All-Aspect Engagements
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Make sure you have Smart Scaling checked on in the in-game settings. That with HMCS you should be able to make out a spec lol.
edit: I just checked and I can barely make out a tiny spec at 10 nm. But at that point is when I turn into him so the range closes quickly to visual. See the pic below.
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Benefits:
- Terrain background helps to mask your IR pattern
Is not modeled in Falcon as I know. Yes, there is a variable in DB (or was and now is hidden) but never were used. Ground clutter is not a factor for IR missiles in Falcon.
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Is not modeled in Falcon as I know. Yes, there is a variable in DB (or was and now is hidden) but never were used. Ground clutter is not a factor for IR missiles in Falcon.
Plus with the Xray’s imaging seeker head I’m not sure how much it would help.
Regardless the dive does help bring up speed. But I am finding the crank problematic. While it does work, it places you in a defensive posture while the bandit maintains and offensive posture. Ultimately the bandit will fire at 10-12 nm. It seems either more aggressive tactics are called for, or maybe there is a way to capitalize on large energy differentials while in the crank… hmmm
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Plus with the Xray’s imaging seeker head I’m not sure how much it would help.
In 2008 in Hungary during the Load Diffuser training low level Mi-24s from 3km at hot summer weather could not be locked with AIM-9X according to reports of Eagle pilots, they talked about the HUN Mi-24 crew about their simulated air to air combat.
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I use AI sometimes with “labels on” … and that only to test certain parameters of the simulation itself.
For general tests i would highly advise to take an human opponent, who is willing to follow strict test protocols and to derive valuealbe data - and not AI.
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Plus with the Xray’s imaging seeker head I’m not sure how much it would help.
Regardless the dive does help bring up speed. But I am finding the crank problematic. While it does work, it places you in a defensive posture while the bandit maintains and offensive posture. Ultimately the bandit will fire at 10-12 nm. It seems either more aggressive tactics are called for, or maybe there is a way to capitalize on large energy differentials while in the crank… hmmm
The answer lies in whether you’re winning or losing during your intercept timeline which all occurs earlier than the phase you’re probably testing in (10 NM or 20 NM?). So since you’re spiked and on the receiving end of a launch there is no other action you can do, you’re already in the losing side of the decision matrix, so the only option to not die is to pump out cold and defeat the missile. This is where your radar search contracts come into play. There are three contracts, short range search, medium range search, and long range search, all abbreviated SRS, MRS, LRS respectively. So obviously the first option since you’ve lost the initial fight is to attempt to bug out, which may or may not work depending on many factors, most importantly AI will chase until it hits BINGO or engaged by a threat, in FvF I’ve seen pilots chase and return to their station, so it just depends. So it works, but after all that you’re done with that sortie, it’s most likely a RTB or divert at that point.
Another option is after defeating his initial launch, is to break back into him, but this comes with some pros/cons. If he launches again you may not have range to successfully defeat any further launches, especially once you get inside 5-8 NM, but you can get some comfort in that it should be much easier to identify a launch if it occurs as you are now closer. Your odds I would say are 50/50, may not shoot, he may take the second shot. The AIM-9X in the sim (and I’m sure in real life too) maintains a very high pK at all aspects and at long WVR ranges. You mentioned that reacquiring the target after turning away to be difficult, which brings in those search contracts I just mentioned. Here’s the breakdown:
SRS - Used in 4 specific situations: exiting a merge, during a notch against a known threat and turning in to engage (that’s definitely your example ), unexpected close in sudden threats/RWR spikes, and during ridge crossings NOE. The contract is a 10 NM scope with 1 full sweep at 60 degrees/4 bars and then you move into MRS. Trust me if you haven’t found him in SRS then he is either behind you or further out. Most likely the latter and not the former unless you’re just totally not paying attention!!
MRS - Used for recommits and short range commit. This is done at a 20 NM scope in two full sweeps at 60 degrees/4 bars. If no threats are detected you finally transition into LRS.
LRS - Default search contract if not prompted by some other cue, so this is 40/80 NM scope with 60 degrees/4 bars.
If you get into a lower contract, you must complete it before moving up to the next contract. So for example, the tactical situation has prompted me to an SRS. I must complete 1 full sweep, then move up to MRS where I must conduct two full sweeps, before I can finally return to LRS.
The last thing that ties into those contracts is your FOR (field of regard) and altitude search responsibilities. With a wingman, one will sweep high altitude while one searches low. You must ensure your elevation is set correctly or the SRS, MRS, and LRS contracts wont work. It is a very important habit to be constantly adjusting elevation to the proper altitudes based on your role in the fight. For your case as a single ship, you have to do it all, but it is unlikely the threat will be operating above your altitude search (lead usually does SFC-36k), but even so a quick bump of the elevation should bring your contact onto the scope within one or two sweeps max. The APG-68 is a great radar system after all
So my answer overall, the high aspect IR missile fight is a game of cat and mouse, who can get in parameters and get the first shot off and that will decide the winner. Give a little push pull at the 10-12 miles because the AI is always going to launch at those ranges, they aren’t bounded by ROE like we are, which requires a VID before the kill, maybe that could be a feature built in one day, instead of the 360 degree god mode x-ray vision the AI has, maybe limited to a more real to life FOV.
Hope this helps your flight testing and engineering, bro! Great topic!
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You right it comes down to whoever gets the first shot. The catch is getting a shot with a high PK. This is dependent on your aspect, range and speed.
I’m beginning to think the first phase of the fight doesn’t really matter so much, since you can simply defeat any missile by turning out. So a more aggressive approach for that phase could be shallow S turns to about 15nm. That should give the bandit some WEZ problems at least. Then at 15 nm (just out of visual range) you line up, shoot and turn out. The trick would be being super fast and pulling CATA lead at lauch.
Now, if this were a human they might not know you took a shot. But the AI being all-knowing would immediately begin a defensive turn out…
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Usually it comes down to which one of the fighters see each other first. If they start equal, then it’s just a missile joust. There are tactics and techniques that can be attempted to try and put weapons on target and keep from being hit, but they’re few and far between.
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There are tactics and techniques that can be attempted to try and put weapons on target and keep from being hit, but they’re few and far between.
Ahhh but that’s what I’m looking for! hahaha. I get the feeling I am going to be disappointed by this endeavor.
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With advanced short range IR missiles that have a high pK % in game, countermeasures are least effective.
So that leaves IR signature, and kinematics to try and prevent the bandit from acquiring a tone/wez before you.
Easier said than done.
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Idle break at the merge…
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I would guess that you’d have to be idle a bit before coming to a merge, that is if F4 still calculates the time in seconds that a jet has been idle, and reduces its signature.
That leaves two main techniques, attempting to have enough energy to be able to idle for many seconds (coming in cool) prior to coming into a possible WEZ from a bandit armed with all aspect IR, or to come in hot and work to try and defeat a bandit’s IR shot with energy. If the first shot is defeated, then the fight must be closed rapidly to cramp the bandit and attempt to not allow any further missile shots.
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Some great points brought up here. Thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far. Here’s to refusing apathy…(cracks beer)!
Recently I have been thinking what if I stripped away the IR component of the fight; in a conservative approach. Say that the bandit could get a crisp tone 100% of the time, regardless of whether you were terrain masking and flying cold (no afterburner). What could I gain from that knowledge?
- Use of my after burner
- Use of the vertical
Plus is it really worth betting your life on these days? It seems these tactics would be reserved for last ditch efforts anyway. So I have refocused my attention more on kinetics. Now am I asking in what envelops do I have the advantage, given I am not concerned with IR? Let’s revisit some factors affecting missile PK.
RANGE
As range decreases missile PK increases, obviously. This is because the missile’s motor has a finite burn time; for short range missiles most likely in the 5 second range (speculation… those #s are classified). After this point the missile starts decelerating and loses maneuvering potential, which leads us into the next factor…G
The AIM-9X is equipped with thrust vectoring. So coming off rail is when it’s most maneuverable, and why it is so deadly at close range even high off bore sight. After the motor’s fuel runs out the missile loses this thrust vectoring capability.Put together this post-motor-burn envelop presents a critical area we should exploit. So how does this affect our tactics? Well knowing the missile is fairly weak at large ranges means we can, for practical purposes, disregard certain max range shots for a time. Assuming both you and the enemy have reached (at the same time) max range on the indexer you should hold off firing for better PK. While the bandit has taken his max range shot you continue to press until just outside visual range (we’ll say 15nm), at which point you fire and begin defensive maneuvering.
By this time the enemy missile’s motor has burned out. We know the missile will start decelerating. To counter this the missile will have to trade altitude for speed. We should not allow this if we can help it. This means establishing a zoom climb (no more than 45 deg and FULL AB). This has the added effect of depleting the missile’s energy faster. We can further deplete its energy with a cranking maneuver so the missile has to pull more lead. Now at some point we will be forced to come down because of speed loss, so I suggest beginning a downward slicing turn at around 550 kias.
Around this time our own missile should be closing in. The bandit will either have begun defensive maneuvering or is continuing on and about to blow up. Either way we should press the attack. This is where I would begin a series of defensive breaks into the enemy missile while decreasing range. This also where I would reintroduce the IR masking tactics (getting low, popping flares, flying cold). When the bandit gets within RTR on the indexer I fire again and bug out.
I will begin testing out this hypothesis sometime this week, unless any of you guys want to take up the challenge. Feel free to post results here.
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Okay fellas. I have done some preliminary testing and I think it is working quite well. I have linked an ACMI for you guys to check out. Cut it pretty close but it gets the point across.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvkyygqw2breh3g/AIM9X%20TEST%202.vhs?dl=0
Edit: Here’s another one that worked out a little better. You can see by the time I come over the top of my climb the missile is all out of juice.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wtb796cast8rxc/AIM9X%20TEST%202_2.vhs?dl=0
Edit: Okay I’ve done this like 10 times now without dying once. Might be on to something…
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8tsr966cc0nsatq/AIM9X%20TEST%202_3.vhs?dl=0
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As promised, a demonstration. Though it’s not a one stop shop, the tactic does indeed work with surprising consistency. All you need to know to adapt it to a different missile is an idea of that particular missile’s burn time.
And as always, critiques/suggestions/new ideas are welcome. Cheers