No HARMs and Mavericks in ITO v0.99!
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I’m currently playing the first campaign (the one against Syria) in Israel Theater v0.99 but no F-16 version (F-16i, F-16i CFT, F-16C-30, F-16C-40, F-16A-15, etc…) and squadron and any other Israeli aircraft for that matter does have or can be equipped with the HARM and/or Maverick missiles!
Why is that so?
This is weird since in real life Israeli F-16s do carry the HARM missile (at least the F-16i does) and Maverick missiles (if I’m not mistaken all Israeli F-16 versions carry the Maverick).Thanks in advance for replies.
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This is weird since in real life Israeli F-16s do carry the HARM missile (at least the F-16i does) and Maverick missiles (if I’m not mistaken all Israeli F-16 versions carry the Maverick).
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Israel does not have the Harm missile.
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Israel does have some Maverick variants, but I don’t recall ever to have seen one loaded in any version of F-16, and my db-reference for IAF is huge.
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If I remember well, IAF’s F-16s can carry AGM-65 and AGM-88, but aren’t used because HARMs were never bought and Mavericks were carried only on F-4s in SEAD role during the wars against Syria and Egypt.
Raptor please correct me if I’m wrong. -
The answer is in the IAF -1-2 viper manuals that describe the loadouts, but since these are somewhat classified
we can’t actually tell if IAF paid to purchase and install the weapons software but not the missiles themselves. So since no Harms in their inventory, and no loaded Maverick photos available, the answer is clear. -
Thanks for the replies.
But according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM
Israel do possess the HARM in their inventories.I know that 's a Wikipedia site which much be taken with a “grain of salt” but digging a bit more I found this news from July 2013 in which it seems that Israel ordered or it’s imminent an order by Israel of HARM missiles for the Israel Air Force:
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2013/07/01/Israel-seeks-50B-in-US-loans-to-buy-arms/UPI-49641372706630/
This same site indicates that Israel does possess the AGM-78 Standard missile (and Israel also possess or possessed AGM-45 Shrike missiles) which means that even if Israel still doesn’t have HARM missiles it currently has ARM missiles in their inventory and modeling the HARM in ITO campaigns would IMO:
1- Give HARM capability which Israel will soon have if it doesn’t already have (which is a possibility).
2- Model the current ARM weaponry that Israel currently have (albeit older, the capability is still there).Regarding the AGM-65 Maverick, if IAF F-4 Phantoms have and carry them I don’t see ANY reason why IAF F-16s shouldn’t also have!
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Israel does not have the HARM. At present there are some talks about it but it has not been purchased.
AGM-78 has never been used on F-16s in the IAF.
The AGM-65 used to be carried by IAF F-16s, but this is no longer true (since 1990s at least). -
The answer was given, don’t drag the waters more as Pantera would say. ITO is a very nice and tuned theater and what you see there is what currently exists. If the Harms are purchased and will be operational on the Sufa’s I guess you will see a hotfix sooner or later. But it will take you less than a minute to anytime add yourself the Harm and Mavericks to the variants you want.
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I fly the MLU in this theater. And in Belgium they replaced the AGM-65 with JDAM’s/LGB’s. We have no SEAD capacity, so therefore our tactics are build in accordance to that, and it works in my opinion better to attack tanks or other pieces of ground equipment with LGB’s …. now that we have the GBU-54 in Belgium we are even more flexible
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So we have to develop new campaign tactics for this? My tactics are so very desert storm related… Instead of SEAD strikes we are simply expected to avoid SAMs alltogether? It is possible for me to fly low to try and engage the SAMs with bombs but there are always SA-8s near these sights which will take me down, so engagement is impossible. This is interesting and I will try to apply it.
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I have been doing experiments to figure out how to effectively conduct SEAD without HARMs or Mavericks. In the northern campaign there is a US carrier group in the Med with F/A-18s that you can task with SEAD if you like–I may try this myself at some point. But mostly I try to avoid SAMs altogether. The catch is that there are SA-6 sites right near the FLOT, making CAS a bit hairy. Best thing I have found to do against the SA-6 is to go in with music on and use the TGP to ID the Straight Flush, make a markpoint, then drop GBU-38s from 33,000’ and ~10nm out then get the hell out. The only remaining issue is enemy aircraft, which I am trying to deal with by fragging DCA and Sweeps in northern Israel before I try to take out SAMs.
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@The:
So we have to develop new campaign tactics for this? My tactics are so very desert storm related… Instead of SEAD strikes we are simply expected to avoid SAMs alltogether? It is possible for me to fly low to try and engage the SAMs with bombs but there are always SA-8s near these sights which will take me down, so engagement is impossible. This is interesting and I will try to apply it.
Related discussions here:
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?17287-Israel-Theater-0-99-Release&p=248754&viewfull=1#post248754
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?17392-SA-6-SEAD-without-standoff-weapons -
Well they do have some Apache’s there to clear the route…
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Israel does not have the HARM. At present there are some talks about it but it has not been purchased.
AGM-78 has never been used on F-16s in the IAF.
The AGM-65 used to be carried by IAF F-16s, but this is no longer true (since 1990s at least).Thanks for the reply Echo7, that really clarified things on my part, specially regarding the Mavericks (which I was sure that they were carried by IAF F-16s at some point - at least in the 80’s).
The answer was given, don’t drag the waters more as Pantera would say. ITO is a very nice and tuned theater and what you see there is what currently exists. If the Harms are purchased and will be operational on the Sufa’s I guess you will see a hotfix sooner or later. But it will take you less than a minute to anytime add yourself the Harm and Mavericks to the variants you want.
I “drag the waters” as I see fit which is until I get a reply that satisfies and clarifies my doubts which was the case of Echo7’s reply.
BTW, how can I edit ITO campaigns (or others) so that I can add Mavericks for example (or HARMs) to particular squadrons or aircraft?
I would really appreciate a reply on this regard since I’m not familiarized with Falcon4 editing. Thanks in advance. -
Hi,everybody
i found these informations and i’m wonder if it’s possible to modelise those weapons in
IT-BMS,what are you thinking about? Python5,Derby,Spice,Popeye and some others perhaps? i’m thinking about bombs like BLU-107 Durandal but israelian version more effective to destroy runwaysIt appears that those weapons are destinated for F-16 IAF!
Is it a bad idea?
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/9/1189.pdf
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/8/1188.pdf
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_STORAGE/FILES/4/924.pdf
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/332-892-en/Marketing.aspx -
I am on this road exactly, I will post news if I manage to succeed with the project.
BTW,
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I am on this road exactly, I will post news if I manage to succeed with the project.
BTW,
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/Suf.jpg
In our falcon community we really have inspired man!
Many thanks to RAPTOR for his future work;
By the way against egyptian’s F-16 we really need operationnal IFF,because on radar MFD the are so many
aircrafts that impossible to call “Declare” for each one which seems suspect.
It appears a very low priority,said Dee-Jay…But with Israel theater it’s a another matter. -
Regarding the Python 5, SPICE and other advanced GPS / optical wepaons, they can’t be modeled well with current code which is why we chose not to add them yet. We are however working on this, you’ll need to wait a little for future BMS versions…
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So no BLU-107’s either? Also even if you can’t 100% model the Zephyr/Python5 fully why not use the regular A-A 120 setup for it or similar in the mean time.
I find it impossible to believe Israel would not have these weapons on hand for the F16 if a real war broke out right now and someone high in the CoC decided the F16’s need them. (surely the stock is there, and it’s not like an F16 can’t drop Durandals)
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(1) CFT Vipers are butt ugly
(2) If you fly Block50/52 will can have the full array of weapons. -
But it will take you less than a minute to anytime add yourself the Harm and Mavericks to the variants you want.
In F4Browse, correct? Is there any trickiness about the pylons/weapons pairings? And then you have to add stores to the squadrons at the airbases in TacEdit, right?
It might be nice, if it isn’t too much work, to have a “Playground” option in ITO Config which would put back all the BMS weapons for F16s, at least until we can get Popeye, Spice, Delilah, etc. I’m all for realism, but no F16 SEAD missions is not realistic, it seems to me. Waiting for US F/A-18 SEAD sorties, given today’s political climate, is flat-out antirealism.
What would be very cool is to find a way to spoof the BMS code in order to “model” an ECW control-insertion into the enemy’s IADS / C3I. Then invite some guys to play OPFOR in ITO Theater and watch the fireworks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suter_%28computer_program%29
Best regards!
