Radio Filter (Outsiders Switch)
-
If Im in the 2D UI, then according to the manual, my setting is irrelevant.
Not sure that is correct
I already have the .ini file with a lot of options set, and my outsiders switch is set to awacs. That should affect what I hear in 3D. It should not affect what others hear from me at all.
Agreed, I assume you can talk to them when they are in 2d with you? I wonder if the awacs is so far away from them that they cannot hear you? for testing have you tried the All setting?
-
No. If they have taken a seat, I can talk to them if I have taken a seat. If they have not taken a seat and I have, I cannot hear them nor vice versa.
Edit: the manual says the radio filter only applies when you are in 3D.
-
make sure BMS 2D is active window, otherwise F1/F2 don’t seem to work a lot of the time.
I can shed some light on this…
You need to start IVC with the /k flag, to install the keyboard hooks.
This will make F1, F2, and F3 work even if a different window has focus.Without that flag set, you are right, if IVC is not the foreground program, those keys will not be effective.
-
I grant you this is not a straightforward topic but I am having a hard time even figuring out what questions are being asked here. So let me try just adding some information to see if that helps…
4.33 IVC is very different from 4.32 IVC in a many ways. In particular, the way the range/terrain effects are applied for players who are talking to each other in the 3D world has a big impact on communications with players who are not yet in the 3D world. The “outsiders” functionality was implemented to resolve the fact that with the 3D effects working, the players in 2D were simply out of the loop, unable to make themselves heard to players in 3D world.
Now the way to get players in 2D into the loop is to give them a world position locus. This allows the signal processing code to figure out that such players are not in fact at infinite range. In point of fact, what was happening is that the radio was getting through fine, it was just being attenuated to zero volume because of the slant range math being given nothing useful for input.
That is why for “seat” mode, taking a seat lets you in on the conversation – by doing so you tell the radio system that your world location is at the map position of the flight in which you sat down. It should also explain why players in 2D UI who have not yet sat down aren’t in the loop – they still have infinite slant range so far as the radio system is concerned.
The reason for the “all” setting is to avoid all this mumbo jumbo and just let people in 2D who are connected to the same game and voice server participate in radio traffic.
The reason for the “awacs” setting is to allow a more realistic locus for the player who is acting as an AWACS crewman…i.e. those who are too far away to hear the AWACS or blocked by terrain don’t and everyone else does etc. etc. If you sit in an AWACS flight in the ATO then you get the the exact same result regardless of whether you put “awacs” or “seat” as your “outsiders” value because the seat you took is the AWACS flight and thus your locus is that of the AWACS flight.
I did originally have the “none” setting in there as the default and the test team…umm…well they didn’t like it. “None” is the situation that the “outsiders” option was introduced to fix…no way for people in 2D to make themselves heard to players in 3D world. “none” remains because there are people who said that shutting up random passers-by who weren’t joining 3D world but hooked up to the game would potentially be useful in some cases. It’s not the default now though, “seat” is.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the “outsiders” flag affects your copy of the IVC client not anyone else’s. Let’s say you are the only player in 2D UI with several in 3D world. Unless each of the players in 3D world sets up their IVC client for “seat” or “awacs” or “all” then no matter what you do, they don’t hear you transmitting from 2D UI. Results can obviously be mixed…perhaps one player in 3D world set “none” – in that case that player won’t hear you, again regardless of your settings. In point of fact, if you are in 2D UI with “none” set and the people in 3D world have “all” then they are still going to hear you…but now we’re into the perverse edge cases so I risk confusing everyone
I know this stuff does work as documented because the testers really turned the screws on this stuff when it wasn’t working…thus I’d be pretty confident. If the docs weren’t [aren’t??] clear enough about how this works and I can understand what wasn’t clear enough, we can always add to the docs for the next go around.
Key hooking, or lack thereof, is totally separate from this. Generally, if you want to use F3 so you can talk on GUARD without joining the 3D world then I’d advise starting the IVC client before the game, and also setting the “force local control” and using the IVC Client’s key hook to take F1/F2/F3 away from the game – this will require manual frequency input to the client UI. If you don’t need/want GUARD TX while looking at the game 2D UI, then you can just let the game start the IVC client and use F1/F2 as your PTTs – in that case though, changing the default frequency from 1234 for the second radio (possibly to 243000 which is the UHF GUARD freq as another way to get on GUARD) via the cfg file setting for that is probably advised or you are restricted to a single radio for RX/TX.
-
Excellent explanation! In that case, I think the relevant section of the manual needs rewording then.
The manual says that the radio filter applies to players in 3D, not to players in 2D. The fact that it filters players in 2D from each other based on whether they have taken a seat or not, was not clear from the manual.
I have gotten some practice with it working now. Biggest question I currently have, is why does the AWACS have such a short radio range? Im no expert on the radios big aircraft use, but it seems a little short ranged. With one aircraft at 10 thousand, and the AWACS at 14 thousand, and 130 miles between them, there was no transmission received. At 80 miles, 10 thousand and 24 thousand, there was a difficult to hear transmission, which became a 4-by-5 at 55 miles, 10 thousand vice 26 thousand. From what Im told, all of those ranges/heights have LOS over the horizon, so I guess it comes down to transmission power? Just seems weird that I can talk to Melbourne Approach from a couple thousand miles away, which is a ground station, and in the sim two aircraft cant talk clearly at 100 miles. Is there any possibility of AUTOCAT transmissions in future if this is realistic attenuation?
-
The manual says that the radio filter applies to players in 3D, not to players in 2D. The fact that it filters players in 2D from each other based on whether they have taken a seat or not, was not clear from the manual.
You’re right. I can see where the confusion arises then. What it should probably say is that the outsiders option controls what you hear in the way of other folks who are not yet themselves in 3D world; all other such folks regardless of where you are. I’ll have to think about a way to write that so it’s clear…since that sentence probably isn’t it.
I have gotten some practice with it working now. Biggest question I currently have, is why does the AWACS have such a short radio range? Im no expert on the radios big aircraft use, but it seems a little short ranged. With one aircraft at 10 thousand, and the AWACS at 14 thousand, and 130 miles between them, there was no transmission received. At 80 miles, 10 thousand and 24 thousand, there was a difficult to hear transmission, which became a 4-by-5 at 55 miles, 10 thousand vice 26 thousand. From what Im told, all of those ranges/heights have LOS over the horizon, so I guess it comes down to transmission power? Just seems weird that I can talk to Melbourne Approach from a couple thousand miles away, which is a ground station, and in the sim two aircraft cant talk clearly at 100 miles. Is there any possibility of AUTOCAT transmissions in future if this is realistic attenuation?
There was a lot of debate about effective range. I’m not going to claim that the model is perfect or anything – clearly it’s a compromise in the sense that it really doesn’t deal with variable atmospheric or solar conditions or myriad other factors that can vary and have appreciable affect on range on any given day; heck there’s no accounting for cloud which can really stomp on some UHF frequencies. I’ll tell you one thing though: no one suggested in my hearing that AWACS would be flying around at anything less that fuel efficient cruising altitudes. FL140 is pretty low…not really surprised that the model generates a lesser range for that. I seem to recall testing co-alt jets at FL250 out to 250nm without appreciable audibility problems.
-
Setting my falcon outsiders to: all
and then entering 3d on computer A,when i transmit from an ivc client on a computer B
IVC crashes on computer A.
-
AWACS wasnt cruising so much as climbing - hence the changing altitudes. I was trying to run AWACS on Falcon Online, and no AWACS was tasked. So, I tasked one and was trying to communicate from it during the climbout.
Also, would it be possible to apply those distance effects in 2D as well if you have taken a seat? I thought I saw an option for that on my first read through but now I cant find it. It was weird hearing someone perfectly who tells me they can barely make me out. Not new (joys of teamspeak volumes) but weird.
-
If you take a seat then the distance effects are processed. The model is completely symmetrical too so if you can hear someone loud and they hear you quiet, that’s a problem with something other than the IVC code.
-
@b.s.:
Setting my falcon outsiders to: all
and then entering 3d on computer A,when i transmit from an ivc client on a computer B
IVC crashes on computer A.
Hmm… Can you run with logging enabled and see if that generates a log file with this scenario please??
How are you setting outsiders?? Command line arg or ini file??
What is going on with computer B – just the IVC client, no copy of the game or…?? Need a little more info to get the scenario clear enough to try and repro that one.
-
Hmm. In 2D I dont hear any difference between taking a seat versus not - aside from the not being able to talk to those who have either not taken a seat or have, depending on the case.
-
Hmm. In 2D I dont hear any difference between taking a seat versus not - aside from the not being able to talk to those who have either not taken a seat or have, depending on the case.
Sorry, I’m going to need that in English…you lost me completely I’m afraid
-
In 2D, I dont hear the digital sound processing effects. IVC sounds “normal” in 2D. In 3D, I get all the cool sounding radio effects like mic clicks, range attenuation, HQ clicks, AC buzz, etc… if nothing else, Id like to hear the range attenuation in 2D.
-
Hi, I know this topic is old but it’s just what I was looking for.
It works the same way here. When we use IVC Client + 2D map, IVC just sounds like the 4.32 IVC without any sound processing or range effects.
Of course pilots in 3D have all correct effects. If range between them and awacs is too high they can’t receive comms from AWACS who is in 2D taking place on AWACS flight. Instead AWACS guy can hear every comm with no distortion and effects.
Is there a way to get it working in 2D too?
Thank you!
-
If the client is running before the game then it runs independently up until the “connect” button in the COMMs
UI page in the game is pressed to initiate a multiplayer game. At that time, provided the “force local control”
gadget in the client applet is not checked, the applet will slave itself to the Falcon4 BMS code.I do not find this to be the case. When IVC is connected prior to connecting to a server the applet is not slaved to BMS and continues on the initial frequencies even as they are changed in 3D. Note that the “IVC enabled” check box is not selected when connecting but the manual does not state this is required. With IVC Enabled I fear too much is overridden by Falcon (e.g. the server IP if required and overrides and who knows what else).
-
There is presently no way to get the radio sound filtering effects to work for 2D world use. This is by design. For what it’s worth the thinking was that VoIP use in the 2D UI would primarily be for briefings and the like meaning that half-duplex and reduced sound fidelity would actually be detriments not enhancements. The other issue is that lack of range and altitude information make some or all of the sound processing effects code moot (not mute ;)) anyway…i.e. the primary difference would in fact be making the UI half-duplex instead of full duplex and there’s already a way to do that.
It’s just software though so anything is possible.
-
It would be nice if, when you take a seat in for instance an AWACS, you got radio sound effects processing.
In fairness though, my thoughts are leaning in the direction of ‘it would be awesome if you went to 3D to be AWACS’ so there’s that option to think about too. Not that Id expect that to be easy or happen anytime soon.
-
I do not find this to be the case. When IVC is connected prior to connecting to a server the applet is not slaved to BMS and continues on the initial frequencies even as they are changed in 3D. Note that the “IVC enabled” check box is not selected when connecting but the manual does not state this is required.
Fascinating. It would never have occurred to me to run the IVC client and then not enable IVC in the network connect dialog. Well, gee, yes, if you do that then the client will not become slaved to the game. In so doing you lose a handsome slice of the capability of the client to interact with the game world though.
With IVC Enabled I fear too much is overridden by Falcon (e.g. the server IP if required and overrides and who knows what else).
Wow. Again it would not have occurred to me to imagine that anyone would be anxious about making the IVC client and the game code work together. Ya know there’s nothing super-secret going on when you enable the IVC in the network connect dialog – the only things that might change (provided of course you aren’t repeating values copied into the client on separate start up in which case there’ be no change) would be the one thing placed into the network connect dialog, i.e. the server IP, your callsign and the UHF and VHF frequencies. You can make the frequencies used in this case be anything you want to by setting those in the cfg file so it’s hard to see something harmful (in the sense of fear of override) going on there. Nothing else is overridden and even in the case of the things that game code does in slaving the IVC client you are in control: you can make what the game uses and what the client uses before the game starts be exactly the same at your option with just a little care in setting configurations for IVC and the game.
-
In fairness though, my thoughts are leaning in the direction of ‘it would be awesome if you went to 3D to be AWACS’ so there’s that option to think about too. Not that Id expect that to be easy or happen anytime soon.
The “fly” button works just fine when you take a seat in an AWACS flight so far as I’m aware.
-
Right… but its a little hard to then ACT as awacs. No 2D map, for instance. No 360 degree radar with L16 to make up for the lack of 2D map, for instance.