Possible SA-4 Bug
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**Version
4.34.0 (x64)**Build
19631Detailed Description**** Created own TE. When entering SA-4 WEZ it is possible for the SA-4 to fire missiles at own aircraft without getting any ‘4’ Pat Hand Mud indication on the F-16C-52CM RWR and no Launch Warning. This has been confirmed in MP using two different TEs and by multiple human pilots. Some web-sites list an optical engagement mode for the SA-4 but this does not seem to be modeled in BMS. If it is, one launch involved an SA-4 firing at a target at 19.5nm away at Angels 21 and M0.9 with significant cloud and no RWR or launch warning. This would likely put it outside any realistic visual engagement parameters.
Example files
TE file can be provided as required.Reproducibility Procedure
1. Seen in 2x created TEs, which can be provided as required. Also have host ACMI in TE when 2x human aircraft were shot down by SA-4 without either aircraft getting any RWR warnings.
2. Enter WEZ with music off.
3. Get Long Track on RWR.
4. Sometimes, but not always, SA-4 will fire without a Pat Hand ‘4’ symbol on RWR or launch warning. This has happened to 4x human pilots so far when testing 4.34 AI SAM tactics.
5. Often happens when turning away from SAM.
Expected Behavior
Pat Hand MUD ‘4’ symbol and tone plus launch warning when being engaged. -
What is your aircraft attitude and relative angle with the radars?
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It varies. Yesterday I was flying straight and level with the SA-4 at my 10-11 o’clock at 20nm when it fired. During the missile time of flight I began about a 30-40 degree banked turn to the right and the SA-4 was about at my 7 o’clock with me straight and level again when the missile hit. I was looking at the HAD when the missile fired, there was no 4 symbol, green, yellow or red at any point. I also did not get any MUD 4 or launch warning at any point. I was testing for this issue so I was watching the RWR very closely. Unfortunately, due to being above the cloud base I couldn’t see the launch visually. My wingman did see the missile at the last second but not in time to give me a break call.
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**Version
4.34.0 (x64)**Build
19631Detailed Description**** Created own TE. When entering SA-4 WEZ it is possible for the SA-4 to fire missiles at own aircraft without getting any ‘4’ Pat Hand Mud indication on the F-16C-52CM RWR and no Launch Warning. This has been confirmed in MP using two different TEs and by multiple human pilots. Some web-sites list an optical engagement mode for the SA-4 but this does not seem to be modeled in BMS. If it is, one launch involved an SA-4 firing at a target at 19.5nm away at Angels 21 and M0.9 with significant cloud and no RWR or launch warning. This would likely put it outside any realistic visual engagement parameters.
Example files
TE file can be provided as required.Reproducibility Procedure
1. Seen in 2x created TEs, which can be provided as required. Also have host ACMI in TE when 2x human aircraft were shot down by SA-4 without either aircraft getting any RWR warnings.
2. Enter WEZ with music off.
3. Get Long Track on RWR.
4. Sometimes, but not always, SA-4 will fire without a Pat Hand ‘4’ symbol on RWR or launch warning. This has happened to 4x human pilots so far when testing 4.34 AI SAM tactics.
5. Often happens when turning away from SAM.
Expected Behavior
Pat Hand MUD ‘4’ symbol and tone plus launch warning when being engaged.In fact in RL this could be happen because of how it worked. I guess this is not modelled.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pxcprn8r132p1jj/2K11_Krug_%2528SA-4%2529.pdf/file -
In fact in RL this could be happen because of how it worked. I guess this is not modelled.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pxcprn8r132p1jj/2K11_Krug_%2528SA-4%2529.pdf/fileThank you for sharing it with us, Molnibalage!!! BMS indeed requires study that goes way beyond its own manuals and this is awesome!!! It’s is not a game, it’s a sim!!!
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Thank you for sharing it with us, Molnibalage!!! BMS indeed requires study that goes way beyond its own manuals and this is awesome!!! It’s is not a game, it’s a sim!!!
More materials are here.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32545-This-is-what-I-worked-in-the-last-2-3-years -
In fact in RL this could be happen because of how it worked. I guess this is not modelled.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/pxcprn8r132p1jj/2K11_Krug_%2528SA-4%2529.pdf/fileThanks for the info molinbalage. If this is modeled then that is extremely impressive, hopefully the devs can clarify. I note that the document talks about a short transmission from the FCR but in the HAD there has been no green 4 symbol showing. The way it is currently modeled in BMS, if the 4 was lighting up and being detected, even for a second, the HAD would show it, in green if it stops transmitting. This has not been the case in any of the 4 shoot downs I mentioned above.
We will test against the SA-4 unit with the Long Track destroyed and see if it is still happening. If it is then it isn’t using the engagement mode referred to in the linked document.
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More materials are here.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?32545-This-is-what-I-worked-in-the-last-2-3-yearsFantastic info, thank you.
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Thanks for the info molinbalage. If this is modeled then that is extremely impressive, hopefully the devs can clarify. I note that the document talks about a short transmission from the FCR but in the HAD there has been no green 4 symbol showing. The way it is currently modeled in BMS, if the 4 was lighting up and being detected, even for a second, the HAD would show it, in green if it stops transmitting. This has not been the case in any of the 4 shoot downs I mentioned above.
We will test against the SA-4 unit with the Long Track destroyed and see if it is still happening. If it is then it isn’t using the engagement mode referred to in the linked document.
My bet what was posted is maybe a bug but in this case you can call it partially feature.
Fantastic info, thank you.
More will come.
Only about 1/3rd of the book has been translated.