On the SAAB Gripen
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I believe currently fielded Gripen are equipped with a variant of the F404 engine similar to early Hornets…but from what I can Google there was a demonstrator that was equipped with a variant of the F414, found in the Super Hornet…which ought to give it some real kick, if future versions are fitted.
Should think the fantastic STOL performance is mostly due to the canard configuration and the aircraft’s small size and light weight…would like to own one - I think it would fit in my garage…
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the variant of the engine used is not just a single output hornet engine, it was re-engineered from the floor up to give more stability and more thrust in a single engine compact airframe, which included shortening it, and taking weight off, among other things.
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one of the coolest things I’ve read about that SAAB disclosed is the auto combat modes for both creating rear aspect shots, and fighting with the gun in close. I won’t expound on that here, but they are really cool technologies, something that would be sweet to have in an actual GRIPEN dedicated simulation, maybe someday over the rainbow. Worth a read.
another cool little thing, it has a engine swapping mount, so, if there is a russian invasion and the flight line needs to be pumping out aircraft constantly, well guess what, don’t brake for cool down, drop that hot engine on the ramp and a team of 3 men can mount a new one in less than 10 minutes due to the modular housing.
a big reason you cannot apply hornet logic to the gripen in terms of engine is the weight and drag ratios of the aircraft are vastly different. you’re comparing the thrust to weight ratio of a porsche and an s 10 because they are both mid engine in a sense. The gripen has the lowest operational drag co efficient of any modern airplane, classified or no, as well as sporting one of the lowest for bare weights, smallest masses, etc etc etc. It’s a thrust to weight ratio kingpin, not a hornet, noweher even close, the hornet maritime structural and even the gear may as well JUST be an entire gripen, damn near. the volvo rm12 is simply based on the 404-400, it isn’t one. In fact the PIO problems in the POC phase were the main reason for that being redeveloped basically from brick one. all they kept was the access and the license. they redesigned the intake baffle pump exchange compressor post etc etc etc, at that point it’s just like someone asking how hard is it to put a new processor motherboard and chipset into a pc, just buy a new one, it’s cheaper…it’s basically an entirely different engine, this whole thought process influences the modular dropout as well.
another thing I’ve noticed is the loadout currently, I’m going to list what SAAB says it has developed and what the swedes has disclosed as being trained up and systems operational.
agm 65 whole series rb75 swedish callsign RB stands for “Robot” sweden has insured the gripen can fire all versions, but has only purchased the tv versions, in limited supply. br75a’s were developed post purchase, the range has been increased to around 6 kms. another mainstay of many training loadouts seen on the gripen is the bofors rockets. pods of six and the gripen has been seen carrying four at once. the bk90 mlojnir is similar to a JSOW. the mainstay of the gripen is the ansti ship rbs15f anti ship 15 mile range over the horizon, flies low profile then pops up in autonomous search much like a harpoon around a pre designated INS point. amraam ability up to four stand off ps05 standard doppler (so around 60 mile detection) TWS can track 4 and maintain bugs on 10 in the current gripen variant. it has all the standard paveway intervals, 500 1000, 2000. the iris T is on all versions as of today. it has enternal ECM but it is pretty sub par, most gripens on a lo lo lo or a sead or strike mission would be fitted with the ericcson ecm pod on the centerline.
something to take into account, pilots of gripens wear a one of a kind interfaced g suit that has multiple layers and is full body, and has been proven to reduce most g force loads felt by the pilot by almost 65%, meaning 9 gs feels more like 5. That should be taken into account for the redout and blackout rates when you fly the gripen. i’ve been reading about this system for the last 2 hours. This jet is really intriguing, the SAAB minds did something special here. They are really impressive.
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the variant of the engine used is not just a single output hornet engine, it was re-engineered from the floor up to give more stability and more thrust in a single engine compact airframe, which included shortening it, and taking weight off, among other things.
…sort of. The base engine was/is similar to the Hornet’s F404 “EPE” and a bit hopped up from there…maybe. Actually, it was developed from the engine that was supposed to go into the F-20 (which I still have a nice “F-5G” color glossy brochure for around…someplace). As was the EPE, if I recall…I forget. It was a very long time ago in another lifetime, when I was working for GE…I don’t think they shortened it any, but they did turn up the wick. But I do remember being shocked when they killed the F-20 for engine export then went and let GE license out the derivative for Gripen.
Here’s some really great Gripen renders to scroll through…including the bottom side -
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if anyone has the skill, I can name the function and closest “good enough” function for everything in this bad boy. I have actual saab diagrams for the sitck and the cockpit functions available to me.
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…sort of. The base engine was/is similar to the Hornet’s F404 “EPE” and a bit hopped up from there…maybe. Actually, it was developed from the engine that was supposed to go into the F-20 (which I still have a nice “F-5G” color glossy brochure for around…someplace). As was the EPE, if I recall…I forget. It was a very long time ago in another lifetime, when I was working for GE…I don’t think they shortened it any, but they did turn up the wick. But I do remember being shocked when they killed the F-20 for engine export then went and let GE license out the derivative for Gripen.
Here’s some really great Gripen renders to scroll through…including the bottom side -
i’ll say this stevie, I can tell there are certain things and philosophies we differ in, there is one that we don’t, it’s that god awful embargo…while I understand it was a necessary evil, it killed more than just that, it killed communication, we have three of the same aircraft and a bunch of things in the wild that shouldn’t be, a bunch of things that aren’t that should because of it. the f-20 lives on in the places it was cannibalized. That was truly the end of the real military reform movement, the real end.
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they took about 7 inches of the length, but this ends up being the modular assembly, its more important that these parts weigh less. the way the intake and fuel pump are gated is the biggest difference in the actual manufacturing of the engine, in performance terms the biggest difference is that this engine was short geared in a sense for a light weight fighter not a big maritime lady of the navy and it’s performance at low altitudes to fit the requirement of the contract was the biggest area of tuning from the literature I’ve digested.
I mean guys listen, the empty hornet weighs 23,000 lbs, I don’t know if you realize that a loaded gripen on average weighs 17000lbs with two tanks.
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those are beautiful renders, this forum has a limit otherwise I’dpost some really nice ones for you guys of Brazilian export prospective purchase demos pumping flares and pulling massive g’s about 300 feet above the frozen seas
also in just doing a lot of research inspired by the devs enthusiasm and willingness to pump time and effort into something we all love and care about, I’ve listened to a lot of audio of the gripen’s power train and test phase, as well as pilot testimony and feedback…it kind of, whistles, it has a very high pitched whine to it, it is very unique, spend sometime listening to a gripen it is as unique and telltale as the tomcat growl…
it kind of whinnies. it would be nice to get a custom sound map in there eventually, or to tweak the existing one . At high cruising altitude it sounds very hollow, like you’ve got a window open, it’s hard to describe, I’ve read this is partly because of the low drag co efficient, it produces all these unique aural effects. Like I said, this is a very interesting aircraft, one up until now I had neglected more than cursory attention as I am not Swedish and I do not eat Swedish pancakes for breakfast.
The super cruise is very bass.also, for the internet prone, there is about 7 to 8 years of swedish hot shits pulling .1nm finals and stopping on a dime from air shows all over the world on youtube if you are so inclined.
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I was lucky enough to see / hear the Gripen solo demo at Leeuwarden 2016… really impressive. It looked like you could actually see the sound wave moving the leaves of the trees before it hit you in the chest (and the ears :D)
Uwe
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I was lucky enough to see / hear the Gripen solo demo at Leeuwarden 2016… really impressive. It looked like you could actually see the sound wave moving the leaves of the trees before it hit you in the chest (and the ears :D)
Uwe
Pure poetry… technically speaking, Uwe
With best regards,
Gianni. -
so today i got into the dirt: i analysed and synthesized everything about the investigations into bribery i could find…
my opinion based on reductive logic is stated thus: this plane is so cheap over time and so low maintenance, the price would be inflated so that the middle (politicians and lobbyists in domestic environs) could take off the top. The biggest holdup in export of the gripen is it’s relatively small size and cost.
It’s the f16 and the airforce brass all over again.
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they took about 7 inches of the length, but this ends up being the modular assembly, its more important that these parts weigh less. the way the intake and fuel pump are gated is the biggest difference in the actual manufacturing of the engine, in performance terms the biggest difference is that this engine was short geared in a sense for a light weight fighter not a big maritime lady of the navy and it’s performance at low altitudes to fit the requirement of the contract was the biggest area of tuning from the literature I’ve digested.
I mean guys listen, the empty hornet weighs 23,000 lbs, I don’t know if you realize that a loaded gripen on average weighs 17000lbs with two tanks.
When I was working in AB Controls at GE my boss was working on the 14 inch extension to put the F110 series into the Tomcat…when you shorten or lengthen the AB duct and distance to the nozzle it gets a bit more complicated than what you describe. And I’ve never heard the term “gating” or “short geared”…the intake is the airframer’s biz - they specify inlet conditions and engine maker develops a thermal cycle to meet thrust requirements - usually mil power, then add AB. I again think the Gripen gets the “economy” it does chiefly from it’s light weight, and features inherent in canard airframe configuration.
All GE engines are modular, so that’s no surprise - there used to be a GE engine overhaul facility at ONT airport, and I spent some time there tearing engines down and putting the back together…or supervising such, really. That was fun…and educational.
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I was lucky enough to see / hear the Gripen solo demo at Leeuwarden 2016… really impressive. It looked like you could actually see the sound wave moving the leaves of the trees before it hit you in the chest (and the ears :D)
Uwe
…way cool!
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Here’s a pic from the Leeuwarden demo one of my VFW squad mates took:
Makes for a great desktop backdrop as well
Uwe
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I’m going to leave a runner of anything I feel needs attention. I’ve spoken with Ned and Gavin, this is more of a cork board.
The Gripen is the backbone of the scandinavian airforces, and the current fruit of their engineers, it is only right and fitting that the jet should get the same treatment as the theater itself, as it should be the heavy lifter in these scenarios.
All versions of the gripen A were outfitted with FLIR. All have a thrust reverser, to assist with the STOL ability, a loaded for bearing GRIPEN can be from dead stop to wheels up in 800M. According to the swedish press, the gripen can achieve mach one with no burner 300 ASL less than 10km from wheels up.
These are the qualities of this plane, advanced onboard EWS, low level low heat high acceleration (to avoid soviet era and russian IADS), an electronically gated fuel pump, that will allow a pilot as much freedom while calculating a homeplate reserve (the best way to do this in falcon is to restrict full burner fuel usage to no more than 4.0kgs a second at full burner.) The swedish ordered a modern lightweight turn fighter that has low maintenance and high reusability/ flight economy. the jet can respond defensively at high speeds and low altitudes to a variety of threat environments.
Low level low fuel consumption acceleration is the hallmark of this puppy.
???
Gripen never had integrated FLIR, never had thrust reverser…
Stopping within 800 m is not uniqe with light config even F-16CJ can do it… -
Here’s a pic from the Leeuwarden demo one of my VFW squad mates took:
http://i.imgur.com/1vzfL3r.png
Makes for a great desktop backdrop as well
Uwe
Great pic this yours, dear Uwe. Thanks for sharing!
Only a pity that they didn’t caught me snipering at it :lol:
Well worth though to been developed at its best, just seeming to be a nice birdie.
And testing it was a real fun to me, can’t await to have one more ride sooner - I promise.With best regards,
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???
Gripen never had integrated FLIR, never had thrust reverser…
Stopping within 800 m is not uniqe with light config even F-16CJ can do it…I’m going to stick with the SAAB publications for their aircraft. This is readily available from them. I’m not in a position to argue with someone who thinks they know better than the manufacturer . FLIR and TFR through the rafale pod as well as integrated in the E and G are some of the first bullet points . The thrust reverser isn’t a true reverser, it’s a function of the intake, almost like a retro blowblack effect.
Stevie, Volvo states on the rm12" we’ve tuned the performance to give better thrust at high atmospheric pressures, close to the ground or the sea" , they also make heavy reference to using lighter more cost effective parts and getting about another 10 kNs out of the burner. Maybe of interest to some but all gripens build moving forward will have a new engine, another version of the 404-400 is being built as I type by the cartel that picked up Volvo and an aerospace consortium that bid for the data mining made up of BAE the remnants of the gripen export division and more than likely skunk and phantom. The swedes think this will finally tip the scales, will push the gripen into carrier and more than likely be fitted on a larger as of yet to be seen “super” gripen, maybe even a twin engine.
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I’m going to stick with the SAAB publications for their aircraft. This is readily available from them. I’m not in a position to argue with someone who thinks they know better than the manufacturer . FLIR and TFR through the rafale pod as well as integrated in the E and G are some of the first bullet points . The thrust reverser isn’t a true reverser, it’s a function of the intake, almost like a retro blowblack effect.
Stevie, Volvo states on the rm12" we’ve tuned the performance to give better thrust at high atmospheric pressures, close to the ground or the sea" , they also make heavy reference to using lighter more cost effective parts and getting about another 10 kNs out of the burner. Maybe of interest to some but all gripens build moving forward will have a new engine, another version of the 404-400 is being built as I type by the cartel that picked up Volvo and an aerospace consortium that bid for the data mining made up of BAE the remnants of the gripen export division and more than likely skunk and phantom. The swedes think this will finally tip the scales, will push the gripen into carrier and more than likely be fitted on a larger as of yet to be seen “super” gripen, maybe even a twin engine.
What publications…???
Pls. show me images Gripens is service with FLIR…
TFR is also not integrated for Gripen. Never was.
Is not any kind of reverser…I have no idea what is the point is the thread and posting such laugable statements…
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this always happens, sigh;
there is a publicly available book available published by the Swedish air defense services, there is an export documentation prospectus package that is available with a payment to SAAB and clearance through Sweden ministry of defense, it is readily available most likely in a library if you are Swedish. My other sources are controlled, as I have stated multiple times in various instances, I work in hardware, as well as consulting, and have done for the past 15+ years. To think I would post that is highly telling of just how hard you are actually reading, and shows you are simply here to argue. I’m not in the position to argue with someone who will very lazily ask someone to post sources and walk them through the gnosis of learning with zero effort whatsoever, and I am trying to keep this on topic. I don’t want to be seen as attacking anyone, but like I said , there are readily available ones in English, I was able to access scanned hard copies because of what I do. The book I referenced is published by the Swedish air defense in cooperation with SAAB and the aforementioned export consortium I mentioned. If you really want it, walk to the library, and read it. I’m not in the position to learn, nor are you asking question in an academic way. if you’d of done a very cursory SEO you’d of found it yourself. If you think this response is uncalled for, I guess we have different educational lineages, I was never rewarded for laziness, synthesis and analysis is the fruit of research.
So, to play the game you seem to wish, which I will remind you is not the Oxford school of debate, what refrences CAN you cite to show that gripen’s do not have FLIR?
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Very well, Gentlemen.
And now, after you both have clarified your own high respectful point of view the question, what about to quit the OT and go back to work?
With best regards to all,