CCRP release parameters
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Hi all
I’ve flown two campaign missions with BLU bombs for anti runway. Each time I was at approx 14000ft with the target aquired. I watched the bomb release fall line pass thru the release cue and pickled the bombs but they failed to release.
If everything is not perfectly lined up the bombs won’t release? I assume that as long as you are fairly line up and hit the pickled when the fall line hits the release cue , that the bombs should release?
Thanks
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Hi all
I’ve flown two campaign missions with BLU bombs for anti runway. Each time I was at approx 14000ft with the target aquired. I watched the bomb release fall line pass thru the release cue and pickled the bombs but they failed to release.
If everything is not perfectly lined up the bombs won’t release? I assume that as long as you are fairly line up and hit the pickled when the fall line hits the release cue , that the bombs should release?
Thanks
pickle and hold before the release cue hits the flight path marker.
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BLU-109 Durandal? Release envelope of that weapon is 600 KCAS at 300’ or thereabouts. 14kft is stratospheric by comparison. I can’t guarantee anything when using this weapon so far away from normal parameters.
Is there any problem with normal bomb like MK-82?
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I’ll look tomorrow at what the exact load out for the mission was to make sure about what were the bombs loaded by default.
I haven’t flown anti runway mission with MK 82s but will try and see what happens
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CaptCanada:
I thinnk your main problem was nailed by Blu3wolf. You don’t pickle as the cue hits, what you do is hold the pickle button down and fly through the cue. Once the bomb drops off then and only then do you release the pickle button.
Also, keep in mind on any drop you don’t want to be zigging and zagging. Nice and easy corrections are best. (If ONLY I followed my own advice LOL). One more pointer, if you have pulled too many Gs on your way to the target your bombs might malfunction or just hang on the rail. I keep hearing to try to keep it under 5.5Gs until all your bombs are gone.
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Loft, or level release cue?
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Not sure you can loft BLU?…
I’ve never used them. I don’t know whether both cues will be active regardless.
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I’ve never used them. I don’t know whether both cues will be active regardless.
They actively run, self-propelled, to the runway after being dropped, working like AIR bombs as opposed as LDGB, so their point is a quick pass at very low altitude.
Edit:
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The point is he was releasing them at 14,000 feet. I don’t know how familiar he is with CCRP, but as we know, the loft cue is problematic, and if he’s releasing on the first cue and not the second that might be the issue.
Of course to properly use the weapon he needs to be at low altitude, as you mentioned. And as Blu pointed out, consent is given before reaching the release point.
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The point is he was releasing them at 14,000 feet. I don’t know how familiar he is with CCRP, but as we know, the loft cue is problematic, and if he’s releasing on the first cue and not the second that might be the issue.
Of course to properly use the weapon he needs to be at low altitude, as you mentioned. And as Blu pointed out, consent is given before reaching the release point.
14,000, ok I read 1,400….
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thanks for the replies everyone. I apologize for the brief description of my issues initially, as I was composing it on my Ipad and we all know how intuitive it is to type text on those! LOL.
I was actually at around 10,000 feet when I was dropping the the BLU 109. I don’t use loft bombing, so I was waiting for the second release cue. I have done many successful CCRP drops before, even with the BLU’s so I am not sure what went wrong this time.
The only thing I can think of is maybe it was because the second release cue and the fall line weren’t exactly lined up as the jet was kinda off centre of the target. My speed was not matched up with the caret indicator, not sure if that is important for a successful drop or not?
I normally hit the pickle button at the point where the release cue pass through the flight path marker and around the 5 sec mark. I try it before the release cue passes through the flight path marker and see how that goes.
Any tips on how to do a successful CCIP-CCRP release as well? On each of these missions, I initially started as a CCRP but when that failed I switched to CCIP but it ended up going to CCRP as I wasn’t in the proper parameters but the CCRP failed. I think it may have been because by that time I was too low. I assume when it changes to CCRP from CCIP mode that the parameters for the CCRP release are the same as a “normal” CCRP release?
Thanks all!
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thanks for the replies everyone. I apologize for the brief description of my issues initially, as I was composing it on my Ipad and we all know how intuitive it is to type text on those! LOL.
I was actually at around 10,000 feet when I was dropping the the BLU 109. I don’t use loft bombing, so I was waiting for the second release cue. I have done many successful CCRP drops before, even with the BLU’s so I am not sure what went wrong this time.
The only thing I can think of is maybe it was because the second release cue and the fall line weren’t exactly lined up as the jet was kinda off centre of the target. My speed was not matched up with the caret indicator, not sure if that is important for a successful drop or not?
I normally hit the pickle button at the point where the release cue pass through the flight path marker and around the 5 sec mark. I try it before the release cue passes through the flight path marker and see how that goes.
Any tips on how to do a successful CCIP-CCRP release as well? On each of these missions, I initially started as a CCRP but when that failed I switched to CCIP but it ended up going to CCRP as I wasn’t in the proper parameters but the CCRP failed. I think it may have been because by that time I was too low. I assume when it changes to CCRP from CCIP mode that the parameters for the CCRP release are the same as a “normal” CCRP release?
Thanks all!
It works roughly the same. The terminology is a CCIP-post-designate release. If release parameters exist, that is, the current computed impact point is the one displayed in the HUD and there is no delay cue present on the Bomb Fall Line, then pickling will result in weapons release. If the delay cue is present (its the horizontal line halfway up the BFL), then pickling and holding will result in a switch to CCIP post-designate mode, which acts like CCRP in that you fly to a release solution using the CCRP cues.
To avoid the delay cue, increase dive angle, increase airspeed, or decrease altitude.
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I have been having the same problem with MK82LDGP and MK84LDGPs. I have the pickle button held well before the 2nd cue passes through the flight path marker and sometimes the bombs just don’t release. I still have no idea what the secret is.
I tried some testing last night with DTOS mode, diving towards the target and designating, then pulling up with the pickle button held and it worked every time. I am starting to suspect that G loading might be a factor, i.e. if you are below 1G then they don’t release, although more testing is required to confirm that theory.
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BLU-109 Durandal? Release envelope of that weapon is 600 KCAS at 300’ or thereabouts. 14kft is stratospheric by comparison. I can’t guarantee anything when using this weapon so far away from normal parameters.
Is there any problem with normal bomb like MK-82?
Ummm…BLU-109 is NOT Durandal (was for a time the BLU-107). I suspect you have simply conflated the OP’s non-specific use of “BLU.” And from a weaponeering standpoint, the BLU-109 (hardened MK-84) is a good choice.
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I was actually at around 10,000 feet when I was dropping the the BLU 109. I don’t use loft bombing, so I was waiting for the second release cue. I have done many successful CCRP drops before, even with the BLU’s so I am not sure what went wrong this time.
From a professional POV, CCIP or DTOS would be the preferred delivery method if you can see the target. CCRP would be more appropriate for a blind delivery. CCIP and DTOS provide continuous radar ranging (think of law enforcement using a radar to monitor your speed as you approach) whilst CCRP relies more on system updates like DBS and INS accuracy.
The only thing I can think of is maybe it was because the second release cue and the fall line weren’t exactly lined up as the jet was kinda off centre of the target. My speed was not matched up with the caret indicator, not sure if that is important for a successful drop or not?
I was taught to think of the pickle button as the consent button when using CCRP. Essentially taught…radar cursor (TD box) on target…press the pickle button PRIOR to the max range circle flashing at you, allowing the computer to release the weapon when the jet reaches a point in space where the bomb can hit the target. Without watching your HUD video, I’d only guess that while you may have had the TD box on the target, you simply didn’t put the jet at a point in space where you satisfied the “bomb can make it from here” part of the equation. Having said that, I’ve made the mistake of not holding the pickle button long enough in a High Dive CCIP delivery whilst simulating MK-84s on a runway.
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To avoid the delay cue, increase dive angle, increase airspeed, or decrease altitude.
In the vernacular this is known as STEEP…FAST…PRESS
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BLU-109, BLU-107 less than a 2% error!
I got confused because warhead substitution should make as much difference as what color it’s painted for this kind of question.This is the age-old flew through my CCRP solution with no release problem. I’d really like to see under the hood on these marginal solution scenarios to see why certain solutions fail and others succeed. FPS for time interval? Inflecting between the loft/dive solutions quickly?
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BLU-109, BLU-107 less than a 2% error!
I got confused because warhead substitution should make as much difference as what color it’s painted for this kind of question.This is the age-old flew through my CCRP solution with no release problem. I’d really like to see under the hood on these marginal solution scenarios to see why certain solutions fail and others succeed. FPS for time interval? Inflecting between the loft/dive solutions quickly?
This is a pretty common issue, all the munitions have a profile, usually based on attitude and speed. At higher altitudes, your mach may not satisfy the programmed envelope for the 107 to allow release as far as the game is concerned. This is a BIG problem using the SDBs on the A10 in game as well, have to nose down considerably on a full jet to get the speed in the window for release. More often than not when I see someone fly through the window in-game or they report negative release in Multiplayer, it’s because they were focused too much on the TGP or heads down to the point they lost track of airspeed, so the game decided not to release because they were outside the release profile, even though they were lined up and level.
Most of the other comments on Anti-runway using the 107s are accurate though–try switching to CCIP at 100-200ft and going full AB. Use the TGP to gauge impact point because it will not be visible on the HUD and don’t forget to adjust the arming delay and pickle in pairs (Requires 2 107s per segment to destroy a runway) in SMS before the run or you won’t get anything at all. This will require CCRP-Post as you are close to the ground and moving rather quickly, so there will be about a 2 second hold of the Pickle for release. I recommend adjusting your IP to be about 12 miles out on the inverse radial of the target runway to make your run-in easier, but that’s just a technique. More dangerous in heavily defended airfields, but much better outcome if you can get to the runway. Alternatively, you can use the guided munitions at altitude on a runway if you use the right weapon. I believe DeeJay posted once before there are a few bombs with the higher AP or penetration in their config which will do as much damage as the 107s to a runway, but personally I like zipping across on the deck, high speed, so I can’t recall exactly which LGB you should use off the top of my head.
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This is a pretty common issue, all the munitions have a profile, usually based on attitude and speed. At higher altitudes, your mach may not satisfy the programmed envelope for the 109 to allow release as far as the game is concerned. This is a BIG problem using the SDBs on the A10 in game as well, have to nose down considerably on a full jet to get the speed in the window for release. More often than not when I see someone fly through the window in-game or they report negative release in Multiplayer, it’s because they were focused too much on the TGP or heads down to the point they lost track of airspeed, so the game decided not to release because they were outside the release profile, even though they were lined up and level.
Most of the other comments on Anti-runway using the 109s are accurate though–try switching to CCIP at 100-200ft and going full AB. Use the TGP to gauge impact point because it will not be visible on the HUD and don’t forget to adjust the arming delay and pickle in pairs (Requires 2 109s per segment to destroy a runway) in SMS before the run or you won’t get anything at all. This will require CCRP-Post as you are close to the ground and moving rather quickly, so there will be about a 2 second hold of the Pickle for release. I recommend adjusting your IP to be about 12 miles out on the inverse radial of the target runway to make your run-in easier, but that’s just a technique. More dangerous in heavily defended airfields, but much better outcome if you can get to the runway. Alternatively, you can use the guided munitions at altitude on a runway if you use the right weapon. I believe DeeJay posted once before there are a few bombs with the higher AP or penetration in their config which will do as much damage as the 109s to a runway, but personally I like zipping across on the deck, high speed, so I can’t recall exactly which LGB you should use off the top of my head.
Bunker buster, maybe?
