SA2 launches
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SA-2 are command guided not sami-active.
There is no optical fire ability in Falcon (Fan Song-F radar and V-750SM missiles)
Yes there is a problem with terrian masking in BMS, seen it on numerious occasions. AF was more consistant.
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can you go into what “command guided” means? i see it on a lot of things in the threat guide. i checked wikipedia. what’s the difference between SARH and command? don’t both use a central radar system to guide the missile(?)
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Command is remote steering. The command platform has target data somehow and is steering the missile with commands. For example with command guidance it’s not a requirement for the target to actually exist. It’s perfectly valid for a real command guidance missile to be driven toward a completely fictitious target. The command missile doesn’t necessarily have to possess a seeker at all.
For SARH missile like Sparrow this is of course impossible. There must be a real physical object to reflect radar energy. SARH the missile sees a “bright spot” because something is shining a “flashlight” on it. Some kind of seeker is radar dish is needed in the missile.
What does it mean in real life? What does it mean in BMS? It depends on how the differences are used or are exploitable weaknesses. I think in BMS it doesn’t matter the difference for SA-2. If you kill or deny Fan Song radar contact you have won. But real life it is maybe possible for SA-2 to launch on IADS information and do some/all of guidance without primary radar. It’s possible to do optical tracking to silent launch. I think command and SARH have inherently different resistance to ECM too.
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Command guidance has a radar guidance platform that tracks the target and sends instructions to the missile. The guidance platform does not know the missile position, therefor the missile navigates from a common datum and the guidance platform sends target position to the missile via datalink. The missile is equip with INS/GPS position sys. It seem Command guidance in airborne system does not have the accuracy for end game and needs HOJ or ARH not sure about ground base.
SARH is a beam rider. Command guidance at launch witch includes launcher elevation/azimuth for lead and loft is common. No datalink after launch that I know of,
TVM guidance tracks both the target and it’s missile. The guidance platform steers the missile into the target via datalink. Endgame includes a radar prox fuse.
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What they said.
But SARH is not beam riding. The KA-50 uses the 9K121 Vikhr http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K121_Vikhr which is a true Beam Riding Air2Ground weapon.
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@Cik:
can you go into what “command guided” means? i see it on a lot of things in the threat guide. i checked wikipedia. what’s the difference between SARH and command? don’t both use a central radar system to guide the missile(?)
In short. The “barin” for Sz-75/125 are on the ground the missile is guided from the ground to target towards to a calculated impact point. In SARH missiles the “brain” is are in the missile the missile guide itself but requires target illumination from the ground.
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SARH is a beam rider. Command guidance at launch witch includes launcher elevation/azimuth for lead and loft is common. No datalink after launch that I know of.
There is a big difference between beam riding missiles and SARH missiles. For one, beam riders do not calculate intercept parameters like lead and elevation
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weird behavior does seem to stick with the SA2 as I reported last week though thankfully your initial responses were not basically calling you a liar. The post is now locked yet you can see I was tracked and downed by Sa2 with no Sa2 radar fan song B in rwr or HAS locking me; weird yes. I have also see R77 almost hit me and can clearly see the missile right behind me as I race away barely evading it and wow that was awesome! BMS does model sams going active danger close making the fun even better!
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There’s different kinds of command systems also.
How does the S-2 FCR know where the missile is? -
There is a big difference between beam riding missiles and SARH missiles. For one, beam riders do not calculate intercept parameters like lead and elevation
Exactly. Moreover beam rinding technology was so crap that just after the '50s meant a dead end in radar guidance evolution.
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Beam-riding is a form of command guidance in common parlance. Arguably the command platform is “setting up the condition for which the missile is deciding to move autonomously” but no one thinks this way. The guidance field created by the command platform is artificial, required for continued guidance, and usually there is little to no decision making made by the missile. It’s being commanded by the ground rather directly.
The SA-2 missile has a beacon in the tail of the missile and is tracked by ground systems.
AFAIK any missile with an ARM terminal seeker does so. Few SAMs have this feature though.
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regarding min launch alt, ive heard that in BMS this is set to MSL, so beware if you are in hilly terrain, as the QNH for that area my be higher, effectively making the min launch altitude for the SA-2 0’ ft if high enough!
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Beam-riding is a form of command guidance in common parlance. Arguably the command platform is “setting up the condition for which the missile is deciding to move autonomously” but no one thinks this way. The guidance field created by the command platform is artificial, required for continued guidance, and usually there is little to no decision making made by the missile. It’s being commanded by the ground rather directly.
The SA-2 missile has a beacon in the tail of the missile and is tracked by ground systems.
AFAIK any missile with an ARM terminal seeker does so. Few SAMs have this feature though.
imo, it’s to broad of a definition. ppl like their terminology tight and neat. Also the only two commands are hit my target or go ballistic.
Why would a ARM (-88?) need a tracking beacon?
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I was very tired. I meant ARH not ARM. But I have no idea what I was trying to say about ARH though! I think I was saying that most missiles with ARH terminal seekers have command guidance en route, but I can’t be sure. I had the stupid!!
Which SAMs in BMS are capable of terminal guidance without LOS or existence (kaboom!) of host? I know SA-10 has TVM but that still requires LOS at least for illumination.
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Which SAMs in BMS are capable of terminal guidance without LOS or existence (kaboom!) of host? I know SA-10 has TVM but that still requires LOS at least for illumination.
As I know none. Even if you experience this it is just a modeling flaw in breaking radar lock because of weak LOS modeling. None of the SAMs have onboard radar.