4.34: Enabling Warthog idle detent (without TARGET)
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Found this thread by chance and it’s appreciated !!!
What I don’t understand is why the throttle back written in the Kolbe xls and the throttle forward is not.
All one needs to do is add the callback backward in the xls file at its assigned ready location and copy paste manually only the forward callback.One data to note…the sound file used is 314 and not -1 (the last number in the code).
Thanks again !
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Sorry to have to dumb this down, but I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer….
Would anybody be willing to combine all of this info on this post into a simple “step-by-step” instruction on how to make this work?
I have a TM Warthog.
When I slide the throttle back and up over the “hump” it registers as a button in the game setup as button 93.
I push it forward and pull it back to bring it back over the hump again, it registers it as button 94.So I see the game recognizes the lift of the throttle, but what I don’t understand is which “TQS Detent” action/command it should be assigned for those two keys.
PLEASE - if you could guide me through this with instructions and specific “Button Assignment” to the specific “Action” I would be most grateful.
Thanks,
Fubar -
It shouldn’t. There are two throttle buttons one for each throttle lever. They are buttons 29 and 30 for the right and left handle respectively. Be careful that you aren’t moving both handles locked together since you will be pressing and releasing these two buttons almost but not exactly at the same time. So separate the two handles and I recommend only binding the left one to the first and only engine of the F-16 (for dual engine operations set up the right handle for the second engine).
First, bind the “move to shutoff” command to the left handle button (30, although it will be 29 in the key file because button 1 is “0”). Once that is done you have to edit the .key file manually to assign the “move to idle” callback to the release context of button 29. It is impossible to do this or see that it has been done from within the game itself. This can be done by copying the line for “move to off” then inserting a line return, pasting the text into this new line, then editing the context and callback parts of your copied text to finalize the second line.
Example:
Find the callback and bind for the button 29 made from within the game
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x0 -1Copy that line to create a duplicate
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x0 -1
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x0 -1Edit the second line to activate on button release
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x0 -1
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x42 -1Edit the second line to invoke the correct callback
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 92 -2 -2 0 0x0 -1
SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 92 -2 -2 0 0x42 -1If you load a key file in the game in this way and then save it, the act of saving will erase all of these release lines or any comments. So be careful using the save button if you have any lines which BMS UI cannot understand.
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Thank you Frederf - this is clear and easy to understand. For the record, I the “aha” moment was realizing the Warthog I have has always been locked with the two throttles. Understanding now that Left and Right Throttles are mapped as two different “Buttons” as seen in the Setup==>Controllers page of BMS made it all clear to me.
I have it working now and it is a beautiful thing….thank you! -
Frederf - Just as an FYI and perhaps you can tell me if this is right or wrong…or perhaps it is duplicated, but this is where all the “Detent” settings are located in my keymap file:
Line 292: SimThrottleIdleDetent 314 0 0X17 4 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Toggle”
Line 293: SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Idle”
Line 294: SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Off”
Line 1166: SimThrottleIdleDetent 82 8 -2 0 0x0 -1
Line 1171: SimThrottleIdleDetent 88 8 -2 0 0x0 -1
Line 1175: SimThrottleIdleDetent 92 8 -2 0 0x0 -1
Line 1176: SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 93 8 -2 0 0x0 -1
Line 1177: SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 95 8 -2 0 0x0 -1 -
Since you’re using the forward/back callbacks you don’t need the toggle idle detent (and certainly not 3 of them). You probably don’t want any DX binds for the toggle detent (82, 88, 92). So I’m suggesting erasing lines 1166, 1171, 1175, and then editing 1176 & 1177 like so:
SimThrottleIdleDetent 314 0 0X17 4 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Toggle”
SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Idle”
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Off”
SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 93 8 -2 0 0x42 -1
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 93 8 -2 0 0x0 -1Button 95 is Button 32 on the 3rd controller which I think is Right Engine Ignition on the Warthog which you probably don’t want as a duplicate. As you see I’ve changed “93” (button 30, 3rd device) to be detent back when pressed and detent forward when released (0X42).
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For those of us using the alternative launcher:
(I turned off the hardware idle in the config)
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For those of us using the alternative launcher:
(I turned off the hardware idle in the config)
I think your attachment’s borked
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I think your attachment’s borked
Yeah most of the attachments I have seen in other posts are as well. Lets try it this way:
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If your Warthog throttle is the second DX device in devicesorting.txt:
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 60 -2 -2 0x0 0 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Off”
SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 60 -2 -2 0x42 0x0 0 “TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Idle”Works like a charm, don’t even need to warm up the throttle, start in the off position with the throttle all that back over the hump, just slide it to 50% and back when ready to start.
Idle Detent needs to be turned OFF in the Hardware section of BMS Configuration.Haven’t had a hot start since setting this up.
If only we could get BMS to recognize the POV hat on the throttle we could have a full DX setup on the throttle.
Sorry for necromancing the thread, only got around to trying this now.
I’ve now mapped button 61 to move the throttle into cutoff when going backwards over the hump and to IDLE when going forward over the hump. So far, so good, the throttle now correctly reflects those positions.
However the problem is I cannot move the throttle forward any more; whenever I move it forward from idle the 3d handle in the pit goes forward a tiny bit and then immediately jumps back to the idle position. The throttle axis is correctly assigned and works fine in the setup screen.
I’ve tried reversing the DX lines like so and as suggested above:
SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 60 -2 -2 0 0x0 0
SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 60 -2 -2 0x42 0x0 0which allows me to see the correct axis movement of the handle in the 3d pit, however when I pull the throttle back to “IDLE” it immediately jumps all the way back to the CUTOFF position (while the physical throttle is still in the IDLE position). I’ve verified “idle cutoff” is disabled in the config editor.
Do I need to assign any other “IDLE” or “CUTOFF” dx functions?
Thanks in advance and all the best,
Uwe
EDIT @Frederf: Are you saying that you don’t have your two throttle handles locked together on the Warthog when using it in BMS?
EDIT2: these are all the lines with throttle & detent in my keyfile I’m working on right now:
$ grep Thrott hoover20191117.key | grep Det | sort
[font]SimThrottleIdleDetent 279 8 -2 0 0x0 314[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetent 314 0 0X17 4 0 0 1 "TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent"[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetent 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 "TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent"[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 60 -2 -2 0 0x0 0[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetentBack 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 "TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Off"[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 60 -2 -2 0x42 0x0 0[/font] [font]SimThrottleIdleDetentForward 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 "TQS: CUTOFF RELEASE - Idle Detent - Idle"[/font] [font] [/font]
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Handles locked in use. I only mean to treat them separately when doing setup to keep button events separate.
What you’re doing looks good. I would review joystick output behavior outside the game environment. Then I would break down the issue into small parts. Have just the axis bound and operate the forward back callbacks by keyboard. Start simple and what functions changing only one thing at each step.
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I’m very happy to see the new functions for the WT idle detent buttons in 4.34U1, however I’m apparently still too stupid to get this function to work. I’ve added the following lines to my keyfile:
SimThrottleIdleDetentCutOff 60 8 -2 0 0x0 -1 “TQS: CUTOFF”
SimThrottleRightIdleDetentCutOff 61 8 -2 0 0x0 -1 “TQS: CUTOFF — Right”I checked the setup display and those numbers match the buttons in the setup display when I disconnect the throttles on the WT and move them to the stop / over the hump.
Still, 4.34U1 claims there’s “no function assigned” when the throttles hit those stops. When using an older keyfile, the button 61 registers fine (as detentforward to which I’ve mapped it in this keyfile).
I’ve made sure no other occurences of those buttons (60 and 61) are found in the keyfile.
What am I doing wrong? Is this a “keyboard only” function as the readme for U1 might suggest?
Thanks in advance,
Uwe
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BTW this is the relevant section from the U1 Readme.txt:
NEW IDLE DETENT CALLBACKS:
- Added new keystrokes for handling TM Warthog idle detent. (r19837)
- Works like a momentary switch. When pressed, Idle Cut-Off is activated otherwise throttle is set past Idle detent. Just map Warthog Idle buttons to it.
- SimThrottleIdleDetentCutOff 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF”
- SimThrottleRightIdleDetentCutOff 314 0 0XFFFFFFFF 0 0 0 1 “TQS: CUTOFF — Right”
- Note: These have not been added to the key files yet.
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Good Day, All,
I wanted to share something I just set up that addresses this issue, using the BMS alternate launcher.With many thanks to those who got me pointed in the right direction with this.
-1) put throttles at idle position( just forward of the the rear physical detent)
2) in the AL go to keymapping ,then to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-off. It’s about 1/3 down the list. Left click on it. On the little window that appears , press Invoke both until it changes to “invoke keydown”. The inner window should day “awaiting input” .Pull the throttles fully aft over the hump, and the AL will give it a dx assignment.Mine is 29, and the command looks like DX29 INV DN… Click Save and put throttles back to idle’
3) Now go to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-idle. Left click on it, Select “release” and “invoke keydown”. Pull the throttles full aft to off. It will give it another Dx assignment, looking like Dx29 REL INV DN. Click Save
And that it.
NOTES:1) I don’t know if your setup will give you the same Dx number on not, but be sure the commands look like what I wrote above(ie: DX## INV DN and Dx## REL INV DN)
2) Normally in the AL, when you press a switch or button you’ve set up. it will go to that command on the list. It does not do that for these idle commands, but I’ve tested it twice. It does work in the cockpit, and seems stable.
Enjoy!
Update: I should mention that I’m using the BMS Full keyfile. That’s the one, apparently, that AL works with -
Good Day, All,
I wanted to share something I just set up that addresses this issue, using the BMS alternate launcher.With many thanks to those who got me pointed in the right direction with this.
-1) put throttles at idle position( just forward of the the rear physical detent)
2) in the AL go to keymapping ,then to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-off. It’s about 1/3 down the list. Left click on it. On the little window that appears , press Invoke both until it changes to “invoke keydown”. The inner window should day “awaiting input” .Pull the throttles fully aft over the hump, and the AL will give it a dx assignment.Mine is 29, and the command looks like DX29 INV DN… Click Save and put throttles back to idle’
3) Now go to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-idle. Left click on it, Select “release” and “invoke keydown”. Pull the throttles full aft to off. It will give it another Dx assignment, looking like Dx29 REL INV DN. Click Save
And that it.
NOTES:1) I don’t know if your setup will give you the same Dx number on not, but be sure the commands look like what I wrote above(ie: DX## INV DN and Dx## REL INV DN)
2) Normally in the AL, when you press a switch or button you’ve set up. it will go to that command on the list. It does not do that for these idle commands, but I’ve tested it twice. It does work in the cockpit, and seems stable.
Enjoy!
Update: I should mention that I’m using the BMS Full keyfile. That’s the one, apparently, that AL works withA huge thanks to you drtbkj for that clear and concise instruction. You have sorted this problem for me, and this should be stickied IMO.
If I might, I think I can improve your instruction slightly…
Before starting, “unlink” the two sides of the Warthog throttle, so that you will only be moving one side (in your example you are moving the “right engine” throttle to get DX assignment 29)
Otherwise, with the throttle linked together, you will be getting two DX assignments, including #93 (I think) from the left side.
Once done with this instruction the throttles can be linked again. It shouldn’t matter which side you use the assignments from, but I think it simplifies what is going to be recognised (and displayed) by the AL keymapping.
I am actually pondering using the right-engine throttle as regular throttle, and maybe assigning the left-engine throttle to another axis, like antenna elevation or something. Not sure if that is possible, but it is getting off topic.
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Where can I find that AL keymapping? do you mean the setup, controllers menu?
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AL = Alternative Launcher
https://github.com/chihirobelmo/FalconBMS-Alternative-Launcher/releases
Highly recommended
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Good Day, All,
I wanted to share something I just set up that addresses this issue, using the BMS alternate launcher.With many thanks to those who got me pointed in the right direction with this.
-1) put throttles at idle position( just forward of the the rear physical detent)
2) in the AL go to keymapping ,then to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-off. It’s about 1/3 down the list. Left click on it. On the little window that appears , press Invoke both until it changes to “invoke keydown”. The inner window should day “awaiting input” .Pull the throttles fully aft over the hump, and the AL will give it a dx assignment.Mine is 29, and the command looks like DX29 INV DN… Click Save and put throttles back to idle’
3) Now go to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-idle. Left click on it, Select “release” and “invoke keydown”. Pull the throttles full aft to off. It will give it another Dx assignment, looking like Dx29 REL INV DN. Click Save
And that it.
NOTES:1) I don’t know if your setup will give you the same Dx number on not, but be sure the commands look like what I wrote above(ie: DX## INV DN and Dx## REL INV DN)
2) Normally in the AL, when you press a switch or button you’ve set up. it will go to that command on the list. It does not do that for these idle commands, but I’ve tested it twice. It does work in the cockpit, and seems stable.
Enjoy!
Update: I should mention that I’m using the BMS Full keyfile. That’s the one, apparently, that AL works withI think there has been a change to the most recent Alternative Launcher release. It no longer has the option of “Invoke both/keydown” (for me at least).
Instead in Step 2, select “Press”
In Step 3, select “Release” -
Good Day, All,
I wanted to share something I just set up that addresses this issue, using the BMS alternate launcher.With many thanks to those who got me pointed in the right direction with this.
-1) put throttles at idle position( just forward of the the rear physical detent)
2) in the AL go to keymapping ,then to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-off. It’s about 1/3 down the list. Left click on it. On the little window that appears , press Invoke both until it changes to “invoke keydown”. The inner window should day “awaiting input” .Pull the throttles fully aft over the hump, and the AL will give it a dx assignment.Mine is 29, and the command looks like DX29 INV DN… Click Save and put throttles back to idle’
3) Now go to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-idle. Left click on it, Select “release” and “invoke keydown”. Pull the throttles full aft to off. It will give it another Dx assignment, looking like Dx29 REL INV DN. Click Save
And that it.
NOTES:1) I don’t know if your setup will give you the same Dx number on not, but be sure the commands look like what I wrote above(ie: DX## INV DN and Dx## REL INV DN)
2) Normally in the AL, when you press a switch or button you’ve set up. it will go to that command on the list. It does not do that for these idle commands, but I’ve tested it twice. It does work in the cockpit, and seems stable.
Enjoy!
Update: I should mention that I’m using the BMS Full keyfile. That’s the one, apparently, that AL works withOK, I’m a BMS newbie in controller hell.:mad2: Was able to ramp start without issue a month ago. Now I’m revisiting the sim and get a hot start every time.
I have a TM Warthog joystick/throttle (plus Logitech rudder). Windows 10 Pro. The Windows joystick control dialog shows the Warthog working fine (axes and buttons).
Currently, I’m using the Warthog without any TARGET file/script running.
I’ve got the “BMS - Full.key” file selected (the controller setup page in the native BMS application shows this as the loaded keyfile).
I’ve configured the controllers using the Alternative Launcher (“AL”). I can set the idle detent in the AL axis assignment set-up for the TQS. Operation appears correct; when the throttle is in the cutoff area, the axis bar says “idle cutoff” and when the throttle is pushed forward past the detent, the axis bar appears to increment/decrement smoothly. Nonetheless, I still get a hot start.
I’ve also tried removing the idle detent from the axis assignment and using the keymapping approach outlined in your post instead. I think I’ve got it right. The KeyMapping display says “DX29 RELEASE” for the “Idle Detent - Idle” callback, and “DX29” for the “Idle Detent - Off” callback. Again, I can verify in the Windows diagnostic dialog for the throttle that DX29 and DX30 are both pressed when the throttle is in the cutoff area, and that the two buttons are not pressed when the throttle is pushed forward of the idle detent.
Despite the apparently correct keymapping, I still get a hot start. I’ve also tried both foregoing approaches simultaneously (i.e., assigning idle detent in the AL Axis Assignment feature AND using the keymapping). No luck.
And just to rule out other things, I’ve been using an abbreviated startup procedure:
Ensure throttle in cutoff position;
ENG FEED–>NORM;
MAIN PWR–>BATT;
AIR SOURCE–>NORM;
MAIN PWR–>MAIN PWR;
Close canopy
JET FUEL–>START2
Yet, when engine RPM reaches ~15%, FTIT increases past 700deg, and even moving throttle back to idle cutoff doesn’t help.
As an initial thought, I think the sim may start me with the throttle in the idle position; not cutoff position. Would this cause the overheat condition (feeding a bit of fuel to the engine before 20% RPM is attained?)
Should the virtual throttle image in the cockpit move forward a bit when the Warthog throttle is moved from cutoff to idle? The virtual throttle does move when I move the Warthog throttle from idle to AB, but it does not move when I transition the Warthog from cutoff to idle.Also, I certainly mucked around with setting the idle detent in the native BMS app (i.e., not AL) when I was previously attempting to set up my controllers. Is there some hidden setting somewhere that needs to be undone?
Sorry for the long post. Any ideas would be appreciated.
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Good Day, All,
I wanted to share something I just set up that addresses this issue, using the BMS alternate launcher.With many thanks to those who got me pointed in the right direction with this.
-1) put throttles at idle position( just forward of the the rear physical detent)
2) in the AL go to keymapping ,then to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-off. It’s about 1/3 down the list. Left click on it. On the little window that appears , press Invoke both until it changes to “invoke keydown”. The inner window should day “awaiting input” .Pull the throttles fully aft over the hump, and the AL will give it a dx assignment.Mine is 29, and the command looks like DX29 INV DN… Click Save and put throttles back to idle’
3) Now go to TQS:CUTOFF RELEASE-Idle Detent-idle. Left click on it, Select “release” and “invoke keydown”. Pull the throttles full aft to off. It will give it another Dx assignment, looking like Dx29 REL INV DN. Click Save
And that it.
NOTES:1) I don’t know if your setup will give you the same Dx number on not, but be sure the commands look like what I wrote above(ie: DX## INV DN and Dx## REL INV DN)
2) Normally in the AL, when you press a switch or button you’ve set up. it will go to that command on the list. It does not do that for these idle commands, but I’ve tested it twice. It does work in the cockpit, and seems stable.
Enjoy!
Update: I should mention that I’m using the BMS Full keyfile. That’s the one, apparently, that AL works withOK, I’m a BMS newbie in controller hell.:mad2: Was able to ramp start without issue a month ago. Now I’m revisiting the sim and get a hot start every time.
I have a TM Warthog joystick/throttle (plus Logitech rudder). Windows 10 Pro. The Windows joystick control dialog shows the Warthog working fine (axes and buttons).
Currently, I’m using the Warthog without any TARGET file/script running.
I’ve got the “BMS - Full.key” file selected (the controller setup page in the native BMS application shows this as the loaded keyfile).
I’ve configured the controllers using the Alternative Launcher (“AL”). I can set the idle detent in the AL axis assignment set-up for the TQS. Operation appears correct; when the throttle is in the cutoff area, the axis bar says “idle cutoff” and when the throttle is pushed forward past the detent, the axis bar appears to increment/decrement smoothly. Nonetheless, I still get a hot start.
I’ve also tried removing the idle detent from the axis assignment and using the keymapping approach outlined in your post instead (including Pegasus82’s point about the updated AL functionality). I think I’ve got the keymapping right. The KeyMapping display says “DX29 RELEASE” for the “Idle Detent - Idle” callback, and “DX29” for the “Idle Detent - Off” callback. Again, I can verify in the Windows diagnostic dialog for the throttle that DX29 and DX30 are both pressed when the throttle is in the cutoff area, and that the two buttons are not pressed when the throttle is pushed forward of the idle detent.
Despite the apparently correct keymapping, I still get a hot start. I’ve also tried both foregoing approaches simultaneously (i.e., assigning idle detent in the AL Axis Assignment feature AND using the keymapping). No luck.
And just to rule out other things, I’ve been using an abbreviated startup procedure:
Ensure throttle in cutoff position;
ENG FEED–>NORM;
MAIN PWR–>BATT;
AIR SOURCE–>NORM;
MAIN PWR–>MAIN PWR;
Close canopy
JET FUEL–>START2
When engine RPM reaches ~15%, FTIT increases past 700deg, and even moving throttle back to idle cutoff doesn’t help.
As an initial thought, I think the sim may start me with the throttle in the idle position; not cutoff position. Would this cause the overheat condition (feeding a bit of fuel to the engine before 20% RPM is attained?)
Should the virtual throttle image in the cockpit move forward a bit when the Warthog throttle is moved from cutoff to idle? The virtual throttle does move when I move the Warthog throttle from idle to AB, but it does not move when I transition the Warthog from cutoff to idle.Also, I certainly mucked around with setting the idle detent in the native BMS app (i.e., not AL) when I was previously attempting to set up my controllers. Is there some hidden setting somewhere that needs to be undone?
Also, I should note that this is occurring in “Training Mission 1: Ground Ops”, so it’s the F-16B.
Sorry for the long post. Any ideas would be appreciated.