Suggestion for database, data supply
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I found at least one strange data, the AGM-45.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-45.html
What is in new dat file?
BURN TIME BREAKPOINTS
BRNTIM
5
0.0 0.25 2.10 2.500 3.10ENGINE THRUST (LBS)
THRST1
0.0 8330.0 7330.0 6630.0 0.0
Where came this data? Total impulse is very high, but why is bigger the trust about 1.5 times as in booster phase for AIM-7F/M? Very strange.
I take fuel weight data drom here:
And medium “specific impulse” ~ 242, from here:
such a way:
242*92 = 22264 Motor Impulse. (22264/3 = ~ 7420 lb per sec on the average)Some open sources of information in russian, provide the following information: Burn Time of the motor 3sec. The total impulse of about 10,000 kg / s. (22050 lb)
But, Now become know of other data: “MK-39: “specific impulse” = 225 s. The MK-39 solid-fuel rocket engine is the US Shrike AGM-45A’s counter radiation missile engine.”
such a way it should be: 92 *225 = 20700 (20700/3= ~6900 lb per sec on the average)
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Thx. In this case the airframe and size of rocket engine makes possible the bigger thrust, but this means very short burn time. I have to say in this case the range of AGM-45 is quite limited.
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How are calculated the engagement distance of SAMs if the target relative approach speed is smaller than 0? If you put a SAM on your 3/9 the approach speed is 0.
In dat file the range is defined only for 0 speed. If target approaching to a SAM and range data in dat file + DB + radar data make possible the SAMs use their max. range. What is the problem? SAMs engeage at very small distance targets which approach velocity component is negative. For ex. in my MOD an SA-10 is able to engage an approach target which are flying on 10k feet and speed is about M0.8 and SAM is at 11/1 hour, the launch distance can be ~28 nm. The SAM does not engage a target which flying away from SAM at SAM is on its '6 the max- launch distance about 12-13 nm regardless the NEZ is much bigger.
Should be defined another breakpoint in the dat files which concernong for negative velocity component? What about aspect parameter?
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Are you considering that ALL sams behave different from 0-1500feet, from 1500-10000feet and +10kfeet?
The reason has nothing to do wiht DB or misdata, but is generally defined in other files.
Just asking …. -
Yes, I know but as in Falcon, because some weapon parameters are close, can be used stadaradized data regardless of no data.
I do not know that velocity aspect is dat files means the speed of launch platform - in this case for SAMs this have no use - or the velocity of the target. I created a 3.14 aspect point with rages for testing.
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Honestly…as you experiment alot with certain things… you should make a list of your findings and post them as such so they can be verified, tested…confirmed eventually and implemented in next releases. Otherwise i believe much valueable testing-feedbacks and
findings will get lost.
Personally i am always eyes and ears open in forums to pick up good ideas which make sense…but its hard sometimes to do so. -
I set the same range values for 3.14 aspect as 0 aspect but nothing changed in “chasing” cases. I expect the same launch distance as in approaching cases. Strange. I know that these values are used. If I set very low value for 0 aspect SAM does not engage me regardless the radar and range data in DB are allowing.
One behavior is can be reproduced. Close to max. eng range when your aspect close to +/- 90 deg (3/9 line) the SAM launch a missile immediately if it have been tracked you for seconds.
What about reaction times? I can see values for radar dat files but it seems to me they are not used. The reaction time of older SAMs is much bigger currently comparing with RL values.
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For reaction time I think about these values.
Timetosearch1 10000
Timetosearch2 10000
Timetosearch3 10000
Timetoacuire 10000
Timetoguide 7000
Timetocoast 1500I tried to change for testing more than one SAM type and independently only one value but it has 0 effect.
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Small update
Later I will try to finish the Stingers and other missiles not included in the zip archive.Check the sa2.dat, there is a strange value at M0.0 at 16 deg AOA, instead 0.8 you typed 0.08
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It is strange that PIDS are not modeled at least for certain MLUs. I know in RL PIDS are not availabe on all F-16s an in Falcon only data file can control dispenser locations and decoy qty. If anyone wishes I can make data edits as way that PIDS will contain 2x3x15 flares and the 3 cartridges in fuselage with 3x30 chaff. The flares can be released as I have done for MiG-29, similar to the version A in the video. After each release one flare comes on opposite side.
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ATM, AM-B have 120 chaff and 60 flare, to simulate the PIDS. BTW, in your screen you should have 60 flares and (3x30)x2, Pids both side.
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ATM, AM-B have 120 chaff and 60 flare, to simulate the PIDS. BTW, in your screen you should have 60 flares and (3x30)x2, Pids both side.
I do not understand the values. In a single cartridge you can load 30 chaff (RR-170 or RR-180) or 15 flares (MJU-7). In PIDS are 2x3 slot and 3(?) more inbuilt in the fueselage. 120/60 config requires 4+4 slots but with PIDS at least all F-16s can have 9. If MLUs have 4 fuselage cartridges they have 10 slots.
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nChaff 90
nFlare 90
FlareSeq 0
FlareDispensers 2
FlarePos1 -4.11 -9 3
FlarePos2 -4.11 9 3
FlareVec1 0 -60 10
FlareVec2 0 60 10
FlareCount1 30
ChaffSeq 0
ChaffDispensers 1
ChaffPos1 -4.11 -3.01 3.12
ChaffVec1 0 -0 50
ChaffCount1 30 -
nice job molni, IIRC the EPAF MLU countrys only have Pids on 1 wingside (right)
time 0.36, 0.48 vs 0.58 (left wing) -
But are they able to carry two PIDS, aren’t they?
If I model only on one wing, how should be defined the qty. and locations? Can be loaded the PIDs with mixed decoys? If the answer is yes, I set (2+2)x15 flares, altering between fusalage and PIDS, and 1+1 chaff dispenser with 30+30 decoys. If the answer is not the setting should be different. I have never used flarecount value but maybe defines the maximum qty. of a dispenser loacations therefore the “qty. imbalance” can be modeled. For ex if I set all PIDs for flares and one flare cartridge in fuselage it means 3x15 in PIDs and 1x15 in fusalage. So if I set flarecount for fuselage location to 15 and 45 for PIDs after dropping 30 flares only the PIDS location is used.
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Sure they can but like everything in RL: cost issue
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Sure they can but like everything in RL: cost issue
Considering that in BMS4 all AC can have TGP and ECM - which is not true in RL - IMHO this kind of overmodeling is not a serious issue… Of course because of the modeling of Falcom the ECM pod is not a perfect example becaue in RL the ECM of another AC can protect the AC close to the AC which has ECM but in Falcon this is not possible.
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Theyre are something wrong in the video I think.
IRL, Flare cannot be used in the PIDS, only in the back case of the fuselage. So the Flare need to be drop downside.
In futur, I know that is something for made flare compatible on the PIDS, but is not done ATM.BTW, I never sayd that the current count is correct ;).
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Considering that in BMS4 all AC can have TGP and ECM - which is not true in RL - IMHO this kind of overmodeling is not a serious issue… Of course because of the modeling of Falcom the ECM pod is not a perfect example becaue in RL the ECM of another AC can protect the AC close to the AC which has ECM but in Falcon this is not possible.
true, but if you look up all epaf movies on youtube you can see they only carry 1 pid
and article underneath clearly states 3 OR 7 (not and)here some extra feedback
Pylon Integrated Dispenser
The RDAF’s F-16s have been given extra wiring to the no. 3 and 7 wing stations, in order to be able to accept the Pylon Integrated Dispenser Station. The PIDS is manufactured by Per Udsen Co. Aircraft Industry (Terma A/S since 1997) in Denmark, and is in fact a pylon equipped with chaff dispensers. Normal configuration is to carry a PIDS on either 3 or 7 station, and the Advanced Miniature Jamming System (AN/ALQ-10) on the opposite pylon. AMJS is a very powerful system comparable with the AN/ALQ-131 series, and is also built in Denmark.
The chaff dispenser used by the RDAF right now is the RR-170 with 30 chaff cartridges in each. After briefly considering the RR-180, the RDAF has ordered a new type called Cherming Chaff Block (CCB) from Cherming Ltd., England. The CCB is the same size as the RR-170 but carries 60 charges.
All chaff/flare/ECM activity is controlled by the (digital) Electronic Warfare Management System (EWMS) which is made by the Danish company Terma. The mechanical firing mechanism in the chaff/flare canisters have also been replaced by a digital one from Danish origin.
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IRL, Flare cannot be used in the PIDS
Are you sure? In this case the marketing video what I saw was a simple lie…
It showed the PIDS linked with MAWS, in the CGI video F-16 dropped flares from both PIDS agains a MANPAD. I know that markering videos many times cannot be trusted and they are not 100% correct but this is far beyond what can be called “marketing strategy”…