Laser permanently lasing after short manual lase
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[SOLVED] - See I-Hawk’s later post on Page 2
Hi everyone, I have a random issue with BMS and I am not sure whether it is keyfile (using X55-BMS4.33-Snelle-5.5-NS, no sound) or BMS (4.33 U3) that is causing the issue. I’ve noticed that in the Tactical Engagement LGB tutorial (non ramp start), the laser will permanently lase when the following is done:- Manually lase for a brief amount of time (Trigger + Button D on the x55 with this profile). Stop lasing.
- Continue flight. Drop LGB using CCRP release.
- At this point, regardless of the LASER ST TIME setting, the laser will begin firing as soon as the pickle button is held, and will continue firing indefinitely after pickle button release (Button A on x55).
The laser will never stop firing at this point. Even turning the laser on/off switch will result in the laser continuing firing as soon as it is back online.
If step 1 (a brief manual lase) is omitted, the laser functions as intended, doing the pre-lase when pickling, stopping lasing, and resuming lasing once the LGB is the set amount of seconds before computed impact (LASER ST TIME).
Not sure what the cause of this issue is, hopping you can help out?
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Hi,
I saw the laser getting stuck a couple of times here as well, also with a X-55 so I wonder if it’s a controller problem indeed because e.g no one from my squad reported the same issue. OTOH the laser here is defined as a DX button so I really don’t know. I need to debug it and check in the code what gets stuck, the problem is reproducing the issue as it seems very intermittent. If you get a 100% reproducing method and it’ll work here as well, then I’ll be able to fix it for sure.
Thanx!
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I may have experienced a similar issue using a cougar, but I can’t remember precisely.
Harry (Formerly Amraam at Frugals etc.)
(I'm not currently active with ViperDrivers, but these guys are the best BMS school out there!)
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Tested it 3 times in succession (with on clean reboot and the other two tests with BMS restarts), it is 100% reproducible on my end with the method outlined above. If you need me to send any log files, please let me know where I can find them & I will send them to you right away.
I can link the keyfile as well if you would like. -
OK thanx, I’ll try to reproduce.
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Awesome. Let me know if you need anything from me, happy recording a video of the bug in action as well. Thanks for looking into it.
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it may also greatly depend on how the manual lasing is programmed on ANY hotas ….
Red Dog
Reality if for ppl who can't handle simulation -
@Red:
it may also greatly depend on how the manual lasing is programmed on ANY hotas ….
Here it’s a DX button so I don’t think it should conflict with anything or stay stuck for no reason, right?
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Here it’s a DX button so I don’t think it should conflict with anything or stay stuck for no reason, right?
Did you have any luck reproducing it?
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Here it’s a DX button so I don’t think it should conflict with anything or stay stuck for no reason, right?
Same for me. My setup is 100% Dx mappings, not even using shifted function. Mine may not be the issue, but I do seem to remember a instance or two that match the OPs description. It was a while back and I’m still on U1…
Harry (Formerly Amraam at Frugals etc.)
(I'm not currently active with ViperDrivers, but these guys are the best BMS school out there!)
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Did you have any luck reproducing it?
Well, no. But I may have an idea what’s happening. But for that I need you to tell first which button you are using for manually lase? Because you should use the 1st detent and not the trigger (trigger is the 2nd detent), so let’s start with the easy solution that if you are used to use the trigger with the X-55 in order to fire the laser, then it’s normal that the laser will get stuck because in Falcon logic the 1st detent is still held.
The difference between the X-55 and other controllers (Like X-52 and I suppose the cougar) is simple: Those controllers have a double detent trigger, the X-55 has only single. But Falcon logic is built towards double detent triggers, so the usual functionality will be:
1st detent depressed
2nd detent depressed
2nd detent released
1st detent releasedBut in the X-55 if you are using the trigger (And assuming the trigger is defined as the 2nd detent, as it is here) to manually lase, then naturally when you release the trigger, Falcon will not release the 1st detent so from the sim POV the 1st detent is still held.
I can reproduce this easily anytime:
Manually lase with 2nd detent (Trigger)
Release 2nd detent
Laser keeps firing because from Sim logic the 1st detent was held along with the 2nd detent but was never releasedThat cycle is a normal behavior and actually the problem is with the X-55 HOTAS that doesn’t support double detent trigger (I was very surprised to find that when I bought mine, because the older X-52 did supported that).
However, of course the simple solution is to use the 1st detent in order to fire the laser, this is how it’s used IRL and this is how it should be used anyway.
But, all that said, the original problem that I was talking about, that the laser gets stuck by only holding the 1st detent, that I’ve seen a couple of times and it’s probably not related to the 2nd detent issue which I explained above. I think there is still a bug larking here, although I didn’t hear complains about that, so I thought I was the only one suffering, even though I only use the 1st detent to fire the laser.
FWIW, here I have the 1st detent programed to the Pinky switch of the X-55 stick. This way it gives me the closest feeling to the trigger, but still not the trigger itself.
And, by any case, if you are NOT using the 2nd detent to fire the laser then I will need more info to reproduce becasue I couldn’t do it by using the 1st detent manual lase only, I even tried to mixed, i. used the 2nd detent, then pickled (Pickle will also trigger the laser, that is normal) but then 1st detent will release the laser as usual.
Cheers!
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Well, no. But I may have an idea what’s happening. But for that I need you to tell first which button you are using for manually lase? Because you should use the 1st detent and not the trigger (trigger is the 2nd detent), so let’s start with the easy solution that if you are used to use the trigger with the X-55 in order to fire the laser, then it’s normal that the laser will get stuck because in Falcon logic the 1st detent is still held.
The difference between the X-55 and other controllers (Like X-52 and I suppose the cougar) is simple: Those controllers have a double detent trigger, the X-55 has only single. But Falcon logic is built towards double detent triggers, so the usual functionality will be:
1st detent depressed
2nd detent depressed
2nd detent released
1st detent releasedBut in the X-55 if you are using the trigger (And assuming the trigger is defined as the 2nd detent, as it is here) to manually lase, then naturally when you release the trigger, Falcon will not release the 1st detent so from the sim POV the 1st detent is still held.
I can reproduce this easily anytime:
Manually lase with 2nd detent (Trigger)
Release 2nd detent
Laser keeps firing because from Sim logic the 1st detent was held along with the 2nd detent but was never releasedThat cycle is a normal behavior and actually the problem is with the X-55 HOTAS that doesn’t support double detent trigger (I was very surprised to find that when I bought mine, because the older X-52 did supported that).
However, of course the simple solution is to use the 1st detent in order to fire the laser, this is how it’s used IRL and this is how it should be used anyway.
But, all that said, the original problem that I was talking about, that the laser gets stuck by only holding the 1st detent, that I’ve seen a couple of times and it’s probably not related to the 2nd detent issue which I explained above. I think there is still a bug larking here, although I didn’t hear complains about that, so I thought I was the only one suffering, even though I only use the 1st detent to fire the laser.
FWIW, here I have the 1st detent programed to the Pinky switch of the X-55 stick. This way it gives me the closest feeling to the trigger, but still not the trigger itself.
And, by any case, if you are NOT using the 2nd detent to fire the laser then I will need more info to reproduce becasue I couldn’t do it by using the 1st detent manual lase only, I even tried to mixed, i. used the 2nd detent, then pickled (Pickle will also trigger the laser, that is normal) but then 1st detent will release the laser as usual.
Cheers!
Well, turns out you are absolutely right. I got confused as Snelle’s legend calls the trigger as “1st detente” unshifted, when it is in fact the opposite way around (not pinkyshifted - 2nd detente, shifted with pinkyshift - trigger acts as first detente). As a result, the scenario you were describing above (the 1st detente ‘release’ never occurring upon a 2nd detente trigger press) caused the ‘sticking’ of the laser.
Thank you so much for discovering this, my apologies for not being able to help on the other laser sticking issue. I really appreciate all your time and effort. Thank you so much. -
Sure NP
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How long should the laser fire for after initiating a manual lasing cycle? I guess it should be as per DED setting? I’ve noticed it seems to fire indefinitely after starting it, even after Master Arm off, Laser off, then both back to on it continues to fire.
Warthog stick on full DX with no shifted assignments.
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How long should the laser fire for after initiating a manual lasing cycle? I guess it should be as per DED setting? I’ve noticed it seems to fire indefinitely after starting it, even after Master Arm off, Laser off, then both back to on it continues to fire.
Warthog stick on full DX with no shifted assignments.
Are you also using the trigger to fire? Does the Warthog stick have a double detent trigger? If no then please re-read my long post above, if yes then please show me how to reproduce, maybe this is the bug I’m looking for
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As long as the trigger is being held I think, be it 0.1 second or 100 seconds… like a garden hose. DED setting is for automatic lasing; the trigger is for manual lasing. Warthog stick does have 2 triggers. Button 1 is pressed initially but if it is held down all the way button 1 and button 6 are both input.
Pressing the trigger to the second detent does different behavior that I’m not too familiar with. It does something depending on the AG mode (CCIP or DTOS?) and I’m not sure BMS matches the real plane.
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Are you also using the trigger to fire? Does the Warthog stick have a double detent trigger? If no then please re-read my long post above, if yes then please show me how to reproduce, maybe this is the bug I’m looking for
Hi mate, Warthog has the two-stage trigger, yes. What I am doing is, for example, flying the TR433_11_LGB training mission. While ingressing towards IP I will set up the laser as required (20 seconds, combat, etc.) then when I get to the point of a CCRP release of a single GBU-12, I will pickle and not touch the laser. At 20 seconds to impact, the laser fires and I score a good hit. All is well.
When I go around, I might give myself 15 miles or so to set up another run. Once locked up on TGP, I am inbound. When I get the Loft Cue, I will hit the trigger to start the manual lasing, and it will continue to fire indefinitely except when masked, which I guess is correct. When unmasked, it continues to fire again.
I’ve screen-grabbed my trigger setup, and done you a video (all manual, no auto-lasing to speed things up)…
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As long as the trigger is being held I think, be it 0.1 second or 100 seconds… like a garden hose. DED setting is for automatic lasing; the trigger is for manual lasing. Warthog stick does have 2 triggers. Button 1 is pressed initially but if it is held down all the way button 1 and button 6 are both input.
Pressing the trigger to the second detent does different behavior that I’m not too familiar with. It does something depending on the AG mode (CCIP or DTOS?) and I’m not sure BMS matches the real plane.Yes, I noticed this too - is it possible the BTN6 is getting “stuck on” in the code somehow? That would explain permanent lasing, i.e. if the button was never seen to be released again.
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Well I couldn’t reproduce what you showed
I assume you didn’t hold the trigger throughout the entire vid right? So yes it does remind what I happen to see sometimes that the laser gets stuck, but I couldn’t reproduce. And also in what I used to see, it was without auto lasing (I never use auto lasing) and without touching the 2nd detent.
In your case it seems similar indeed to the 2nd detent getting stuck, but not sure why as you have double trigger on the stick. Here I can get it to stuck only if I press the 2nd detent and release it, because on the X-55 there is no double trigger so in sim logic the 1st detent stays stuck. Can you check in your case what happens if the laser gets stuck and you push the 1st detent and release it?
If there is a bug somewhere then I will find and fix it easily, but I must reproduce the issue first. I can add debug prints locally here to see exactly from which path in the code the laser gets triggered, but without reproducing a stuck laser, it won’t help.
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Well I couldn’t reproduce what you showed
I assume you didn’t hold the trigger throughout the entire vid right? So yes it does remind what I happen to see sometimes that the laser gets stuck, but I couldn’t reproduce. And also in what I used to see, it was without auto lasing (I never use auto lasing) and without touching the 2nd detent.
That’s correct - when I hit the trigger (full press to activate both stages) the laser starts firing, and I release the trigger, it continues.
In your case it seems similar indeed to the 2nd detent getting stuck, but not sure why as you have double trigger on the stick. Here I can get it to stuck only if I press the 2nd detent and release it, because on the X-55 there is no double trigger so in sim logic the 1st detent stays stuck. Can you check in your case what happens if the laser gets stuck and you push the 1st detent and release it?
Yep, can do. Will report back ASAP. IIRC, in the past I have pressed/released both BTN1 and BTN6 quickly in an attempt to have it stop with no joy, but will make a conscious effort to try it.
If there is a bug somewhere then I will find and fix it easily, but I must reproduce the issue first. I can add debug prints locally here to see exactly from which path in the code the laser gets triggered, but without reproducing a stuck laser, it won’t help.
Understood. Thanks for trying anyway. I can live with it, very rare we actually manually lase.
EDIT- As suspected, tapping BTN1 or BTN6 doesn’t clear it.
