Warthog and refuelling
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I use a Warthog, linear response, no deadzone.
As Stubbies pointed out, it’s a case of practice. I’ve been flying this SIM for over one year and managed to refuel for the first time last week
Just stick with it….No pun intended.
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no shortcuts then, nor anything to blame except my ineptitude…
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Not a case of ineptitude, just another skill to be mastered.
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Yeah no one starts being able to AAR no problem. Just work it and you will get it.
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When I launch TARGET Device Analyzer, My Warthog stick has about ±40 to ±400 deviation for X-axis centering disabling the dead zone via TARGET. 400 against 65536 is only 0.6% of axis shifting but I have a slight rolling of aircraft in the most of DCS modules (and don’t have any rolling at BMS perhaps because of F-16 FLCS deadzone implementation). With TARGET dead zone my Warthog backs to almost 0, means its backs to perfect center position. I disable dead zone via BMS ADVANCED OPTIONS UI and without any curves or dead zones, I can AAR easily at BMS these days.
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The thing that baffles me is that i cant seem to be able to keep the horizon straight for the life of me, even exercizing the least amount of force on the stick, so it seems to me that the quantum of energy required to move the stick feeds enough movement to pass the center and goes the other way, as slight as it is but enough to make me sway off center. Ill try and train some more. Ive read around people that have tried holding the stick on different parts of it (just the tip, only the base etc) so i want to make some attempts with that too.
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The thing that baffles me is that i cant seem to be able to keep the horizon straight for the life of me
I have had the same problem before. I don’t remember how I have overcame this. At that time I think I was watching at HUD while AAR. Now I only gaze at the body of the tanker.
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I remember taking apart the WH and lightly sanding (perhaps too heavily, oops) the contacting surfaces and replacing the grease with an improved one and the stick felt much better. And I think I had one of the better examples to start with. Center “stiction” as it’s called is one of the known issues with the device.
That being said the job of staying within refueling parameters is never ending. There is no final solution to control on or near the boom. I liken AAR to flying inside a box. You bounce against the walls as you reach your personal limits of error. The goal is two fold, shrinking the box and reducing the frequency of hitting the edge. The principle of bracketing is important. When the left limit is reached it’s necessary to add no less than the required right input to reverse the situation. Accept that it’s a bounce and not a perfect input but always demand that the correction is lower in magnitude than before (to some acceptable small amount). As the movements are slower take the opportunity to shrink the box of limits in proportion. In the acceptable condition you’re bouncing occasionally around in a small box and that’s good enough.
It’s not good enough to shrink the box without the corresponding reduction in violence of inputs. That just leads to a bumblebee in a film canister. Reduction of input size every reversal likewise without shrinking the box is just this slow wide sweeping back and forth. And I guess the last thing is to appreciate the delay between your input and its result. When you add throttle or bank by the time you see it just barely beginning to work it’s time to take most of it right out again. Position comes from speed comes from your input.
Posture-wise the airplane doesn’t perform any differently based on how hard you grip the stick. Muscle tension isn’t a primary input. Fine motor control usually works better in a more relaxed state than what we find ourselves accidentally in during AAR.
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Ok ive tried air refuelling with the warthog for the first time and it’s… challenging. As in impossible.
The slightest touch on the stick translates in a bank. I cannot keep the damn horizon straight, and it has to be bullseye straight in order to stay still under the belly of that Kc. If i even have a little of a jagged line on one side and i think of touching it on the other, simply the .01 bank on one side moves to the other.
Now how do i solve this? Modifying curves? Deadzoning? GITing GUD?
If you hold / grip the stick like you’re supposed to (closing your fist around the handle), I guess your control inputs will be much too large. Using a Cougar myself I’m only touching the very base of the stick with the thumb and two fingers when doing AAR, that’s the only method I’ve found that’ll work with my Cougar (which has a lot of “slop” around the center position).
No idea if this will work with the WT stick too, but I’ll find out once my cougar dies for good and the replacement HOTAS warthog reports for duty. I’ve been tempted to try the new stick while the cougar still plods on, but I’m afraid of losing all of my BMS settings / device orderings / axis assignments by doing so.
All the best, Uwe
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Ok, for the first time in my life i managed to AAR. Im leaving here the way i did so that maybe it could be of any help to anyone else trying to get the hang of it.
I created a tactical engagement where the tanker goes back and forth on open sea for 360nm on a 360/180 axis (20A/300kn). Placed an AWACS to get vectors and off i went to try and engage the nasty flying gas pump. I dont think i got all the way up to Russia as per FPL, but lucky as i might have been it didnt get long to achieve. Now ill run this home brewed scenario a few times just to get the hang of it and then ill try my luck with the vanilla training mission and see what changes.
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Using an FCC3, I have no particular issues with gripping the stick normally and refuelling, nor flying formation (Same skill… basically intro BFM skills).
If you cant tank without removing your hand from the stick to adjust your grip, how will you fly formation during an intercept?
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I have and used: a stock Cougar, Uber Cougar, Miles Hall Sensor Cougar, FCC3 Cougar, FSSB-R1 Cougar, stock and hall sensor modded TQS, TUSBA-R2 TQS, and a stock Warthog stick and throttle.
All are capable for close formation and AAR tanking. The stock Cougar and TQS set being the most challenging due to the stock Cougar sticks center gimbal dead zone and the non-TUSBA modded TQS due its lower resolution and zone control. IMHO, the Force (FCC and FSSB) stick and TUSBA throttle are the best Cougar configuration, and a stock or FSSB Warthog if you dont want a Cougar set. Note i use a Warthog stick grip on my Fssb-Cougar.
With every Cougar hardware configuration, Ive had to re-run the CCP manual calibration and save it. Never use the auto-cal mode. This recalibration is something alot of Cougar users forget to do. Sometimes when the TQS cursor is driftring, you have to first calibrate the controllers in Windows before then calibrating in CCP. This procedure keeps the controllers from being too sensitive by alloweing the full axes range. There is a point where the pots go bad, and then calibration cannot compensate for faulty hardware.
Controllers aside, AAR requires a steady hand and patience. Theres are also best practices to hook up to the boom and stay there. Ill summerize:
- call up tanker to refuel when every ship in flight is within 10 nm of tanker and no other flight is actively refueling (Y1, flight leader or first needing refueling)
- snooze radar, open fuel port, call up fuel state on DED
- wait in to-be-refueled formation position, then when your turn move behind tanker
- pull up to the pre-contact point, which is about a plane length behind the boom
- when cleared, line up the hud gun cross to the boom tip and move in slowly
- learning the connected “sight picture” for each tanker type to hud references helps
- watch the tankers director lights and let the boom come to the plane when in place
- make very small stick and throttle inputs to stay on boom and within director range
- when full, hit the disconnect stick button or just slowly back off,
- then call (Y3) and move to the refueled formation position.
- Close fuel port, reset DED mode and activate radar.
I use every ingress and egress in combat missions to fly close formation off my lead or wingmen, except when in a combat zone. This keeps my formation skills sharp and in turn makes AAR easier.
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- when full, hit the disconnect stick button or just slowly back off
This is not required if you plan to refuel till full. You will automatically disconnect from the tanker when fully topped off. Those steps only necessary if you are not going to AAR till full.
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Agree that its practice practice practice. I’m very much a noob with AAR in BMS and have managed to do so with my THWH with no disconnects just recently - Even managed to follow it while in a turn :headb:
Key for me is to really relax, loosen my grip and make micro adjustments.
You’ll get there
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I have and used: a stock Cougar, Uber Cougar, Miles Hall Sensor Cougar, FCC3 Cougar, FSSB-R1 Cougar, stock and hall sensor modded TQS, TUSBA-R2 TQS, and a stock Warthog stick and throttle.
So far I’m happy with a Warthog and a Tusba R1-Cougar TQS (have chosen not to use the warthog throttle, I like the ergonomy of the Cougar TQS more).
Would you say that adding hall sensors to the Tusba-TQS would be another big step in precision or can it be neglected?
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I would say upgrading to HALL sensors is an improvement even just from a reliability standpoint.
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I find it easier to hook up in a turn because of the slight back pressure on the stick, seems easier for me.