QRA is a b*tch

[Planehazza]

Took my first hit in my RF campaign. Russia had just entered the war so I decided to strike first and take out Orang airbase right up North East of the theatre. Give the squadron strength I was expecting resistance but the skies were clear enroute. I was lead of a 4 ship strike, with a 4 ship SEAD 3 mins ahead and an ESCORT 5mins behind.

This was the first flight I properly messed up. Loads of 27s/33s scrambled. I got 2 kills with 3 slammers, whilst #3/#4 went in too close and were downed. #2 never got a shot off and walked out unscathed. I played it stupid and elected to drop only my empty tanks and not the GBUs I was carrying before bugging out. I should have dropped everything, instead I was stupid and ended up losing three airframes and one pilot.

Didn’t help that the escort flight decided to RTB just as they got to the FLOT…

Just to make it worse, upon debrief, China joined in. So now I’m facing a very weakened DPRK, backed up by an angry CIS and PRC mob armed with lots of a MIG29s, Su27, Su33, J11…

I’ve been doing well all campaign, until last night when tiredness got the better of me and I went in guns blazing. Lesson (sorta) learned…

[Eagle-Eye]

Campaigns can be rough once Russia’s in the mix.

Don’t know how much terrain you’ve gained already, but Orang is pretty far, and you’re basically poking a wasp’s nest. Not that surprising that the swarm responds, and that you no longer have the fuel to overcome them all.

That being said, if it works, it’ll definitely be a big blow to the enemy air capacity, but until you can make it there and back again in one piece, it’s easier to meet them in the skies, and squat them one by one. Same result, but over an extended period and more chances of survival…

Also, as a general rule, I’d suggest to change the timings so that ingress order is OCA - SEAD - AI, each spaced by 2-5 minutes, depending on how much/which resistance you’re expecting. That should help clear the airspace for AG flights a bit more than the setup you described.

[Planehazza]

@Eagle-Eye:

Campaigns can be rough once Russia’s in the mix.

Don’t know how much terrain you’ve gained already, but Orang is pretty far, and you’re basically poking a wasp’s nest. Not that surprising that the swarm responds, and that you no longer have the fuel to overcome them all.

That being said, if it works, it’ll definitely be a big blow to the enemy air capacity, but until you can make it there and back again in one piece, it’s easier to meet them in the skies, and squat them one by one. Same result, but over an extended period and more chances of survival…

Also, as a general rule, I’d suggest to change the timings so that ingress order is OCA - SEAD - AI, each spaced by 2-5 minutes, depending on how much/which resistance you’re expecting. That should help clear the airspace for AG flights a bit more than the setup you described.

Yeah that’s it. I knew in my head it was as stupid move, but I was tired and fancied mixing it up a little. I’m assuming by that order, you’re using OCA not as the strike but as the offensive air element, ie an escort/sweep/TARCAP?

I used to have escort going in first, or closely spaced (2min or so as you say) but I remember being told to have escort go in second, so that when the strike flight turn cold on the defensive, the second ‘wave’ of escort are rolling in hot and fast ready to attack the aggressors. Could be wrong, and I’m very poor with tactics/procedures.

[Eagle-Eye]

As terms, our squadron only uses DCA, OCA, SEAD, DEAD, AI and CAS.

• DCA = Defensive Counter Air (in-game: DCA, BARCAP, AmbushCAP)
• OCA = Offensive Counter Air (Escort, Sweep, TARCAP, RESCAP)
• SEAD/DEAD = Suppression / Destruction of Enemy Air Defences (SEAD, DEAD)
• AI = Air Interdiction (Deep strike, Strike, AI, OCA Strike, DEAD)
• CAS = Close Air Support (CAS, On-Call CAS, Pre-planned CAS)
  (I may have forgotten a few in-game roles)

AFAIK, ideally, you would set up a basic package with OCA up front, SEAD trailing, a second OCA in the back and AI somewhere in the middle. Add extra flights in the mix as per operational needs…
That way, you have OCA clear the airspace while SEAD works the ground before AI comes in. The final OCA is the one who keeps eyes on the A-A picture, especially once first OCA is on the cold or defensive leg. Once SEAD has completed their A-G stuff, they could also swing role into an OCA element.

[Planehazza]

@Eagle-Eye:

As terms, our squadron only uses DCA, OCA, SEAD, DEAD, AI and CAS.

• DCA = Defensive Counter Air (in-game: DCA, BARCAP, AmbushCAP)
• OCA = Offensive Counter Air (Escort, Sweep, TARCAP, RESCAP)
• SEAD/DEAD = Suppression / Destruction of Enemy Air Defences (SEAD, DEAD)
• AI = Air Interdiction (Deep strike, Strike, AI, OCA Strike, DEAD)
• CAS = Close Air Support (CAS, On-Call CAS, Pre-planned CAS)
  (I may have forgotten a few in-game roles)

AFAIK, ideally, you would set up a basic package with OCA up front, SEAD trailing, a second OCA in the back and AI somewhere in the middle. Add extra flights in the mix as per operational needs…
That way, you have OCA clear the airspace while SEAD works the ground before AI comes in. The final OCA is the one who keeps eyes on the A-A picture, especially once first OCA is on the cold or defensive leg. Once SEAD has completed their A-G stuff, they could also swing role into an OCA element.

Yeah I get that, and your MP classification makes good sense. I remember AI/Interdiction in original F4 was essentially S&D for tanks. By definition though, Interdiction is “the action of prohibiting or forbidding something” so it makes sense that an AI mission is any form of combat to prevent the enemy advancing (bridge strike, war production, airbase strike).

I would love for one day tanks to take siege of towns realistically. Cities modelled to the level of say ARMA where tanks actually drive through streets etc would be an amazing, but challenge, addition to CAS roles. It would make the planning of preplanned CAS a LOT more detailed and critical. Currently it’s more or less fly to location, find pre briefing tank coloum in TGP, and drop a few rockeyes, or ripple off a few mavs.

Thanks, I’ll try that package style next mission. How often would SEAD flights be tasked as a main goal, rather than protection of a strike flight? Or would that mainly be DEAD if they’re actively going out to attack enemy AD? Or would an E/F-18G Growler doing a jamming flight count as SEAD? I’ve not phrased that question right; I know the difference between SEAD and DEAD, I’m just thinking out loud about why or when a SEAD flight would be tasked rather than assigned to an AI package for protection.

[Blu3wolf]

@Planehazza:

Yeah I get that, and your MP classification makes good sense. I remember AI/Interdiction in original F4 was essentially S&D for tanks. By definition though, Interdiction is “the action of prohibiting or forbidding something” so it makes sense that an AI mission is any form of combat to prevent the enemy advancing (bridge strike, war production, airbase strike).

I would love for one day tanks to take siege of towns realistically. Cities modelled to the level of say ARMA where tanks actually drive through streets etc would be an amazing, but challenge, addition to CAS roles. It would make the planning of preplanned CAS a LOT more detailed and critical. Currently it’s more or less fly to location, find pre briefing tank coloum in TGP, and drop a few rockeyes, or ripple off a few mavs.

Thanks, I’ll try that package style next mission. How often would SEAD flights be tasked as a main goal, rather than protection of a strike flight? Or would that mainly be DEAD if they’re actively going out to attack enemy AD? Or would an E/F-18G Growler doing a jamming flight count as SEAD? I’ve not phrased that question right; I know the difference between SEAD and DEAD, I’m just thinking out loud about why or when a SEAD flight would be tasked rather than assigned to an AI package for protection.

When the goal is taking out strategic surface to air threats. Whether that is suppression or destruction in BMS is not really much more than a discussion point. If you want to take out EW radars, or double digit SAMs, you will be doing that to protect forces in theatre, not a specific flight on station.

[Stubbies2003]

@Planehazza:

Took my first hit in my RF campaign. Russia had just entered the war so I decided to strike first and take out Orang airbase right up North East of the theatre. Give the squadron strength I was expecting resistance but the skies were clear enroute.

I was shaking my head just reading this alone.

Add in CIS you’d better stick to BARCAPs or sweeps for awhile to clear out those serious A-A threats.