I always wonder about things like that. No integrator for the autopilot, no integrator on the roll channel to deal with asymmetries. The latter may be down to complexity at the time, as the Rafale and Typhoon I believe have such functions now.
Latest posts made by Wolfhound
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RE: Smoothing out the autopilot
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RE: AGM-88 HARM Training Videos
Excellent videos Zipgun:thumb:. I’m checking in after a quite a while and I must say what an incredible job the BMS team have done in modelling the HARM, HTS and HAD. Pretty amazing developments.
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RE: RWR Threat Rings
That sounds like interferometry such as was used by F-4Gs. While angular accuracy from the antennas is high, triangulation isn’t instantaneous, it takes some time.
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RE: F-16 reversal pirouette?
@TwanV:
I see a lot of comments that this actually is TVC but that would be weird for a USAF F35A wouldn’t it?
Yes, it would actually be very weird of all models.
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RE: F-16 reversal pirouette?
Beautiful, pure aero.
I always look at TVC as ‘cheating’ to be honest (I use that term loosely of course).
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RE: ECM and IECM question
Nice explanation Blu3wolf.:thumb:
I just wanted to breathe some life into this thread by adding: the ALQ-128 for the F-15 isn’t a jammer, however it’s perhaps understandable why it fits under the ‘ALQ’ designation.
As for the ALQ-131 & ALQ-184, I tried to provide a write-up of how the panel functions, sans jammer programme descriptions here: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?26354-ECM-pods&p=375694&viewfull=1#post375694
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RE: F-15E and the AIM 9X
The 9X has never been carried into combat on the E, we’ve always carried the mike. Between the stateside and OCONUS bases, the E model is in the process of seeing a lot of big upgrades. The original 9X has been around for a bit, and I would honestly believe it to become a legacy missile before long. If I were a betting man, I would think that the E will see the updates about the time the block II version of the 9X starts hitting the operational units.
Rainmaker, the 15E was suppose to start getting the AN/APG-82V1 in 2014. Is this part of the upgrade you mentioned and has the conversion started to happen?
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RE: ECM pods
Nice work Wolfy!! I was the one who wrote the Quora answer previously linked, but obviously there’s a lot out there I missed…
Thanks RISC. That was a pretty comprehensive overview of the F-16 pit in that Quora post. It’s an excellent read.
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RE: ECM pods
As mentioned earlier, I had done some research on ECM systems and the C-9492 panel a few years ago for a cockpit builder. Subsequently more information about the various systems has come to light, so I’ve updated the original post with the new material.
AN/ALQ-119 & AN/ALQ-184 with C-9492 Control Indicator Panel:
The AN/ALQ-184 jammer pod is a Raytheon modified AN/ALQ-119 system that has undergone a substantial revision. It has been produced in several versions, including a ‘long’ three band (low, medium and high) version (Figure 1. & Figure 2.) as well as a ‘short’ dual band (medium and high) variant (Figure 3.) and has been designed to provide a 100 percent probability of detection of continuous wave, pulse and pulse doppler signals. The ALQ-184 is capable of operating in noise, repeater and transponder modes.
Click on the thumbnails to expand the following images:
Figure 1. - AN/ALQ-184 ‘Long’ Triple Band Pod
Figure 2. - AN/ALQ-184 ‘Long’ Triple Band Pod
Figure 3. - AN/ALQ-184 ‘Short’ Dual Band Pod
Figure 4. - C-9492 Control Panel for the AN/ALQ-184
Figure 5. - C-9492 Control Panel for the AN/ALQ-184When fitted to an aircraft equipped with a C-9492 control panel, the ALQ-119 and ALQ-184 operate as follows:
Power switch - This is a three-position, positive-locking toggle switch.
OFF - removes all power from the control panel circuits and the ALQ-119 pod.
STBY - (standby) places the ALQ-119 in standby status and/or initiates a 3-minute warm-up period (I have seen more recent documentation that states 3.3 minutes). After warm-up, the green ‘S’ in push-button S8 should illuminate to signify the system is ready for operation.
OPR - (operate) allows all control indicator circuits to operate and enables the pod to transmit jamming programs. The selection of jamming programs is determined by the ‘XMIT’ toggle switch and/or the eight push-buttons S1 through S8. The alphanumeric symbols in push-buttons S1 to S7 will illuminate to signify that ‘OPR’ has been selected.
DIM - is the dimmer control and modifies the intensity of the lights within the eight push-buttons.
BIT - when depressed, allows a built-in-test of about 80% of the C-9492. Causes all push-button lamps to illuminate, but has no effect on operation of the ALQ-119 pod. The ‘BIT’ button can be activated at any position of the power switch except ‘OFF’.
RESET - when depressed, places the ALQ-119 into standby mode until the button is released. Used for a look-through period to have an unobstructed look at the radar warning system or to clear temporary pod malfunctions. If the fault remains, recycle the pod to ‘OFF’ and immediately back to operate. If the fault still remains, turn the pod off for thirty seconds, then back to ‘STBY’. When the pod completes a 3-minute (or 3.3 minute depending) warm-up, turn it back to ‘OPR’. If the malfunction fails to clear as indicated by fault lights, the equipment should be turned off.
XMIT Switch - This is a three-position toggle switch with positive-locking in each of its three positions. Functions when the power switch is in ‘OPR’.
1 - places the system in mode 1 operation. Additional jamming functions are available by depressing push-buttons.
2 - with an AN/ALQ-119 pod installed, places the system in mode 2 operation (I’ve seen mode 4 operation mentioned in more recent documentation). Additional jamming functions are available by depressing push-buttons.
With an AN/ALQ-184 pod installed, the ‘XMIT-2’ (transmit 2) position with no buttons pushed, places the pod in mode 4 standby.3 - places the system in mode 3 operation (I’ve seen reference to mode 7 operation in more recent documentation).
PUSH-BUTTONS S1 through S7 - have a push-to-engage and push-to-release mechanisation. Each bush-button has an amber alphanumeric symbol in the upper left quadrant and an green ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant (Figure 4. & Figure 5.). The alphanumeric symbols will illuminate when the power switch is in ‘OPR’ and the ALQ-119 or ALQ-184 is operational. These symbols will not come on if the appropriate fault lights are lit. The ‘A’ symbol comes on to indicate the push-button is depressed.
Note: Older documentation referencing the ALQ-119 states that the dots, ‘•’ and green ‘I’ & ‘II’ symbols serve no function.S1 - features a ‘2’ symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant and a ‘•’ in both the lower left and lower right quadrants.
S2 - features a ‘2’ with a strike-through (known as ‘2 bar’) symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant and a ‘•’ in both the lower left and lower right quadrants.
S3 - features a ‘3’ symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant and a ‘•’ in both the lower left and lower right quadrants.
S4 - features a ‘4’ symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant and a ‘•’ in both the lower left and lower right quadrants.
S5 - features a ‘6’ symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant and a ‘•’ in both the lower left and lower right quadrants. With the AN/ALQ-184 pod installed, an illuminated ‘•’ in the lower right quadrant indicates the pod is in ‘RUN SILENT’ mode.
S6 - features an ‘AA’ (Anti-Aircraft) symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant, an ‘I’ in the lower left quadrant and a ‘•’ in the lower right quadrant.
Note: One source mentions the ‘I’ indication in reference to use with the ALQ-176 pod, with the C-9492B panel in analog mode of operation. When the ALQ-176 is installed and the panel is powered ‘ON’, the ‘I’ illuminates after 30 to 45 seconds has elapsed.S7 - features a ‘^’ (Wingform) symbol in the upper left quadrant, an ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant, an ‘II’ in the lower left quadrant and a red ‘F’ in the lower right quadrant.
Note: One source mentions the ‘II’ indication in reference to use with the ALQ-176 pod, with the C-9492B panel in analog mode of operation. When the ALQ-176 is installed and the panel is powered ‘ON’, the ‘I’ illuminates after 30 to 45 seconds has elapsed.PUSH-BUTTON S8 - with and AN/ALQ-119 pod fitted, provides an alternate jamming program in XMIT-1. It has no effect in XMIT-2 or XMIT-3. The green ‘S’ comes on to indicate the ALQ-119 or ALQ-184 is in standby, red ‘L’, ‘M’ and ‘H’ symbols illuminate to indicate faults in the low, medium and high bands. The ‘L’ will remain on after warm-up when an ALQ-119(V)-17 pod is loaded, because it lacks a low band module (also likely for the dual band (medium & high) versions of the AN/ALQ-184).
AN/ALQ-131 with C-9492 Control Indicator Panel:
The AN/ALQ-131 was produced in several versions including Block I, Block II, “deep” and “shallow” models. The “deep” variant is bestowed with additional space in its ‘belly’ to house a module for an extra RF band, bringing the total to three. The “shallow” version is lighter and less ‘draggy’, but features only two operating bands.
Click on the thumbnails to expand the following images:
Figure 6. - AN/ALQ-131 ‘Deep’ Triple Band Pod
Figure 7. - AN/ALQ-131 ‘Shallow’ Dual Band Pod
Figure 8. - C-9492 Control Panel for the AN/ALQ-131 (Sparse Option ‘ALT’ & ‘FRM’ Push-Buttons)
Figure 9. - C-9492 Control Panel for the AN/ALQ-131 (Dense Option ‘ALT’ & ‘FRM’ Push-Buttons)
Figure 10. - C-9492 Control Panel for the AN/ALQ-131 (Non-Standard Push-Button 1 Configuration)The pod can employ noise, repeater and transponder jamming responses and is designed to operate in two formats, preset jamming modes activated by the pilot, or a power management mode controlled by an internal receiver/processor. The sophisticated receiver/processor component, is only available in the Block II pods and enables the jammer to automatically detect threats and to concentrate its jamming power and apply the most effective technique against each specific threat.
The ALQ-131 ECM pod self-tests are conducted by the pods Control Integrated Test System (CITS). There are two CITS tests. The ‘continuous CITS’ constantly monitors selected parameters of pod operation, requires no action by the pilot and does not interfere with with pod transmission. ‘Interruptive CITS’ is an in-depth self-test of each jamming technique the pod is capable of generating. With the C-9492 control, interruptive CITS is performed only when ‘BIT’ is checked by the pilot.
When fitted to an aircraft equipped with a C-9492 control panel, the ALQ-131 operates as follows:
Power switch - This is a three-position, positive-locking toggle switch.
OFF - removes all power from the control panel circuits and the ALQ-131 pod.
STBY - (standby) places the ALQ-131 into standby and or initiates a 3-minute pod warm-up (I’ve seen newer documentation that lists a 3.3 minute warm-up period). During warm-up, red ‘F’ lights will illuminate under push-buttons 4 & 5 (or 3, 4 & 5 if a “deep” three band pod has been installed, Figure 6.), as well as a green ‘LO’ light on the ‘ALT’ push-button. After warm-up, ‘F’ lights should extinguish and amber ‘S’ lights will illuminate, indicating bands 4 & 5 (if a “shallow” pod is fitted, Figure 7.) or bands 3, 4 & 5 (if a “deep” pod is fitted) are in standby and ready to transmit. ‘S’ lights on push buttons 1, 2 & 3 will never illuminate if a “shallow” two band pod is fitted, indicating that bands 1, 2 & 3 are not installed in the pod. ‘S’ lights on push-buttons 1 & 2 will never illuminate if a “deep” three band pod is fitted signifying that bands 1 & 2 are not installed in the pod.
OPR - (operate) allows all the circuits to function and enables the pod to transmit jamming programs. Program selection is accomplished through the actuation of the ‘XMIT’ switch and or the eight push-buttons.
DIM - is the dimmer control and modifies the intensity of the lights within the eight push-buttons.
BIT - is pressed and held for approximately 3 seconds to activate the Built in Test function. The system will run the ICITS (Interruptive Control Integrated Test System) which performs an in-depth self-test of each jamming technique the pod is capable of generating. If the ‘BIT’ button was depressed with the power switch in ‘STBY’, then high power voltage is not applied to the bands and high energy is not radiated by the pod. If on the other hand the ‘BIT’ button was depressed with the power switch set to ‘OPR’, then a test will be conducted on the high voltage and power is radiated from the pods antennas. This ICITS test takes 30 seconds to perform and jamming is interrupted during this period. The green ‘C’ light under ‘FRM’ (push-button 7) will illuminate during the test, indicating ICITS is in progress. A lamp test of all 8 push-buttons is also initiated concurrently with the ICITS, 3 seconds after the ‘BIT’ button is held.
NOTE: More recent documentation states that all lights in each of the 8 push-buttons is illuminated 3 seconds after the ‘BIT’ button is pressed and held as above. When the ‘BIT’ button is released, all the lights with the exception of ‘C’ in push-button ‘FRM’ are extinguished, terminating the lamp test. This documentation also states that the ‘C’ light in push-button ‘FRM’ is illuminated for only 10 seconds after the ‘BIT’ button has been pressed and Interruptive CITS has commenced, indicating a faster (upgraded?) BIT function. If the pod in use is a Block II pod, the ‘C’ light flashes 5 times before extinguishing.If a fault exists and is detected in any of the bands, a red ‘F’ in the lower left quadrant/s of the respective push-button/s (push-buttons 3, 4 & 5 for triple band pods or 4 & 5 for dual band pods) will illuminate for a period of 5 seconds to reflect the fault, the data will then be stored in the ICITS computer history, which records information for the last 8 occasions the ‘BIT’ button was pressed, for retrieval by maintenance personnel. (Older documentation states that the ‘F’ light/s will not prevent subsequent transmitting in that band, indicated by an illuminated green ‘T’ in the lower right quadrant of the active bands push-button. So the faulted band should be considered unreliable until proven otherwise.) After 5 seconds only those faults that affect the jamming technique for the operating mode currently selected will be displayed.
The results of the last Interruptive CITS are stored in the jammer pod memory and compared to the jamming mode selected to determine if a fault exists within the pod that would prevent the use of a mission essential technique. If this fault exists, the red ‘F’ fault light is illuminated continuously under the appropriate push-button/s. Each time a new mode is selected, this process is repeated.
If a fault is displayed as a result of an Interruptive CITS test, the test should be repeated to verify or clear the fault. When the ICITS is performed, it automatically resets all bands and upon completion initialises the jamming technique requested via the ‘XMIT’ mode (see below). If the fault light is extinguished approximately 5 seconds after ICITS completion, the fault will not offset the jamming mode selected. If the fault light remains lit, an alternative mode should be considered (XMIT-1, XMIT-2, XMIT-3, FRM or SPL).
The RESET button cannot clear ICITS faults and the pod should not be cycled off and on to clear the ICITS fault/s. Cycling the pod off and on would erase the record of the ICITS results stored in the pod memory, which will make the ‘F’ light/s go out, but the fault will still exist in the pod. If ICITS faults persist after additional BIT tests and in other ‘XMIT’ modes, use of the affected band should be avoided. If both bands (for a “shallow” dual band pod) or all three bands (for a “deep” triple band pod) show faults, the pod should be switched off.RESET - when pressed, temporarily places the pod from operate to standby. Pod malfunctions discovered by Continuous CITS may be corrected. Faults discovered by Interrupted CITS will not be cleared. The appropriate ‘F’ light is extinguished If a fault is cleared.
XMIT Switch - This is a three-position toggle switch with positive-locking in each of its three positions. Functions when the power switch is in OPR.
1 - places the system in XMIT-1 mode of operations and activates a set of preset jamming techniques. Buttons 1 through 5 are disabled in this mode, so if pushed in the green ‘A’ lights will not illuminate. The green ‘T’ lights in push-button 4 and/or 5 (if a “shallow” two band pod is installed) could illuminate, indicating bands 4 and/or 5 are in the transmit condition. The green ‘T’ lights in push-button 3 and/or 4 and/or 5 (if a “deep” three band pod is installed) could illuminate, indicating bands 3 and/or 4 and/or 5 are in the transmit condition.
2 - places the system in XMIT-2 and activates a second set of preset jamming techniques. Button operation and light indications are identical to XMIT-1.
3 - places the system in XMIT-3 and requires that one or more of push-button 1 through 5 are depressed. When this has been accomplished a preset jamming technique can be activated. In XMIT-3, when any button (1 through 5) is depressed, the green ‘A’ light will illuminate, signifying only that it has been selected. Any time band 4 or 5 (3 or 4 or 5 in a “deep” three band pod) is activated in the jamming program, the green ‘T’ light in the respective button will illuminate whether the button has been depressed or not
PUSH-BUTTONS 1 through 5 - provide status on transmitting bands 1 through 5. Each push-button is typically arranged with an amber ‘S’ in the upper left quadrant, a green ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant, a red ‘F’ in the lower left quadrant and a green ‘T’ in the lower right quadrant. The ‘S’ means the band is in standby (STBY), the ‘F’ means the band has a fault, and the ‘T’ indicates the band is transmitting. If a “shallow” pod is installed, due to it having only bands 4 and 5, the ‘S’, ‘F’ and ‘T’ lights should never illuminate on push-buttons 1 through 3. If a “deep” pod is installed, due to it having only bands 3, 4 and 5, the ‘S’, ‘F’ and ‘T’ lights should never illuminate on push-buttons 1 and 2. The ‘A’ illuminates only when the button is selected in XMIT-3 mode. The ‘A’ has no direct connection with transmitting in a particular band.
Note: In some installations push-button ‘1’ is configured with a ‘non-standard’ set of lamps (Figure 10.), consisting of an amber ‘CB’ lamp (in the upper left quadrant), a red ‘TN’ lamp (in the lower left quadrant), a green ‘SP’ lamp (in the lower right quadrant) and a green ‘A’ lamp (in the ‘typical’ upper right quadrant position). It is possible these lamps illuminate when the pod has been set to one of the following modes of operation: War or (combat) ‘CB’, (training) ‘TN’ or (special) ‘SP’.ALT - (altitude) selects a high (‘HI’ illuminated green in the upper right quadrant of the push-button) or low (‘LO’ illuminated green in the lower right quadrant of the push-button) altitude antenna angle to optimise the jamming pattern and initially comes on in the ‘LO’ setting. When present in some configurations, the two ‘dots’ (one on the upper left quadrant and one on the lower left quadrant of the push-button, (Not shown in Figure 8.)) serve no purpose (at least in earlier pods/panels). The ‘ALT’ push-button works regardless of which ‘XMIT’ switches/buttons are selected. Depressing ‘ALT’ may also realign some jamming program priorities in ‘FRM’ and ‘SPL’.
Note: In some installations the ‘ALT’ push-button is configured differently (Figure 9. & Figure 10.), with a green ‘A’ lamp (in the upper right quadrant) and green ‘I’ lamp (in the lower left quadrant), in addition to the ‘HI’ lamp (in the ‘non-typical’ upper left quadrant position) and ‘LO’ lamp (in the ‘typical’ lower right quadrant position). One source mentions the ‘I’ indication in reference to use with the ALQ-176 pod, with the C-9492B panel in analog mode of operation. When the ALQ-176 is installed and the panel is powered ‘ON’, the ‘I’ illuminates after 30 to 45 seconds has elapsed.FRM - (formation) selects preset techniques for jamming capabilities between aircraft in the same flight (This should allow for co-operative techniques such as blinking, in which the jammers in the flight transmit signals in sequence to confuse guidance systems. Other co-operative techniques may also be employed). The button doesn’t have to be programmed this way however. The ‘FRM’ push-button overrides XMIT-1, -2 and -3 modes. The ‘ALT’ push-button still selects antenna angle and possible jamming programs set up under the ‘FRM’ push-button. When illuminated, the green ‘A’ in the upper right quadrant means ‘FRM’ has been selected; the ‘A’ lights in buttons 1 through 5 will not illuminate, even if in XMIT-3 mode. When illuminated, the green ‘C’ in the lower right quadrant means Control Integrated Test System (CITS) is being performed. When present in some configurations, the two ‘dots’ (one on the upper left quadrant and one on the lower left quadrant of the push-button, (Not shown in Figure 8.)) serve no purpose (at least in earlier pods/panels).
Note: In some installations the ‘FRM’ push-button is configured differently (Figure 9. and Figure 10.), with a green ‘II’ lamp (in the lower left quadrant) and red ‘F’ lamp (in the lower right quadrant), in addition to a ‘non-standard’ amber ‘C’ lamp (in the ‘non-typical’ upper left quadrant position) and green ‘A’ lamp (in the ‘typical’ upper right quadrant). One source mentions the ‘II’ indication in reference to use with the ALQ-176 pod, with the C-9492B panel in analog mode of operation. When the ALQ-176 is installed and the panel is powered ‘ON’, the ‘II’ illuminates after 30 to 45 seconds has elapsed.SPL - (special) actuates a preset mode of jamming that overrides all other modes discussed above. It essentially operates in the same fashion as the ‘FRM’ push-button, except ‘SPL’ also overrides the ‘FRM’ push-button. The ‘SPL’ push-button is typically arranged with a red ‘RP’ lamp in the upper left quadrant, a green ‘A’ lamp in the upper right quadrant, a red ‘IC’ lamp in the lower left quadrant and a red ‘RG’ lamp in the lower right quadrant. When illuminated, ‘A’ means the push-button is depressed. ‘IC’ (Interface Control) indicates a pod/computer interface fault when illuminated. The ‘RP’ and ‘RG’ lamps initially served no purpose in the earlier installations of the ALQ-131. The introduction/activation of the receiver/processor (in the Block II pods) brought new power management capabilities. The ‘RP’ light illuminates to indicate a fault in the receiver/processor.
I hope this helps
Wolfhound -
RE: ECM pods
In BMS there is no difference between types of jamming. In the real world there is of course. The -131 can be customised and is capable of a variety of modes of jamming depending on what modules are installed in it. The -184 is customisable in software and is quite versatile. The exact performance of both IRL is of course classified. The disappointing part is that the ECM panel in the cockpit, the CIU-9492, is also classified. Exactly how it works, we dont know. So even if in the future, electronic warfare in BMS gets a big upgrade, we wont know exactly what the push buttons on the panel do, or what the indicator lights mean. It would either be guessed in, or left nonfunctional.
But yeah, the -131 can do repeater jamming, if it has the right hardware installed, and the -184 can do a lot depending what software is installed. Whereas in BMS the only difference is that the -184 works better.
I actually did some research on this a few years ago for a cockpit builder. I used various sources to try and form a more complete understanding about the functions of those push buttons and switches. I’ll see if I can dig up the post.