web browser from anywhere. I have them in my Google Drive as well as in Acrobat Reader for the tablet. Searching the PDFs is much faster than flipping through the paper manual. I think it’s also less intimidating than staring at a series of manuals 3 inches thick. On the tablet you can also adjust the brightness or flip to white on black text which might be easier on your eye(s). The money for printing and binding the manuals would be better spent getting TrackIR or another headtracking system, upgrading your monitor, or for a donation to a BMS charity. I regularly fly with my tablet in front of me as an electronic knee board. You can have airbase radio freqs and TACAN channels right there, or if you’re dedicated a full mission card. Also if you’re in a single player Tactical Engagement it is easy to freeze the sim (shift-P) and fiddle with the avionics in real time while referencing the training documentation (I wouldn’t recommend freezing the sim in the campaign as strange things might happen). This is a great way to learn as you reinforce what you’re reading by doing things in the pit and getting instant feedback.
For your monitor, BMS is very flexible at displaying various resolutions and aspect ratios. Whatever settings are available for Windows, you can choose for BMS. You’re going to want to use every one of those pixels. If it’s still showing a strange aspect ratio or squishing the image, check the on-monitor controls for something wonky.
I think the MFDs are about 5" square in real life. There’s apparently a good web site at www.xflight.de/pe_org_doc.htm . My work blocks non-US domains so I can’t check it out now.
Good luck,
-Rabbit
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I would recommend uploading the documentation to Google Drive or some other cloud based storage so you can access them on a tablet or via web browser from anywhere
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?23315-BMS-4-33-Documentation
thanks for the recommendation, but the docs are available in paper from lulu, in pdf from the link above and they are as well placed in your doc folder
I could add them to a dozen other media, but ppl will still look for them anyway.
So i believe the 3 ways offered currently are already enough and hard to maintain for the doc team !
btw, 2 of the 3 way already offered allow PDF and tablet reading, so you are covered - you don’t need google drive -
I talked my wife into letting me ‘borrow’ our 35" security monitor to be able to see better. I still have my w1907 monitor as well.
I have put all (Ithink) the manuals on both of my tablets. I just emailed them to myself so I would have the same on all devices.One issue I see already is that the resolutions are going to give me an issue the 35" will work for my main screen til we get our new TV, then I will have a 55" flight monitor.
I’m not a programmer by any means so I will take all the advice I can get. To destress I tried a flight in F4AF, but I can’t control what screen it comes up on. Do you, or anyone reading this know how to control what screen I want to use?
If I could get the HDMI cable in the plug in on my video card I could have 3 monitors, basically having 2 19" MFD’s.Is there someone I can pick thier brain on this aas I have many questions and I’m embarrased about the title of this thread.
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I’m fairly certain the moderators would allow you to start a new topic.
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Many, many years ago I used the Falcon 4.0. But the resolution was low.
My Thrustmaster F22 Pro, and the TQS throttle and the FCLS foot pedals I have sold, because with the newer faster computers, without DOS, it is hard calibrating them, with the 25 pins plug.
But now with the BMS it is a feast again. It is really an enormous improvement. I have bought again a Thrustmaster joystick.
The original Falcon4.0 CD got lost in a fire, but I could download the version now. Luckily I still have the very big manual.
On the backside it has printed Microprose.
I know a lot of flight sims software (my first was on the Sinclair 48K Spectrum) but I never saw a Falcon by Atari.
I was the first who imported the Sublogic Flight Simulator for the Commodore 64 in the Netherlands.
Looking at Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX and the X-Plane 10.50, the Falcon BMS 4.33 is an tremendous good sim. A very good well-done job! -
No, but microprose did not survive long after F4.0 was released. Their IP was sold off, and for a while Atari was the owner of the F4.0 IP. Recently this has changed, and now Retrosim is the owner of the IP. Folks have been using Tommo interchangeably, as Tommo owns Retrosim.
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I’m embarrased about the title of this thread.
It is nice to see a FNG that took the responses to the OP in stride and noticed that you were the one in error. That has been the bane of many a FNG is to get frustrated and instead of asking for help or asking what you are doing wrong to lash out and blame the sim. Have seen that happen SO many times and it gets old since we can just look at the post and start counting up the ways in which the poster FUBAR’d.
To any FNGs reading this post PLEASE don’t attempt to take out your frustrations in a post like the first one as you will get hammered and rightfully so. ASK for help and it gets given. Blame the sim for your lack of knowledge? I’m getting out the popcorn.
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I think I was just having a bad day. I spent too long in the military with multiple deployments to not recognize when I don’t know something. As I understand my lack of knowledge on this sim, I am trying to get instructions and help from this community.
I have the manuals and have printed out the Falcon BMS Keyboard Layout (QWERTY/US Int.) but I’m not sure where to find the the .pr0 file that goes with the layout. I tried the X52.pr0 profile and didn’t see anything in it.
And yes, I have been looking through the forums.
I’m not a programmer and I don’t understand the DX file system. It sounds like it is supposed to be easy, but I don’t understand running the file lines into the DX numbers.
Since a lot of the comments I’m seeing are a couple years old I’m not sure if I can get reply’.I have also gone back to flying F4 while I’m doing my studying BMS Falcon. I do know I need a lot more flight hours. I see most of the senior members have been on this for years and with the vids I’ve watched are great flying.
I looked at the BMS Viperdrivers and realized how much I really, really don’t know.I will continue to strive to be a sim pilot sometime down the line, but I do need help.
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….
I have the manuals and have printed out the Falcon BMS Keyboard Layout (QWERTY/US Int.) but I’m not sure where to find the the .pr0 file that goes with the layout. I tried the X52.pr0 profile and didn’t see anything in it.
And yes, I have been looking through the forums.
I’m not a programmer and I don’t understand the DX file system. It sounds like it is supposed to be easy, but I don’t understand running the file lines into the DX numbers.
Since a lot of the comments I’m seeing are a couple years old I’m not sure if I can get reply’. …John, it sounds like you’re confusing two different things that may, or may not, work together depending how you’re setting up your HOTAS and Keyboard. The default keyboard layout IS a DX layout …. keys are mapped directly to BMS commands and will work without a Saitek pr0 file.
The *.pr0 file is a Saitek profile file. It is, usually, user created. It basically acts as an interface between and input device (like a joystick) and a program (like BMS) to virtually press keys on the keyboard. It is a keyboard emulation program. For instance, you pull the trigger, the Saitek profile sees that ‘pull trigger = press F’ (what equals what is the info in pr0 file) so it sends a keyboard ‘F’ to BMS. The BMS keyboard layout has the ‘Fire Gun’ command associated with the ‘F’ key and the gun fires.
With DX you ‘cut out the middle man’. You link the trigger directly to the ‘Fire Gun’ command. Pull the trigger, the gun fires. No 3rd party key emulator; no virtual key press on the keyboard.
In any case, a command (called a ‘callback’) has to associated with an action (pressing a keyboard key or a HOTAS button/switch). This is the actual, proper ‘Fire Gun’ callback: SimTriggerSecondDetent.
Depending on your need, there can be a time where you ‘mix and match’ Saitek programming (pr0 file) with BMS programming (DX). The kinds of setups run the gamut from nearly 100% Saitek to run the HOTAS to 100% DX to run the HOTAS … and many mixed variations in between. It depends on personal need and preferences.
All of this together … the association of BMS commands to the HOTAS and the keyboard … comprise your keyfile.
What keyfile are you currently using and have you made or downloaded a pr0 file? I strongly recommend going with a keyfile that someone has made and shared. Start with that as a basis for customization. There should be several X52 keyfiles available.
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It is worthwhile to appreciate the entire chain from button to result which has a few links. Some middle links in the chain are configurable by joystick software, device sorting, or the .key file.
For example:
Press Button A
Saitek SST Software produces a keyboard “B” keystroke
BMS user’s key file interprets a “B” keystroke as being callback SimEjectResult: Button A = SimEject
A different example:
Press Button A
Saitek drivers or SST assign a DirectX button output
BMS modifies the button number based on which device number it is to produce a globally unique button number
BMS user’s key file interprets a button number (e.g. 56) to the callback SimEjectResult: Button A = SimEject
The major lesson is that the SST (or any joystick) software shapes the output and the .key file translates that output into sim action. They cooperate and are made to match so that what one is throwing the other is catching. “When I press this button, give this output” says the joystick software and “when I see this joystick output, I will trigger this sim action” says the key file. There exist .pr0 files and .key files that come as matching sets which should just work out of the box.
The one caveat to this is if the key file is expecting your joystick to be buttons 1-32 and they are 33-64 or 65-96 that just means BMS is taking your joystick as device #2 or #3 or #4. Devices are assigned blocks of 32 buttons. The devicesorting.txt file prioritizes device number assignments simply by the order top-to-bottom the devices are listed.
Now you absolutely don’t have to understand the key file format unless you get into the more advanced tweaking. To modify which input is associated with a command you simply highlight the callback in the list you want to set then press the joystick button. This works both for keystroke-emulation output or DirectX button output. Highlight, press, highlight, press, highlight, press… that’s it.
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It is worthwhile to appreciate the entire chain from button to result which has a few links. Some middle links in the chain are configurable by joystick software, device sorting, or the .key file.
For example:
Press Button A
Saitek SST Software produces a keyboard “B” keystroke
BMS user’s key file interprets a “B” keystroke as being callback SimEjectResult: Button A = SimEject
A different example:
Press Button A
Saitek drivers or SST assign a DirectX button output
BMS modifies the button number based on which device number it is to produce a globally unique button number
BMS user’s key file interprets a button number (e.g. 56) to the callback SimEjectResult: Button A = SimEject
The major lesson is that the SST (or any joystick) software shapes the output and the .key file translates that output into sim action. They cooperate and are made to match so that what one is throwing the other is catching. “When I press this button, give this output” says the joystick software and “when I see this joystick output, I will trigger this sim action” says the key file. There exist .pr0 files and .key files that come as matching sets which should just work out of the box.
The one caveat to this is if the key file is expecting your joystick to be buttons 1-32 and they are 33-64 or 65-96 that just means BMS is taking your joystick as device #2 or #3 or #4. Devices are assigned blocks of 32 buttons. The devicesorting.txt file prioritizes device number assignments simply by the order top-to-bottom the devices are listed.
Now you absolutely don’t have to understand the key file format unless you get into the more advanced tweaking. To modify which input is associated with a command you simply highlight the callback in the list you want to set then press the joystick button. This works both for keystroke-emulation output or DirectX button output. Highlight, press, highlight, press, highlight, press… that’s it.
Or you just follow my advice of a 20 years falcon simmer and developer and you never ever touch your keystroke in BMS
Assuming you have a joystick with a programming software , the job must be done in your external software so that the correspondence between you buttons and the BMS keyfile matches . This is the purpose of those software : avoid changing the game default keystroke.
Imagine keystroke of BMS beeing Non editable and program your joystick like if it was .
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……I am not using this as an excuse, but to let you know a small bit about me. I was injured in an IED blast in May 2007 in Ramadi, Iraq…
If somebody already said it then my apologies, but thank you for your sacrifice sir, wishing you well in your recovery.
As to BMS then once you are comfortable with your HOTAS and controls setup then there are some excellent training videos by Krause (I am sure that he did not read all the posts before his reply) but the Brits can make movies too and Supanova has created some superb training videos which are more recent and BMS 4.33 centric - check out his YouTube channel and I am sure that you will not be disappointed
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Or you just follow my advice of a 20 years falcon simmer and developer and you never ever touch your keystroke in BMS
No thanks I want a good control config instead
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No thanks I want a good control config instead
You don’t need to touch anything to get the real f16 Hotas configuration
Why would you need more ? And besides , please explain why do you need to touch the keystroke instead of programming your joystick ? Please explain because after all those years I still don’t get it
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You don’t need to touch anything to get the real f16 Hotas configuration
Why would you need more ? And besides , please explain why do you need to touch the keystroke instead of programming your joystick ? Please explain because after all those years I still don’t get it
If I may, for my part, it’s a matter of habit with sims I’ve been playing for 20 years. A command list that was responding to revamp straight from the UI was the quickest and easiest way to obtain what I needed, especially when I wanted to go back to my pdf and virtual cockpit as soon as I could. I started to build my X52 HOTAS settings from that point and reached a satisfactory setup in the end. If there is a flaw in the method that will harm my experience, then it is the thing that I don’t get, just as well as many others, obviously. But I wouldn’t want you to rewrite what you already elaborated earlier here, I have read it already and it must be just me.
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You don’t need to touch anything to get the real f16 Hotas configuration
Why would you need more ? And besides , please explain why do you need to touch the keystroke instead of programming your joystick ? Please explain because after all those years I still don’t get it
It should be well-known the benefits of not using keystroke emulation. I can give examples:
1. I don’t want if a cat jumps on my keyboard that my landing gear can ever come down.
2. I wanted to make “F” press the F-ACK button.
3. If I am typing in chat and I press uncage button I don’t want it to put “U” in my message.
4. I want to use the SimHotasPinkyShift function.
5. I want to press UHF transmit and TMS up at the same time.Middleman keyboard joystick emulation might give fast results but it has drawbacks: key collisions, taking up the keyboard from other functions, able to accidentally be pressed on keyboard. Keystroke emulation without editing the default key file is acceptable for most people with most desires most of the time. But editing the key file and/or using DirectX direct binding in places simply allows you to do more things than if you forbid yourself from doing it.