Need info for building Falcon 3.0 486 PC
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Hi Guys,
I have recently purchased original Thrustmaster FCS, Falcon 3.0 on floppies. I am looking to build an old 486 to run it, problem is, the Falcon 3 Box I have doesn’t have the “Release Notes and Communications Handbook”. Does anyone still have this, and if so can you tell me what it lists the fastest 486 in that chart? I don’t want to build too fast of a 486. It should be what the devs thought was fastest in 1992. Is it a 486dx -33 listed as fastest?
I have this running in DosBox, but it just doesn’t run correctly, there is something off with the speed of graphics. I got it to run perfectly in PCem using an actual 486 BIOS< but there is no way to use joystick with that,. So I am forced to use real 486 hardware.
I do remember in College I had a Toshiba 486-sz 22 mhz and it ran Falcon awesome.
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If I remember, 486 (math co) 33-66mhz.
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I had a 486dx 25 that was over clocked to 50. If I remember correctly, 66mhz was the most desirable.
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dx for the math coprocessor to run the “high fidelity” flight model.
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DosBox.
Configure DosBox properly, and there you go. Even can support your HOTAS (to a very limited degree).
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dx for the math coprocessor to run the “high fidelity” flight model.
Holly Mo the very reason I bought the math co prossesor… IIRC I still have it…
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LOL…I was King of the World back in the day with my smoking 486dx4 and 2 MB of RAM…ran Falcon 3.0 like a dream.
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DosBox.
Configure DosBox properly, and there you go. Even can support your HOTAS (to a very limited degree).
Yeah, I can definitely run it in DosBox and use my CH Combat stick and throttle. I have it as close as I possibly can get to the real thing by tuning the cycles using norton, however its not the same and it is noticeable by the flying characteristics. The reason is DOsbox, does every instruction in one cycle, but back in the day some instructions were done in 4 cycles some in 2 some in 3 some in one. Falcon 3.0 was very sensitive to the CPU. You can try this on your own to see what I am talking about. Run PCEm and use the 486 Bios, then go into instant action, you can see how smooth the flying is. Then run in dosbox and run with 8500 cycles (about as close to a 486 33 as possible) and go into instant action. You will see that the graphics are too fast for the sim and things are out of whack. If you run in high fidelity mode, DosBox runs it way too fast and things get crazy.
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many of you are probably wondering why I am even bothering running Falcon 3.0 and anyone under the age of 28 probably hasnt seen Falcon 3.0. This sim is still great today. I think BMS is amazing, and DCS A10 equally amazing, but I do think there is a bit too much realism at times. I think that is what falcon 3 balanced so well. You could really concentrate on flying, and the war, and the missions and not have to worry about how complicated it is to work the cockpit in BMS. I wish I had the time to make a sim as simple to operate as falcon 3, but still ahve the same complex war engine and have the incredible graphics as BMS. I still think there is the market ot there for that type of sim. I think Flaming cliffs is kind of there. When I first ran Falcon AT on my dads IBM 5150 in 1987, I was hooked, then I grew up with Falcon 3.0 in high school and college. Falcon 4 was just too buggy to even run. Then things got too complex. As much as I love BMS and the better part of my life has been spent simming the F-16, I just dont play BMS that much. I spend most of my time with DCS flaming cliffs or Allied Force. BMS is just too complex and takes a good chunk of the fun out of it.
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LOL…I was King of the World back in the day with my smoking 486dx4 and 2 MB of RAM…ran Falcon 3.0 like a dream.
:rofl: …. Those were the days. Today your refrigerator probably has more processing power … :rofl:
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Don’t forget to buy a Roland MT-32 off of Ebay for Falcon 3.0! It sounds really nice with that synth hooked up.
Of course… you’ll have to get a MPU-401 “intelligent mode” compatible ISA card for it since you’ll be running pure DOS. It gets pricey fast. The MT-32 sounds sooooo good though!
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And brush up on your DOS commands …. you gotta run that bad boy with (?)600kb of memory open.
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And brush up on your DOS commands …. you gotta run that bad boy with (?)600kb of memory open.
612K IIRC to have voices…LMFAO.
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Yeah, I can definitely run it in DosBox and use my CH Combat stick and throttle. I have it as close as I possibly can get to the real thing by tuning the cycles using norton, however its not the same and it is noticeable by the flying characteristics. The reason is DOsbox, does every instruction in one cycle, but back in the day some instructions were done in 4 cycles some in 2 some in 3 some in one. Falcon 3.0 was very sensitive to the CPU. You can try this on your own to see what I am talking about. Run PCEm and use the 486 Bios, then go into instant action, you can see how smooth the flying is. Then run in dosbox and run with 8500 cycles (about as close to a 486 33 as possible) and go into instant action. You will see that the graphics are too fast for the sim and things are out of whack. If you run in high fidelity mode, DosBox runs it way too fast and things get crazy.
Settings in DosBox will allow you to fly 3.0 You should have the “read me” file. How fast is your CPU? 8500 cycles may be too fast. Also, graphics emulator needs to be turned down. 8500 cycles will depend on your current CPU. I believe you can get her running, but you will have to play with it.
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Have “BOXED” Falcon gold cd, contains 3.0, MiG 29, Hornet, keyboard maps, DETAILED MAPS, warranty card … On the bottom of the box it states:
IBM 80386 or 80486
1 MB RAM with DOS 5.0+ (604k free)
2MB RAM with EMS recommended
VGA graphics required
CD-ROM drive required
Hard drive required
Joystick and mouse recommended
Ad Lib, Soundblaster adn Roland supportedATOK requirements:
IBM 33MHz 80386 or 80486
2MB RAM with EMS or XMS
Super VGA graphics required
VESA compatible
(640 x 480 x 256 colors)
CD-ROM drive required
Hard drive required
Sound Blaster, ProAudio Spectrum or Windows
Sound System required for audio.The chart I have in the release notes and comms handbook shows
25 MHz 486+ for max detail, terrain on, horizon on and clouds on.The AOTK player in the FALCON GOLD FM asked for a 33MHz 80386 or 80486
The Falcon 3.0, MiG-29 and Hornet NSF Customer Support Q&A booklet says system requirements are MIN. 12 MHz 80286, whereas it says OPTIMAL would be a 20 MHz 80386 system or faster.
Does this help, or is Gold too new? The E.B.S. FALCON 3.0 IBM Flight Manual that I have with it says it’s the Third edition, March 1993. Too new?
-Babite -
Have “BOXED” Falcon gold cd, contains 3.0, MiG 29, Hornet, keyboard maps, DETAILED MAPS, warranty card … On the bottom of the box it states:
IBM 80386 or 80486
1 MB RAM with DOS 5.0+ (604k free)
2MB RAM with EMS recommended
VGA graphics required
CD-ROM drive required
Hard drive required
Joystick and mouse recommended
Ad Lib, Soundblaster adn Roland supportedATOK requirements:
IBM 33MHz 80386 or 80486
2MB RAM with EMS or XMS
Super VGA graphics required
VESA compatible
(640 x 480 x 256 colors)
CD-ROM drive required
Hard drive required
Sound Blaster, ProAudio Spectrum or Windows
Sound System required for audio.The chart I have in the release notes and comms handbook shows
25 MHz 486+ for max detail, terrain on, horizon on and clouds on.The AOTK player in the FALCON GOLD FM asked for a 33MHz 80386 or 80486
The Falcon 3.0, MiG-29 and Hornet NSF Customer Support Q&A booklet says system requirements are MIN. 12 MHz 80286, whereas it says OPTIMAL would be a 20 MHz 80386 system or faster.
Does this help, or is Gold too new? The E.B.S. FALCON 3.0 IBM Flight Manual that I have with it says it’s the Third edition, March 1993. Too new?
-BabiteThank you Babite!! this is exactly what I was looking for. This piece of info in particular is really impiortant “25 MHz 486+ for max detail, terrain on, horizon on and clouds on.”
Looks like I am now in the market for a 486dx-25 processor.
Thank you!
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That was relevent to Falcon 3.0, if you also wanted AOTK they liked it higher. 3" floppy discs, or the 5"?
Good luck getting it together.
-Babite -
I still have all of my Falcon 3 stuff including the stick. The CPU you want is at least a DX33 MHz but I used to run it quite well on my X2 66mhz. Also if you can find yourself a dos memory manager like QUEMM which sill squeeze as much ram out of that 640k limitation into the higher addresses if you have it. My machine at the time and 1meg ram which ran perfectly. The DX also lets you use the high fidelity FM which uses the math coprocessor. Also if you have the machine that has Vesa Local Bus that helped with video performance a lot.
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Couldn’t you just create a FreeDos USB boot stick on your current PC and run DOS?
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You would be better off, and probably more successful, looking for an INTEL 486-66 processor. This was the processor of choice for F3. Don’t settle for Cyrix or AMD or any other, compared to Intel they did not have the power.
Also, look for software called QEMM - Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager. This will make the 604K+ base memory allocation simple. Manipulating DOS back then was a total nightmare and could take the uninitiated hours of frustrated tweaking before hitting the magic number.
