General HOTAS advice
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I’m currently thinking about getting a new HOTAS, because the T.Flight Hotas X I’m currently using simply doesn’t have enough buttons. Price really shouldn’t be above the TM Warthog, but if you can convince me that something more expensive is absolutely worth it…
The goal is to get a realistic mapping close to the real F-16 HOTAS.The TM Cougar is unfortunately discontinued, so that’s not an option.
The TM Warthog has a throttle with controls that can’t be mapped to the F-16 in a useful way, so that’s not an option either.The Logitech G X52 has a throttle nearly identical to the real one, but the stick lacks two 4-way switches. I can live without trim, but not without CMS, so I’d have to assign the two hats to TMS and CMS and use shifted controls for DMS.
I want to use the slider for the airbrake and the Ministick for cursor control. Afaik, this means that I lose the stick twist rudder, but that’s fine, since getting extra rudder pedals isn’t a problem.
The mapping would look like this:I hope that this would work.
Another option is to use only the throttle and buy a separate stick, like the TM Warthog stick or TM Magnetic Base + F-16 grip (what is the difference between them?). This would requre a joystick merger (software), because BMS only supports POV hats on one device. I wouldn’t really like to do that because of the price, but maybe the TM stick is worth it. If there is a better or cheaper F-16 like stick, let me know.
Also, do you recommend the standard or the Pro version of the X52?Basically perfect would be the Logitech G X56, even though it has only a single stage trigger (I can map the first detent somewhere else). Mapping about like this:
I’m not sure if CMS on the ministick is useful (afaik it’s possible), but in that case I can still swap CMS and trim.
As you can see, there are still many unmapped buttons which could be assigned to often used radio commands (request picture, declare, attack my target etc.).
Plus, I could also make a good mapping for the A-10 (DCS).
A downside would be the lack of a throttle detent, but maybe I could improvise one.And of course, What is the quality of them?
I’ve heard many complaints about the X56. Many say that the throttle has too much friction, the stick is wobbly and sometimes it just falls apart or shows unwanted behaviour. Is it actually that bad?If there’s another suitable HOTAS I haven’t mentioned here, tell me!
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There’s an old CH Products set, Pro Throttle and Fighterstick just about cover it, though you won’t have knobs on the throttle (you could map increase-decrease buttons, though). I use that and it’s awesome, though I bought it used, and after hearing from other users I found I probably have a modded joystick spring, so the stock one may be a bit weak. Throttle is not exactly Viper-like, but the whole thing is very durable.
Cougar TQS+Warthog stick might be an option if you can find a used TQS, but that might be expensive. Or you can make your own.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3447345 -
There’s an old CH Products set, Pro Throttle and Fighterstick just about cover it, though you won’t have knobs on the throttle (you could map increase-decrease buttons, though). I use that and it’s awesome, though I bought it used, and after hearing from other users I found I probably have a modded joystick spring, so the stock one may be a bit weak. Throttle is not exactly Viper-like, but the whole thing is very durable.
Cougar TQS+Warthog stick might be an option if you can find a used TQS, but that might be expensive. Or you can make your own.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3447345The CH Fighterstick is of course an option, but rather as X52 Throttle + Fighterstick. But if I’m not mistaken, the Fighterstick doesn’t have a twist rudder function. And then, Fighterstick + Rudder pedals is not much cheaper than The Warthog stick, so I’d probably rather go for the Warthog, unless the Fighterstick is actually in quality close to the Warthog.
I didn’t list the Fighterstick in the initial post, because it was really hard to find a shop that sells them and I thought it was discontinued.
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I just built an improvised AB detent for my current throttle. The lack of a detent of the X56 isn’t a problem anymore.
Not because it doesn’t have a detent (it has one, even though it’s not in the ideal position), but to demonstrate that it is possible to add a detent to a throttle without one. -
I use the X56 until I fixed the Cougar I bought and love it. As long as you have the X56 made by Logitech (will have grey stickers) and not the series made by Saitek. Logitech fixed the issues in the Saitek design and I have had very little issues with it any issues I have had have been user error. The X56 is a good choice.
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Had the X52 (old Saitek on) for over 15 years and it served me quite well but wanted to get a Force Sensing Stick.
I’m now on a X65F which I had made a bargain for 100€ and I really love it. Even so it’s discontinued would still prefer my 2nd hand one over a X56. And the other Force Sensing where way out of range what i was willing to spend -
Thumbs up for the Warthog from me if you can get it for a decent price. Nice pit of kit, very reliable & precise.
All the best
Uwe
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There is one minor problem: The X56 just disappeared from pretty much all German stores, Media Markt is the only shop to say when they’re getting new ones and that’s in September.
Same in Austria, so picking one up while on vacation isn’t working either
It’s available earlier in Switzerland, but none of the shops usually ship to Germany and I doubt that they will even if I ask kindly.There is currently a used X65 plus rudder pedals, switch panel, radio panel and flight instrument panel on eBay for 550€, which is really more than I’d like to spend
Also, many people say that force sensing just doesn’t work for them and I’m not too happy about bolting/clamping it to the table. Oh, and it’s the wrong stick for pretty much all other aircraft (except the F-16 of course).
I’m using Win10, can I be really sure that I’d get the X65 to work without reinstalling Windows?Unless a really good deal for the X65 pops up, my primary choice would still be the X56. If neither become available in the near future, I’ll have to get the X52+Warthog (or X52+Fighterstick+pedals if the Fighterstick gets close to the Warthog).
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1. The X65F works on Win10. Have it fully operational.
2. Yes it needs to be fixed. I don’t have it on the table but bolted to my chair.Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
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I have an X55 Throttle with CH Fighterstick and short of picking up an x65 for reasonable money I don’t feel like upgrading to anything that will cost much under £1k!
If you have an X56 throttle then so much the better; it saves on having to add a proper ministick to replace the horrible one on the X55, like I had to. Why the fighterstick? I really don’t like the X55 joystick at all. It has a horrible centering mechanism that makes small adjustments in pitch or roll (AAR?) impossible, and the buttons are rotten quality. I bought my fighterstick for about £30 on ebay and it looked new when it came out of the box.
There is a guy on the DCS forums making upgrade kits for CH stuff like 12bit boards and Mars sensors that just drop right in so I’ll eventually have and up to date stick with nice switches for under £80. Lack of dual-stage trigger is not a problem; shift-trigger works well for lasing. All I really miss is the AP disconnect switch.
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There is one minor problem: The X56 just disappeared from pretty much all German stores, Media Markt is the only shop to say when they’re getting new ones and that’s in September.
Same in Austria, so picking one up while on vacation isn’t working either
It’s available earlier in Switzerland, but none of the shops usually ship to Germany and I doubt that they will even if I ask kindly.There is currently a used X65 plus rudder pedals, switch panel, radio panel and flight instrument panel on eBay for 550€, which is really more than I’d like to spend
Also, many people say that force sensing just doesn’t work for them and I’m not too happy about bolting/clamping it to the table. Oh, and it’s the wrong stick for pretty much all other aircraft (except the F-16 of course).
I’m using Win10, can I be really sure that I’d get the X65 to work without reinstalling Windows?Unless a really good deal for the X65 pops up, my primary choice would still be the X56. If neither become available in the near future, I’ll have to get the X52+Warthog (or X52+Fighterstick+pedals if the Fighterstick gets close to the Warthog).
look here:
https://www.logitechg.com/en-ch/products/space.html
The X56 is listed as available…
Even the German website of logitech has it:
https://www.logitechg.com/de-de/products/space.html -
look here:
https://www.logitechg.com/en-ch/products/space.html
The X56 is listed as available…
Even the German website of logitech has it:
https://www.logitechg.com/de-de/products/space.htmlAusverkauft = Sold Out
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1. The X65F works on Win10. Have it fully operational.
2. Yes it needs to be fixed. I don’t have it on the table but bolted to my chair.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200619/e50bfd83788df3c3fef6e4b25e31205c.jpg
Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
Is it enough to fix the stick or do I need to fix the throttle as well?
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Only the stick. And even there it depends on the force setting. With having it set to minimum for pitch and roll you might even use the stick without clamping / fixing it
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I’m now trying to get a X56. The X65 could be great, but it’s just too risky. It’s totally outdated, every Windows update might break it and I’m not a fan of editing stuff in the registry. And even thogh I’d have a plan to allow the stick to move a very little bit, there is still the risk that I might just hate force sensing (and force sensing is wrong for almost all other aircraft). Of course, if a X65 pops up for 300€ (350€ if with rudder pedals) or less, I’d still buy it.
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You may still try your luck with a used Cougar. I bought mine used in pretty good nick, but after a few years I noticed the pots really started to get old. (axis drifting). But Vipergear sell a ‘drop-in’ hall sensor kit that works very well and it wasn’t that expensive at all.
And now my Cougar is as sharp as she must have been straight out of the box.If you want full 1:1 mapping with the real F-16C HOTAS, a Cougar (or TQS+WH) would be your best option.
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I dont understand where people get the automatic assumption that force sensing sticks are exclusive only to f16 (or fbw). Ive flown with x65 since it was released and have no issues flying precision maneuvers with traditional aircraft like ww2 and helos alike. As long as u have a concept of trim then its more than adequate for most everything. From my personal experience, you will have a frustrating time with X52/55/56/or warthog doing precision flying. Sometimes i might come off as a troll on these forums because i rear my ugly head to reiterate this repeatedly and sound like a broken record, but its because ive flown in wings with countless people who buy those junk sticks thinking theyre great mid level sticks only to quickly get frustrated and quit altogether because they dont think they have what it takes to AAR for example, when its really more to do with crummy hardware they have to contend with (yes, those sticks are THAT BAD). Not saying that with a butt load of practice it cant be achieved with these toys, people even do it on gamepads, but i recommend doing yourself a favor and saving the headache. You dont have to spend extra money either to get good quality. Fighterstick, t16000 and warbrd are all far superior choices if u cant find an x65
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Well, I certainly haven’t heard of a force sensing stick being used on any other production aircraft (though I did hear somewhere it was used on the Commanche). TBH, if you want a truly realistic experience with any other combat aircraft, you need to rig up a center stick of some sort, preferably with a long shaft. That doesn’t change the fact that the x65 is a fine stick, at least according to those who use it.