Combine Warthog stick and Cougar throttle
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This question must have been asked before, but I can’t find it.
Is it possible to combine a Warthog stick and a Cougar throttle?? And how to do this, there might be a document on this subject??
Many thx, Vordy
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@Vordy87th:
This question must have been asked before, but I can’t find it.
Is it possible to combine a Warthog stick and a Cougar throttle?? And how to do this, there might be a document on this subject??
Many thx, Vordy
A simple way is putting the WARTHOG stick on your cougar base. All you will lose is the CMS “IN” press, otherwise it is wired all the same.
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There are couple of things to keep in mind if u want to do this. First, The cougar throttle has to be plugged into the cougar joystick to work. Unless you buy a USB adapter called tusba. http://realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html
BMS will recognize the warthog stick and the default cougar or the tusba and allow you to bind functions to them, however on the secondary controller you will lose hat functions. So part of your device will not work. This quirk is why profiles like morphine’s rely on the target software. It combines both devices into 1 virtual device so that all the buttons on the hotas can be used. If you want all the buttons to work then you will have to use software.
If you use the cougar and the warthog stick you can make use of target. You will have to make your own script for that. However if you go with the tusba you will not be able to combine the throttle and joystick via target. You will need another piece of software. I would recommend Joystick Gremlin. Again you will have to make a custom profile, but joystick Gremlin is a bit easier to deal with than target. So there you go you have about 3 ways to do this. Let us know how it works out for you.
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Thx Marvin157th, but I meant it as Gastone interpreted it.
And thx Gastone, I will have to study your options
Let’s check whether I understood them correctly.1. Use both Cougar bases and as Marvin157th suggested, I could put the Warthog stick on the Cougar base. That is not my preferred solution, since my Cougar stick base probably has a defect.
2. Using a Tusba, the Cougar throttle is the secondary controller, right?? Can you be more specific on the functions I will lose from the throttle plse.
3. Combining Warthog stick and Cougar throttle requires Joystick Gremlin and a custom profile. Since I have no in-depth knowledge of profile building, I am just a ‘quick and dirty’ customizer. So, not a attractive option as well. Unless Gremlin profiles like Morphine/Gastone are available somewhere. Do you have insight in this ??
So and as usual, all options have pros and cons
Based on your future answers I probably can do a down-select.Many thx, Cheers Vordy
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Honestly, the best solution these days are to just get rid of the cougar software and guts all together. Purchase some Leo Bodnar joystick device boards and wire your switches directly to that. Its quite easy as this is how I did my real throttle and stick. It just becomes a simple joystick device in windows and you are not messing with 14 year old software.
The downside is you can’t really program your buttons for multi-functions. But I do believe there is some third party software to do that, but not 100% sure.
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you could also look into vjoy and “joystick gremlin”, a forum search here should get you going.
All the best, Uwe
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Honestly, the best solution these days are to just get rid of the cougar software and guts all together.
You might be right Marvin157th, Cougars are outdated stuff and cannot even be bought these days anymore.
But … quite a lot vpilots still use the good old Cougar without any problems.
And … I prefer the Cougar, since it is a F-16 replica and I only fly BMS F-16’s. WH is technically more advanced, but flying a F-16 with a A-10 throttle is like steering a car with a joystick -
I have three Cougar TQSs and did a Bodner conversion on one of them - it’s not hard, and it also makes the TQS usable with either a Mac or a PC. It also gets you 12 bit sampling vice 10, with is really an improvement.
If one wanted to go all out, one could replace the guts in each with a Pokeys 57U card, and then use PoBlocks to program layered/multi function into each.
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@Vordy87th:
You might be right Marvin157th, Cougars are outdated stuff and cannot even be bought these days anymore.
But … quite a lot vpilots still use the good old Cougar without any problems.
And … I prefer the Cougar, since it is a F-16 replica and I only fly BMS F-16’s. WH is technically more advanced, but flying a F-16 with a A-10 throttle is like steering a car with a joystickAbsolutely… In my opinion the best setup is Cougar Throttle and Warthog stick along with an FCC3 or FSSB3 etc. The Warthog stick is WAY better than the old cougar stick and closer resembles an F-16 stick. As a matter of fact when I put the warthog stick beside my real F-16 stick you can barely tell the difference.
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Absolutely… In my opinion the best setup is Cougar Throttle and Warthog stick along with an FCC3 or FSSB3 etc. The Warthog stick is WAY better than the old cougar stick and closer resembles an F-16 stick. As a matter of fact when I put the warthog stick beside my real F-16 stick you can barely tell the difference.
Second!
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Absolutely… In my opinion the best setup is Cougar Throttle and Warthog stick along with an FCC3 or FSSB3 etc. The Warthog stick is WAY better than the old cougar stick and closer resembles an F-16 stick. As a matter of fact when I put the warthog stick beside my real F-16 stick you can barely tell the difference.
If possible, I certainly would go for that. Gastone explained that a Tusba is needed and also quite some programming in Gremlin, correct?? Since I’m not a skilled programmer, I also would need a ready profile. Are BMS F-16 Gremlin profiles available somewhere??
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I also have a Warthog/TUSBA setup…no programming required - just use the BMS assignment interface and the TUSBA config software for your TQS. Pretty much plug and play.
May the bridges I burn light the way
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Thx Stevie, getting closer and closer to the optimal solution here. Can you plse be a bit more specific. Are you saying that it’s possible to load any BMS keyfile and profile??
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I am using my Cougar throttle and a Warthog stick. My blog (here on the BMS forum “blog” section) shows how I’m doing it.
As my still-incomplete blog entries show, I am very unsophisticated in my knowledge, and am doing it the “crude” way, just plugging my Cougar TQS / SSC into my computer (that’s one USB connection) AND my Warthog SSC only into my computer (that’s a second USB connection). I am able to get the throttle functionality from my Cougar throttle, and the joystick functionality from my Warthog stick. Buttons, hat switches, etc…, seem to do “what they would really do” in the F-16.
However, due to my lack of knowledge, I am probably losing out on the benefits of things like the TUSBA. I might get a greater range of input values from my throttle, for example, if I could figure out how to properly use my TUSBA. I’ve just been too dense / busy / lazy to properly understand all of the digital incantations and sorcery needed to make things like that work. But one day I’ll get it sorted. For now I’m just glad I have the “authentic” TQS and SSC, and I like the Warthog stick better than the older Cougar stick.
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I might get a greater range of input values from my throttle, for example, if I could figure out how to properly use my TUSBA.
That’s the lack of throttle functionality as Gastone described above, I assume ?!
You installed both Cougar and Warthog drivers ??
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@Vordy87th:
Thx Stevie, getting closer and closer to the optimal solution here. Can you plse be a bit more specific. Are you saying that it’s possible to load any BMS keyfile and profile??
In a roundabout way - you still have to assign the key bindings for specific controllers; if you have one . What I do is to use the BMS Setup interface itself and save individual Setup files for each controller. I’m only beginning to use Keyfile Editor, so I can’t say I’m as familiar with how that works. Of course, as long as you are using an unmodded Warthog stick you can also always still use TARGET for setting it up for layers, shifts, etc.
Setting up the TUSBA is also very straightforward - the biggest benefit being that TUSBA Setup also provides key setup for functions, and most importantly the Cancel MRM/SRM command when that switch is centered. I can’t recommend the TUSBA enough - very nice little add-on for getting the TQS working on it’s own!
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@Vordy87th:
That’s the lack of throttle functionality as Gastone described above, I assume ?!
You installed both Cougar and Warthog drivers ??
There are two pieces to the TUSBA puzzle - the Setup Tool, and firmware. I’ve found that certain firmware has worked better or worse in certain setups…and that the folks at RealSim are very responsive in making corrections or providing support if you email them.
Also - there is an option in the Setup Tool for sim builders that accounts for the actual sub-idle cutoff position of a real throttle arm. I have to suspect that people aren’t getting “full travel” with their TUSBA equipped TQSs because they have this option selected in the calibration in TUSBA Setup. May want to check that.
May the bridges I burn light the way
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Here’s what I was referring to when I said “I might get a greater range of input values from my throttle, for example, if I could figure out how to properly use my TUSBA.” … keep in mind, though, that I am not very confident of what I am about to say. It’s speculation based on something I think I recall reading here on the forum once… I am quite happy to stand corrected if I have this wrong:
By “range of input values from my throttle”, what I mean is something like the concept of “bit depth” in digital photography. For example, I might take a picture with a camera that reports the brightness value from each of the detector’s pixels in a range from 0-255 `brightness units’. 0 is black, 255 is as bright white as the (monitor, printer, whatever) can display. That range of numbers is 256 = 2^8, thus “8 bits”. If I get a better camera, it might be a “16-bit” camera, and the files it creates could have pixel brightness ranges that vary from 0 to 65,535. 65,536 = 2^16, so it’s a “16-bit” image.
This greater bit depth comes from a combination of the capabilities of the sensor chip itself, as well as some associated circuitry called the analog-digital converter. That package of technology determines the “bit depth” of the camera.
Now here’s where I may really be going off the deep end - apologies if I’m quite wrong in applying that analogy to flight sim throttles and joysticks…
I assume that a device like the throttle potentiometer in my Cougar TQS varies some parameter of an electric current, such as the amount of current (amperes) or the voltage of the current (volts). And I assume that a potentiometer can vary that parameter in a more-or-less continuous way, over some range. I further assume (perhaps wrongly) that a HOTAS like the Cougar or Warthog has something akin to an analog-digital converter in it, or that perhaps such a function is handled in my computer. Thus, if I’m right, BMS is seeing a number that tells it what my throttle setting currently is. If that number could only vary from 0 to 1 (“1-bit”), then the throttle could only be fully on or fully off. But if it can vary over a large range of numbers, with the top of that range representing max afterburner and the 0 representing engine cutoff, then I could vary the thrust of my virtual engine very delicately, such as for aerial refueling. There would be other issues, such as stiction in the mechanism of how the throttle rotates, and in the range of current/voltage/whatever covered by the potentiometer.
I have a vague memory of reading that if I use a TUSBA to connect my Cougar TQS to my computer, it’s doing a "higher-bit-depth’ conversion from analog to digital. I could be totally wrong about that, and I don’t remember where I “read” that, if I really read it at all. But if I’m partially correct, then that would be a reason for me to get my head out of my nether regions and figure out how to make my TUSBA function correctly. It might give me more delicate control over my virtual Viper’s engine.
… If I’m even correct about any of what I just said… and I might not be…
I think one reason I’ve been so slow to learn about the details of HOTAS programming is because of my obsession with “making my HOTAS do exactly what it would do in the real aircraft”. For that, at present, it seems like I have pretty much achieved that just by using the Setup->Controllers options in the sim, along with the Cougar Control Program. Lots of people clearly like to use programs like Foxy or Target to make their HOTAS’s do lots of other things. I’m not criticizing that at all, I have no reason to. Those users have clearly found lots of good reasons to want to make their HOTAS controls do all sorts of useful things.
But, with my “obsessed with reality” mind, I got to the point where my HOTAS seemed to “do what the real plane’s controls do” and basically stopped there. I am probably missing out on a whole world of useful functionality, and perhaps better control over the virtual aircraft, but my mind has just kind of blanked out. I try to understand Target, or profiles, or key bindings, and I just turn into one of the ape-men from “2001”, staring at the monolith XD Mostly I’m afraid I’ll disrupt my fragile “realism” (notice the quotes there) if I go beyond what I’ve done.
Buuuut… if there’s any truth to my half-baked ideas about “bit depth”, then there’s still a good reason to try and go farther!
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…so, in this instance the TUSBA replaces the Cougar 10 bit resolution board with a 12 bit resolution interface. Yes, it’s a noticeable improvement.
Bodner conversion does this too.
May the bridges I burn light the way
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Mylonite470, I’ve read your comments above a couple of times. But to be honest, I’ve no clue what you are trying to say. I’m afraid they are a bit off-topic. It’s also possible that my bit-depth-insights are missing your point completely
I’ve started this thread with a simple straight forward question: Is it possible to combine a Warthog stick and a Cougar throttle?? I have no idea how your comments can help to answer this question.
