Is CCRP this accurate in RL?
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I was wondering, if anyone with some real world knowledge could answer this? I was tasked with destroying a SA-2 site. First I destroyed the Fan Song radar. Then I went about destroying the rest of the site with the Mk-82 LDGP’s I had. I did it in CCRP mode from about 12000ft using the TGP to pick out my targets. I dropped five Mk-82’s on five separate targets. Not one of them missed. Is CCRP this accurate in RL? Or is this possible just in the perfect world of simulation? I’m not complaining about the sim. I’m just genuinely curious.
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No RL experience, just speculating, but things may be different IRL… a sudden gust of wind, mechanical issues, calibration issues, fuse issues, and so on may work singly or in conjunction to result in a miss.
That, or you’re a Sierra Hotel pilot!
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The sim doesn’t model wind aloft effects on falling munitions. I believe this is so AI can hit their targets. This makes CCRP drops of dumb munitions very accurate.
Rabbit
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That, or you’re a Sierra Hotel pilot!
Well, that part is definitely not true.
Do you find that CCRP is generally that accurate for you using dumb bombs? Or is it more likely that I just had a lucky run?
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The sim doesn’t model wind aloft effects on falling munitions. I believe this is so AI can hit their targets. This makes CCRP drops of dumb munitions very accurate.
Rabbit
That makes sense, thanks. So basically guided weapons exist in the sim so we can have fun playing around with the procedures. Well except for the case where weather is a factor requiring an INS guided weapon vs. a fixed target.
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It’s pretty accurate. In terms of specific numbers distances, that’s going to be classified. You have things like allowable miss distances, CEPs, Pd, etc. for each weapon. I will say for a SLD (Systems Level Delivery), a qual bomb is one that is within 60m (195’). So you know it’s at least as good as that.
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IRL, winds (their effect on the platform) are part of the solution and the predicted aimpoint accounts for this until pickle. If the old F-4D/E/G) could shack’em when the requirement for the weapon delivery system (ASQ-91) was 30 meters, then I’d believe modern delivery platforms/systems are capable of better with dumb bombs.
Pilot–always the pilot… -
It’s pretty accurate. In terms of specific numbers distances, that’s going to be classified. You have things like allowable miss distances, CEPs, Pd, etc. for each weapon. I will say for a SLD (Systems Level Delivery), a qual bomb is one that is within 60m (195’). So you know it’s at least as good as that.
IRL, winds (their effect on the platform) are part of the solution and the predicted aimpoint accounts for this until pickle. If the old F-4D/E/G) could shack’em when the requirement for the weapon delivery system (ASQ-91) was 30 meters, then I’d believe modern delivery platforms/systems are capable of better with dumb bombs.
Pilot–always the pilot…I can believe that as well. I would imagine modern explosives help. The blast is probably considerable. Considering what you two have said it seems guided weapons are for when there are absolutely no room for error in real life. In a bms campaign it seems we don’t care so much about collateral damage.
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IRL, winds (their effect on the platform) are part of the solution and the predicted aimpoint accounts for this until pickle. If the old F-4D/E/G) could shack’em when the requirement for the weapon delivery system (ASQ-91) was 30 meters, then I’d believe modern delivery platforms/systems are capable of better with dumb bombs.
Pilot–always the pilot…Delivery profile plays a part, though. Im surprised that the level delivery qual is so tight, honestly - would have thought you’d be diving for that accuracy.
Winds is a part of the solution, but the jet has only a simple view of the winds,and the higher up you are, the less it knows about what is happening during the solution.
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I’m replying here because I have just read a testimony of three former US officers about air interdiction in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. According to them the accuracy of unguided bombs has never been enough to strike a target the size of a bridge if dropped from an altitude that keep the attacking plane safe from SA-7 for instance. Even with the F-111 the amount of planes that needs to be committed to that kind of target is enormous if they are only equipped with unguided ordnance. They are strong advocates of guided ammunitions (and especially laser guided ammunitions because of their reasonable cost).
We need to remember that as good as the computer is, it does not take into account fabrication differences that may alter the trajectory of a bomb far from what it has predicted neither does it account for the density of the air or the strength of the wind or its direction along the flight path of the ammunition (just because those parameters can’t be precisely measured). At the end the CEP may be as large as 350 ft (that’s not that bad considering a 12 000 ft drop) and it’s not enough for a lot of targets to be hit with a reasonable probability (vehicles, bridges, ammunition depot, aircraft hangar, landing stripes, ships, bunkers…). That’s why I think all western air forces have transited to using almost exclusively PGM.
An other consideration is collateral damages. They have become unacceptable after WWII for Western Air Forces and therefore each time a target is near inhabited areas they need to use PGM because they can’t take the risk of a computer miscalculating area elevation for instance or the dumb bomb CEP.
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^^ that’s also because getting shot at and being over enemy territory usually doesn’t promote the quality of the delivery flown.
A peacetime range training flight can see CCRP unguided bombs shack a target. But yes, wartime you would obviously prefer PGMs for a variety of reasons.
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Even in peacetime, you can’t hope to hit a vehicle or a small building with one unguided bomb as we can in Falcon 4.0.
That would be achievable only if the prediction of the bomb flight is perfect. Which is doable in a game, but not in reality.
Think that for a 15 000-ish ft delivery every knot of error in the prediction of wind already means a miss by about 50 ft.
Keeping this in mind, a 200-ft CEP is already very good. -
CEP is a notion which is missing in the sim. Maybe one day … we can imagine … when a bombs falls on a civilian building or even is you hit a non assigned target on a mission different than a SCAR mission where pilot is responsible of own targeting.
