F-35 status (in BMS) request
-
hmmm to simplify it to death… how much for what an m2k and Rafale can already do in DF?
And the drops energy like crazy on high speeds… was on the small letters or my eyes still have issues? and way much emphasis that on slow speeds it’s wow.going low speed or making pirouettes on slow speeds doesn’t mean the opponent will stay slow also. something like that ain’t the argument by knowledgeable ppl here that the Su-xx TVC and agility like cobra are just wow and on actual engagement it’s pfff.
have it against an m2k or Rafale or EF and then let’s talk again… -
It’s possible I may be misunderstanding your last statement to a degree, but refer again to the article…
The F-35 kind of reminds me of the MiG-23 in the sense that it has a HUGE engine - even if the raw aerodynamics of the fighter in close quarters are not quite as outstanding as older aircraft, the sheer brute force of the powerplant is enough to allow the airframe to kick itself in the ass to get out of a bind. Unlike the '23, it will probably be limited to below Mach 1.8, but we’re talking ACM here, not interception.
That said, I also still have reservations about some contents of the article - the F-35 is still quite a heavy machine with seemingly tiny wings - the difference of course is that lifting body airframe. I think therefore you might want to consider two different, yet very similar aircraft from WWII when considering its capabilities: the P-47 and the Fw-190. One was a heavy plane with a high wing loading, and the other was a light plane with a high wing loading. Both were very capable dogfighters in the right environment, and rather poor ones in others. The F-35 can use its aerodynamics to put itself in high alpha, but is reliant on sheer power for maneuver - the '190 and the P-47 were exactly the same in the latter sense. The F-35 is a heavy bird.
I do respect your hesitation to fall into sycophantism for the F-35 - I don’t want to do that myself. The point is that we’re naturally leary of change, namely for our own protection. However, we should also consider that many projects like the JSF or TFX ultimately produce a capable airframe. THE PROBLEM IS THE INORDINANT AMOUNT OF FINANCIAL WASTE REQUIRED TO ARRIVE AT THAT POINT!
-
i’m openly pro israel and my wife is from haifa so i apologize if there are feathers to be ruffled i know sometimes that happens, the initial cadre is up at Ben gurion airspace, and when I was back in november and december they started flying their f-35s real low, doing WVR BFM on basically the deck, i’d say between 800 and 2,500 from where I was looking, in the daylight, and there was media involved too. The Israeli pilots said it’s hard to get down on the papi, because of the lifting qualities of the bird, and in the low level WVR, in an ambush setting, which you really couldn’t imagine in a stealth fighter but that’s why it stuck with me in my head, I am a novice in hebrew but my wife helps me so I could be super wrong here but two different pilots said basically the same thing- it lifts itself off the deck, you can do weird shit with high AOA at low speeds.
I gotta think too, from an english perspective, dudes like Sprey and Riccioni always talked about downplaying the capabilities of the tech. I have to take that into consideration when I see pierre basically call a dude a fool on camera, and then once the camera and mic is off give him a big hug and say “good job” so…whats that word they use alot to describe cheney? Brinkmanship? that’s it i think.
-
I have seen a F-35 working on Nordic Theater 2.1
-
I wanted to get into aerospace engineering, but I never got that far, and understanding lift via aerofoil design on a technical/mathematical level has always been a bit of a mystery to me. I will say that, despite that, I can still give my “gut” feeling on what happens with the aerodynamics here:
1. I would guess the wings are largely symmetrical in profile, and so you rely on AOA or wing devices to give you greater effective camber.
2. The fuselage, however, probably has a good deal of effective camber, and probably develops a good deal of lift for the entire airframe. Given this point, I wonder if it’s this aspect, rather than the inlet design, which keeps the listed Vmax under Mach 1.8.As per Sprey’s thoughts on the fighter, I still respect his opinion - and you can take that as you will - It’s because he still has what I would consider a relevant critical attitude over the subject. Consider again that so many Allied aviation projects during the Cold War were focused on overly complex, overly powerful, and increasingly less tactically relevant weapon systems in relation to their actual theaters of operation. You have a fellow who was involved with both the A-10 and the F-16 saying this, and both of the latter projects were comparably simple tactical systems which did not take an arm and a leg to get them going - and they’ll continue to do just that until the USAF finds a way to get rid of them. The F-35 program is much like the F-111 program, in comparison. It costs massive amounts of money, will take substantial teething time to mature, and despite the back-and-forth conversation, will never be an end-all be-all. In that sense, the F-35 is in fact, a turkey, just like Sprey has claimed. On the bright side, just like the F-14 wouldn’t have existed without the F-111, the trickle-downs from the F-35 should hopefully make everything else we have better.
-
i agree with you in that, as Boyd kind of grafted into the fighter mafia, that whole dogmas and belief get you killed, he was more poetic about it than that. Trusting tech is what got the phantom into vietnam without a gun…
same mistakes, it usually takes about a generation to forget the horror of war and another to master it, then you rinse and repeat…in the modern era this is different because information is also a weapon.undercut your JSF program in the media whilst basically running an any press is good press PR campaign. most of the pilots vying for the pig would never want a harrier, at every level there are disconnects.
-
Sprey is a hack. He inserts himself into technical evaluations that he lacks knowledge of and has built a following of internet fans that think he has been instrumental in the development and testing of things that he has not. His diatribes on the F-35 & F-15 are mostly B.S. He lacks the understanding of A/C tech since the F-16 was envisioned. He has fooled many people into believing he and Boyd had something to do with its development when all they provided was the theory behind a lightweight single engine inexpensive fighter. I don’t know if he is just ignorant or intentionally trying to get our advanced weapons programs canceled. Seeing his ridiculous attempt to have us halt the F-22 program by claiming it ignores the realities of aerial combat shows he either is a fool or has an agenda. He has said similar things for the worlds most effective A/C. He is very predictable. Every time we begin to develop a new generation fighter he goes into action and spreads B.S. and tries to get it canceled. It has been difficult for me to see all the people spread nonsense about the F-35 but people have a hard time understanding who knows and who doesn’t. The people working on it, testing it and flying it don’t waste their time trying to convince the public and much of it is classified.
I was supposed to go to China Lake and help develop the F-35 but I got out for other reasons. Many of the people I served with did and one of our pilots was the CO of the testing squadron for the F-35B. The difference between what Sprey and the general public claims, and what the people I know say is ridiculous. It’s when I realized that Sprey was either a fool or intentionally lying. For the most part I have stopped responding to people on the internet because they usually think they are always right and know everything even if it is classified. I usually just get a good laugh about it and follow along for the occasional entertainment of it.
-
yes and no on that last sentence. I can’t help but notice aesa and the massive overarching network of support those systems need to be accurate in the stealth role, using the fusion from other battlefield sensors not actually in the plane physically. Like you said, maybe it makes everything better.
I see a bloated Multi nation program proliferating stealth to the greater international community, and the feasibility of all this had massive debit in the decision to stop production (publicly) on the f-22a, I was born at night but not yesterday so I don’t take Public info too seriously, what they tell us in other words. But here is the tick, and just keep in mind, I’m not a tech genius, But I know how to swing a budget, and when to invest in new equipment that allows you to continue your trade…the raptor has the stealthiest radar ever made , and it is self contained…also the chipset is old…it’s also incredibly reliable and hardened against EM and was developed with the nuclear threat in mind…
The pig is a ground attack standoff highly automated soon to be flanked by drone swarms tech suite, pretending it’s an aeroplane. It’s good and bad, but whose to say what they’ve got in the dark…I think if we sell it there is something we don’t. But thats just me.
-
Sprey is a hack. He inserts himself into technical evaluations that he lacks knowledge of and has built a following of internet fans that think he has been instrumental in the development and testing of things that he has not. His diatribes on the F-35 & F-15 are mostly B.S. He lacks the understanding of A/C tech since the F-16 was envisioned. He has fooled many people into believing he and Boyd had something to do with its development when all they provided was the theory behind a lightweight single engine inexpensive fighter. I don’t know if he is just ignorant or intentionally trying to get our advanced weapons programs canceled. Seeing his ridiculous attempt to have us halt the F-22 program by claiming it ignores the realities of aerial combat shows he either is a fool or has an agenda. He has said similar things for the worlds most effective A/C. He is very predictable. Every time we begin to develop a new generation fighter he goes into action and spreads B.S. and tries to get it canceled. It has been difficult for me to see all the people spread nonsense about the F-35 but people have a hard time understanding who knows and who doesn’t. The people working on it, testing it and flying it don’t waste their time trying to convince the public and much of it is classified.
I was supposed to go to China Lake and help develop the F-35 but I got out for other reasons. Many of the people I served with did and one of our pilots was the CO of the testing squadron for the F-35B. The difference between what Sprey and the general public claims, and what the people I know say is ridiculous. It’s when I realized that Sprey was either a fool or intentionally lying. For the most part I have stopped responding to people on the internet because they usually think they are always right and know everything even if it is classified. I usually just get a good laugh about it and follow along for the occasional entertainment of it.
it’s definitely not lost on me that in the mid 90’s he basically led the push to proliferate the arab world with fifth gen tech, I think he for a time worked for dassault or BAE in some ancillary role. I really feel like that man is essentially operational security, a plant, a rabble rouser. He certainly makes me very patriotic…I think he loves his country…Riccioni on the other hand was a real work horse, more on the “IF YOU DON"T DO THIS YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE” kind of team but he really had tons to do with getting that viper made by the airforce if you listen to the airforce…
I personally, and this is just me, don’t but into a lot of that psychological malingering. I think it has something to do with braggadocio, and somewhat of the “fish keeps getting bigger” as far as Sprey is concerned, but maybe they just let him go wild as far as boyd, well he seems more of a pilots pilot, the guy that says " great idea it will never work leave it to a pilot" I think the HUD of the f-16 is amazing, especially as a sort of “moment in time” if you will, and not for us, but in 1975, wow. I know just from what I read about lockheed and the “secret” firms, boyd was kind of consulted along the way into his twilight on ideas, but didn’t really have his ruler and drafting table out much, if at all.
-
Sprey is a hack…
I also just wanted to add, didn’t they say the same thing about the tomcat, the hornet, the viper, the stealth fighter, the b2, and basically everything…?
I mean the media disseminates a very anti fighter pilot message in general. all out hit pieces,meanwhile they blast STEM for females like there aren’t dozens of females trapping on a boat everyday. Pretty anti american and if you follow the defense news, well they’ve been trying to declassify and sell everything from RAM to uranium ore to our foreign development competition basically for a dog’s age. it’s pretty sick. i was adopted and I’m an old timer, both of my parents were Korean veterans not fliers but still. Lots of the mud and the smoke and the mirrors is basically lost on the average north american nowadays. Like you, I mostly ignore it, and swing my hammer on the roof, get home and post about how I cant CCRP lob on here heh.
-
Difficult to give Sprey any respect because nearly everything he has publically stated has been wrong. Even Corams Boyd that is supposed to show him in a goodlight portrays him as Boyds pet monkey being used to further agendas.
The requirements for the A-X might be the one thing he may have got right, but even here the concept of jet powered a/c with next to no avionics was really up for question, by the gulf war application of technology in the AGM-65D was its saviour.
-
Sprey is a hack. He inserts himself into technical evaluations that he lacks knowledge of and has built a following of internet fans that think he has been instrumental in the development and testing of things that he has not. His diatribes on the F-35 & F-15 are mostly B.S. He lacks the understanding of A/C tech since the F-16 was envisioned. He has fooled many people into believing he and Boyd had something to do with its development when all they provided was the theory behind a lightweight single engine inexpensive fighter. I don’t know if he is just ignorant or intentionally trying to get our advanced weapons programs canceled. Seeing his ridiculous attempt to have us halt the F-22 program by claiming it ignores the realities of aerial combat shows he either is a fool or has an agenda. He has said similar things for the worlds most effective A/C. He is very predictable. Every time we begin to develop a new generation fighter he goes into action and spreads B.S. and tries to get it canceled. It has been difficult for me to see all the people spread nonsense about the F-35 but people have a hard time understanding who knows and who doesn’t. The people working on it, testing it and flying it don’t waste their time trying to convince the public and much of it is classified.
I was supposed to go to China Lake and help develop the F-35 but I got out for other reasons. Many of the people I served with did and one of our pilots was the CO of the testing squadron for the F-35B. The difference between what Sprey and the general public claims, and what the people I know say is ridiculous. It’s when I realized that Sprey was either a fool or intentionally lying. For the most part I have stopped responding to people on the internet because they usually think they are always right and know everything even if it is classified. I usually just get a good laugh about it and follow along for the occasional entertainment of it.
P.S. = bullshit. Many time he is simply lying and denies the laws of physics either… His fans very likely does not understand even high school physics and never have seen or undersand any PE pr PFM chart or diagram…
And simply blind to see the performance at least on airshow what F-16 and what F-35A can do. -
" if it were up to pierre, it would of had max 4500 lbs of fuel, no wing bags, and only infrared missiles, he even wanted to take the radar out at one point…the radar."
paraphrase from mind of war -
" if it were up to pierre, it would of had max 4500 lbs of fuel, no wing bags, and only infrared missiles, he even wanted to take the radar out at one point…the radar."
paraphrase from mind of warYep, pretty much… so no AIM-120, no AGM-88, no JDAM, no LGB, no HTS/ LANTIRN / SNIPER. So for missions, that leaves out CAPs, all-weather strike and penetration mission, SEAD/DEAD, CAS, BAI, SCAR…
Let’s see what’s left, Air Policing ? F4 & BMS would be a lot less interesting if he had his way
-
To me, what that reveals about his psychology is that he has taken an extreme position to counter another extreme position. Fortunately, they ended up meeting in the middle for the F-16.
-
a day fighter, with at most, an advanced IRST, that’s all he wanted. sustained 9g turns with a variable seat ( good idea) and dampening technology, that as far as I know, never got made.
pilots can’t sustain 9gs, I don’t care how fancy your seat is. Nasa thinks about doing it with fluids, but that’s like, generation 70….IN THEY YEAR 5000 IN THE YEAR 5000
-
my brother in law and I wear kinda talking about what I think viking stopped on, his father in law is a fighter pilot turned commercial and we are both jet geeks , but I think when uninformed people talk about it they think “its not as good as the F- _____” when if you in fact know what’s important and how to think about it all you think is “DEAD MIGS DEAD BAD GUYS SAFE GOOD GUYS”
thought that was worth saying.
-
-
-