"Recalculate" function in F4Browse missing in BMS Editor
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@A.S:
Awesome. For starters: “HOW does it RECALCULATE the stats and based on what logic so to speak” and "What exactly do those “STATS” do? (i think i know, but asking again is always good).
Makes sense.
I will try to answer , but would help me to see pic of VCD in F4Browse if you can , so I can see all feild, and bring back my memory good .
On the stats , the range and hitchances are just taken the max value for each of those feilds when it scans through loadout of vehicle .
detection doesn’t get affected AFAIK, you need to edit that manually.
Strength field in VCD and UCD is not really used in F4 code, its used while sim is running, I was told never worry about that one .As for what they do , range is range used by AI in Km , you can test this in 2d map and hitchance are 2d cal for damage in 2d type weapons eith in 2d map display or for weapon that are abstract in game (most all guns ) .
For example you alter air and low air of the AAA KS19, KS12 etc , this will alter the chance of getting hit over time (golden BB affect) You need all data in sync .
detection range is, simulate electronic sensor of some type, like radar , you can see how its setup/used with sam radar data . -
Hi Ed_1,
yeah exactly, but it’s not only the range…
Look at the B-52 Hit Chance and Range against Low Air (helicopter).That increase comes from the nukes a B-52 can carry.
But is this what we want in 2d camps, to have a B-52 some capability to fight helicopter?Cheers
BikerRight , what I would do is either manually edit for those kind of weapons in the VCD , or here is a trick , I remove the nuke from loadout, recal then add it back, then recal UCD, done
This works good as nukes are not in campaign . -
Right , what I would do is either manually edit for those kind of weapons in the VCD , or here is a trick , I remove the nuke from loadout, recal then add it back, then recal UCD, done
This works good as nukes are not in campaign .Hmm maybe better to check if a weapon is available in squadron stores…
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Hmm maybe better to check if a weapon is available in squadron stores…
You mean to see full list of what in all rack loadouts ?
that is another area need to be checked that squadron stores are up to date and not shared by to many . I added many in AF so no sharing unless it very similar vehicle .DB needs to be expanded, get rid of so much shared stuff, it just messes you up in the end .
Once you get DB fixed up it is easy to maintain it, just now there a lot of work to get it into shape IMO .
I did start some fixing back in SP4/4.1 with Ray but we were pressed for time to get SP4 out I didn’t get time to do it right and then left for AF work .Edit:Talking about SSD data, there is/was (maybe you fixed it?) a 600 or so weapon ID# limit , where only the weapons 0-600 show up .
The fix w/o code change is to alter the weapons in the list so the ones you want in SSD show. Basically all the rack ones move above 600 so you have some room .Better fix would be only show weapons that are in the loadout or remove limit but not sure that is easy . -
I will try to answer , but would help me to see pic of VCD in F4Browse if you can , so I can see all feild, and bring back my memory good .
On the stats , the range and hitchances are just taken the max value for each of those feilds when it scans through loadout of vehicle .
detection doesn’t get affected AFAIK, you need to edit that manually.
Strength field in VCD and UCD is not really used in F4 code, its used while sim is running, I was told never worry about that one .As for what they do , range is range used by AI in Km , you can test this in 2d map and hitchance are 2d cal for damage in 2d type weapons eith in 2d map display or for weapon that are abstract in game (most all guns ) .
For example you alter air and low air of the AAA KS19, KS12 etc , this will alter the chance of getting hit over time (golden BB affect) You need all data in sync .
detection range is, simulate electronic sensor of some type, like radar , you can see how its setup/used with sam radar data .Ok, that´s how i understood it. Thought you might now something i missed.
Regardless, thanks for all the replies and the help S!
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Why do I have the impression here that those r just for display and not actual data entries changes? Something like a buffer display of data that will be used while the campaign will be active.
Meaning according to your data squadron weapons etc it calculates what u have declared and shows those values so u know the values for that unit.
Right or I got it wrong?
If this is the case? why we bother with this? As I see it it’s just a reference or quick check matrix. It doesn’t calculate some values and stores them to the database. It just displays what is setup.Why is this so important and crucial in this point? I mean it is important but aren’t there other issues more fundamental?
Sorry If I’m totally offtopic but I was the whole day headbanging on some Falcon issues (editing moding etc) and my thoughts r not clear right now.
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Why do I have the impression here that those r just for display and not actual data entries changes? Something like a buffer display of data that will be used while the campaign will be active.
Meaning according to your data squadron weapons etc it calculates what u have declared and shows those values so u know the values for that unit.
Right or I got it wrong?
If this is the case? why we bother with this? As I see it it’s just a reference or quick check matrix. It doesn’t calculate some values and stores them to the database. It just displays what is setup.Why is this so important and crucial in this point? I mean it is important but aren’t there other issues more fundamental?
Sorry If I’m totally offtopic but I was the whole day headbanging on some Falcon issues (editing moding etc) and my thoughts r not clear right now.
I am not sure I follow what you mean by buffer or just for display , maybe you could give more specific example so we understand .
Ok, Lets talk just on recal , will sim run with data out of sync, sure it will, will damage and ranges of weapons be accurate, maybe m maybe not .
Will avg joe notice it, again maybe maybe not. Its not a showstopper but again most data stuff isn’t but if your trying to model weapon damage/range, fuel usage etc it might be way off . There no easy answer as it depends on whats off and how much .There are plenty of other area the DB needs work, too ,but if you do one may as well do the recal too . Anyone who is doing the editing would do it just to keep everything straight .
If you have all the values not in sync across all data and you want to model something its going to be X factor harder cause you have to figure when that data is in use in the area you want to model it . Don’t know how can explain it any better other than examples . -
On topic,
I will repeat that the Rcalc function is necessary in the tool to first correct the current DB (which has already been done to some extent in FO’s theaters). Then to be there to use when we “Correctly” introduce a new entity to the DB.
I cannot stress the “Correct” enough……too many years of just dumping shite in there……sigh
Shared Parents,shared Usage…blah,blah…the list goes on and on…etcterra.etcterra
Luckily BMS .exe is pretty resilient when it comes to bad data, more so than RV\FF5.0 or OF…I can **** with it on purpose and NO CTD….kewl!!!Though the debrief results are a bit scewy …ROTFLMAO!!!As far as the “who is smarter than who” thing, let’s just drop it. We will not move forward with that mindset.
“We don’t know, what we don’t know…But together we can find out what we don’t know”
I know it is one of my tired Mantras over the years, but it is the truth.
Dave
P.S. @ Biker,A.S……“I know something that you don’t…LaDeeLaDeeLaLa…:razz::mrgreen:”
I hack through C,C+,C++ and C#…but I was learnt Fortran back in 1978-1980…LOL!!
So if you want to tool up this way, I maybe can help -
On topic,
I will repeat that the Rcalc function is necessary in the tool to first correct the current DB (which has already been done to some extent in FO’s theaters).
As a note:
I did correct ONLY stuff in RF DB in regards, which is actually used in the Redflag theater or campaign itself.
I DID NOT fix the whole database as Redflag is a specific theater and not a GLOBAL “multi all features Korea template” theater as KTO is.As far as the “who is smarter than who” thing, let’s just drop it. We will not move forward with that mindset
+1
I look at it like this: BMS goal is to create HIGH QUALITY Sim. Our goal is to create HIGH QUALITY theaters.
Both parties have for eachother valueable “know-how” or expririence information, thus a healthy and respectfull communication in both direction is a “wise” thing to do. -
What I mean is that those data are just display of the current status of the campaign, like a snapshot.
Those values are different as the time passes as other factors affect them.
About the stores example of the B-52 and the nukes.
If the nukes are finished - dropped from the B-52’s then when u open the file at that stage the range value will be different displaying the according to the new data situation.
What I mean - ask is that recalc is a snapshot of the current status of the database. So if u recalc later on let’s say when u r at day 3 of the campaign u just kinda reset those values based probably to affecting factors like stores… so if u had nukes and now (day 3) u don’t and still shows the nuke range in the B-52’s it should correct it. Ain’t this what it does in general saying? But on the other hand this recalc maybe resets some other data like strength or whatever that was a normal fluid continuation of the campaign and u actually reset - boost - violate the ongoing campaign and u alter the outcome like a Hand from God.If this is the case then this is not needed when u r about to start the campaign cause the values should be on their initial values. Unless those data and where they r stored they are not reset (ever) and F4Browse with recalc does this house cleaning.
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Ok, Well definitely no it don’t work like that, maybe the data in campaign files does that “saved.xx” .
Look , the DB is static “but” the data read for the sim depends on many things some places it uses only UCD stuff other VCD but those values don’t change .
The whole idea of hitchance , stats is to get damage modeling of 2d as close as possible to 3d (you never do this cause way damage is calculated) and for all weapons and vehicles that are abstracted like all the tank guns, AAA guns, AC guns etc these values are used .
Assuming the weapons data are the right ones, which that is only way to start , you bring that data over to the other files .
That is as simple as it can be , I don’t see were resistance to doing this , it only sane way to do it .Campaign stuff is separate from the object files which have to do with all entities whether its a AB, runway, sam site etc the data there is how it interacts with other objects and vehicles as far as damage, speed, fuel use, unit status (usage) , ranges, repair times, , the list goes on an on but it is all static data .
Going back to a example , I use AAA KS19 as it interacts with you and is abstract . every time it fires it used hitchance to determine how long you last along with range it will fire .
Now what data it uses depends but if my memory is right the UCD is used for out of bubble in 3d and in 2d map . In bubble , in game VCD is used .
I think that is the way it works but it can get complicated so I am not 100% .
The thing is , if you sync the data you don’t have to worry about that -
2D <> 3D “event Synchronization” … although most stuff in BMS is calculated in 2D only.
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The reason I’m asking is cause in RP5 manual in page 242 in paragraph 5 (the whole page actually is important) says even though they set all to abstract the damage was calculated and done.
Also this is for eyecandy for the user only and not actual damage.
I’m not also 100% sure. U guys that have the code can distinguish this… what we can do is zeroish those values and observe results.Sorry if I’m totally wrong about this, but statistical ringed a bell and by refreshing the info I came up on this… so I hope we don’t talk and waste energy here for eyecandy calculations only…
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The reason I’m asking is cause in RP5 manual in page 242 in paragraph 5 (the whole page actually is important) says even though they set all to abstract the damage was calculated and done.
Also this is for eyecandy for the user only and not actual damage.
I’m not also 100% sure. U guys that have the code can distinguish this… what we can do is zeroish those values and observe results.Sorry if I’m totally wrong about this, but statistical ringed a bell and by refreshing the info I came up on this… so I hope we don’t talk and waste energy here for eyecandy calculations only…
Ok, read that page , he jumps around with different objects but that is all correct what he’s saying .
What they did was make the rockets and frogs/scud abstract cause those missile, rockets arty have no guidance so they visually fire up into air and looked funny . The damage is 2d for all abstract weapons .
The thing with the stats data it also is not just damage affect but how AI work to . for example if you had 0 for low air, or wheeled , then AI won’t fire for low air ac or wheeled vehicle .
So if you added weapon with these fields with values but didn’t update the VCD, UCD you see the issue ?
Of course it depends on what other weapons were calculated and updated correctly .It can get extremely complicated how all the data interacts , with damage though there is a difference between how it calculated in game in bubble and out of bubble even for abstract weapons .
Out of bubble or in 2d map the added damage once the hitpoints vers damage are calculated any extra damage left over gets applied to next vehicle of the unit .
That kind of thing doesn’t happen in bubble in game . -
What they did was make the rockets and frogs/scud abstract cause those missile, rockets arty have no guidance so they visually fire up into air and looked funny . The damage is 2d for all abstract weapons .
Just a sidenote:
That particular one (FROG) can cause CTDs, if called for for duty (or action) in the campaign. I haven´t looked into it yet why (probably even connected to your post above), but i pin-pointed it down to the FROG (we had CTDs, send crashlog to BMS (forgot who), they said, that it looks like a Ground-Unit causing the error and they were right …and the FROG was the reason - removed >> no CTDs anymore at the same campaign-point.).
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@A.S:
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4207219712/h8FE7F463/
Just a sidenote:
That particular one (FROG) can cause CTDs, if called for for duty (or action) in the campaign. I haven´t looked into it yet why (probably even connected to your post above), but i pin-pointed it down to the FROG (we had CTDs, send crashlog to BMS (forgot who), they said, that it looks like a Ground-Unit causing the error and they were right …and the FROG was the reason - removed >> no CTDs anymore at the same campaign-point.).
the problem with them is there range was bigger than there bubble, along with no type of guidance (there should be a new type for these type of weapons artillery ) and you can set them to 3d .
So you got ctd even with them set to abstract ?
Don’t remember running into that but probably something simple . -
Long story short. Campaign was running on the server ( i think it was the BFS theater )… server started crashing, 400+ participating pilots waiting … had to hurry fix it… pin-pointed it to the FROG …kicked it out …all was good. Haven´t had time to experiment with a “frog-dissection” ala high-school at that time :mrgreen:
(Will look later what´s going on)
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In general, sorry, if offtopic but important: https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?16553-Iff-you-could-have-one-thing-in-the-next-update-it-would-be&p=279962&viewfull=1#post279962
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Ouch…
255 features only in one Objective…
So a second one is needed to add more features… hmmm
suggestion (yea I now over too much…):
Could those 255 become groups and every group get 255?
So:
A. Objective
1.Feature group 1 (Also naming that group would be helpful to organize things out. Specially for Airports.)
1.1 Feature 1
.
.
.
1.255 Feature 255
2.Feature group2
2.1 Feature 1
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.
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2.255 Feature 255
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255 Feature group 255
255.1 Feature 1
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255.255 Feature 255This would kill Lodeditor compatibility… ??? hmmm
Other way around 3 or more objectives on the same place… but Falcon Editor can’t display 2-3 objectives at the same time to align them.
Still u can export reference from one objective to use it and align the second one but not that efficient. -
Don’t know how they are now but on large AB there used to be multiple objectives to make up all objects of AB . one would be large amount of tree’s , another would be runways and main buildings (hangers etc ) .I kind of remember a few had feature count of in 550-600 range .
I know LE worked in AF if you wanted to sue it and AF had higher objective total feature count than SP4 so that should work , at least feature count .
I am sure many use it that do theater work . I used F4browse but new version with decent objective support , though LE worked good to .There was a bug in F4browse if you edit feature on objectives , it would add feature to last objective wrong , forget details but you would have to manually edit the last objective feature list number .