Chengdu J-20
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By the way, fo those who never heard about J-20 (and I suppose there is some) here is the real bird :
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Have you managed to get the real flight manual and specs or do you plan a “fantasy” airplane?
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J-20 is 21st century’s MIG-25.
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Have you managed to get the real flight manual and specs or do you plan a “fantasy” airplane?
it can’t be done.
but i m totally ok with this fantasy plane. just make it a rival of F-22. this will make the game more fun. -
I appreciate any effort but I simply do not get the point of J-20.
The following things are missing to any 5th generation airplanes to be modeled. In fact for many 4th gen or even for the MiG-31.- RCS modeling. As long as you cannot set at least a general behavior the 2-3 scale difference depending on aspect it is pointless any stealth airframe because they are simply even more OP gameplay wise.
- Is not PESA/AESA modeling as I know. This is needed even for MiG-31 or SA-10, SA-15 and Patriot + some naval ships which has combined guidance (TVM)
- MAWS is not modeled. Not the imaging tech. based but any kind.
- DAS is similar systems to DAS.
- If you want human playable jets except the F-22A all other 5th gen AC have different displays.
- Flight performance data
Of course anybody can develop as he/she wishes but would not better to work on such 3D models which are useful for every theater. Even all of the issues could be solved above only for KTO is relevant the J-20 which is still not have entered service and is 0 data about its flight performance.
MiG-21PF, MF, bis
MiG-23ML, MF, MLD
MiG-29 9.12
F-4D,E
Su-30 familycould be useable in most of theaters. Because they were widely exported only a skin is needed for 3rd party theater. Israeli, German (F-4F was a special E variant), Korean, Japanese whatever. Same case for the MiG-21/23s.
The Su-30s are usable for more up to date theaters. They are good for Europe, Mediterrean, KTO, Kurile, Nordic whatever. Even the J-7 or J-8 are more important than J-20.J-20? Only KTO and it would be a pure fantasy jet.
IHMO the point of the core DB to provide more and better material for every possible other theater. The J-20 simply does not meet this function at all.
After so many years these jets which flew much beyond the Cold War deserve a decent 3D model. -
I appreciate any effort but I simply do not get the point of J-20.
……
…i disagree. why we have to wait for a “real data” of some plane? why not fantasy? do u think those data of F-15 Su-27 is 100% real? how about T-72 and M1A1?
if we wait for “perfect” for everything, nothing can be done. just do it from sketch, just do it from bad, just do it.for decades, <falcon>have plenty 3rd 4th gen jets, but only 1 5th gen jet, it deserves 1 more. just 1 more.
and FYI, J-20 is in service. in 2019 parade of BeiJing, this jet shows on. only mass production weapons can be showed in parade. prototypes r never showed.</falcon>
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I appreciate any effort but I simply do not get the point of J-20.
The following things are missing to any 5th generation airplanes to be modeled. In fact for many 4th gen or even for the MiG-31.- RCS modeling. As long as you cannot set at least a general behavior the 2-3 scale difference depending on aspect it is pointless any stealth airframe because they are simply even more OP gameplay wise.
- Is not PESA/AESA modeling as I know. This is needed even for MiG-31 or SA-10, SA-15 and Patriot + some naval ships which has combined guidance (TVM)
- MAWS is not modeled. Not the imaging tech. based but any kind.
- DAS is similar systems to DAS.
- If you want human playable jets except the F-22A all other 5th gen AC have different displays.
- Flight performance data
Of course anybody can develop as he/she wishes but would not better to work on such 3D models which are useful for every theater. Even all of the issues could be solved above only for KTO is relevant the J-20 which is still not have entered service and is 0 data about its flight performance.
MiG-21PF, MF, bis
MiG-23ML, MF, MLD
MiG-29 9.12
F-4D,E
Su-30 familycould be useable in most of theaters. Because they were widely exported only a skin is needed for 3rd party theater. Israeli, German (F-4F was a special E variant), Korean, Japanese whatever. Same case for the MiG-21/23s.
The Su-30s are usable for more up to date theaters. They are good for Europe, Mediterrean, KTO, Kurile, Nordic whatever. Even the J-7 or J-8 are more important than J-20.J-20? Only KTO and it would be a pure fantasy jet.
IHMO the point of the core DB to provide more and better material for every possible other theater. The J-20 simply does not meet this function at all.
After so many years these jets which flew much beyond the Cold War deserve a decent 3D model.I’m absolutely not interested by this kind of post. I expected it, I read it, and I will simply ignore it : I have no due to you.
Fantasy you said ? 28 J-20 are in service, deployed at Wuhu Air Base.
I wish everybody a nice weekend !
Cheers,
Radium
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Awesome Project ! I welcome it, really glad to see more Asian assets and especially the ones which will bring much needed colors to KTO.
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i disagree. why we have to wait for a “real data” of some plane? why not fantasy? do u think those data of F-15 Su-27 is 100% real? how about T-72 and M1A1?
if we wait for “perfect” for everything, nothing can be done. just do it from sketch, just do it from bad, just do it.for decades, <falcon>have plenty 3rd 4th gen jets, but only 1 5th gen jet, it deserves 1 more. just 1 more.
and FYI, J-20 is in service. in 2019 parade of BeiJing, this jet shows on. only mass production weapons can be showed in parade. prototypes r never showed.</falcon>
1. BMS4 is not a tank simulator. Land combat is simply more abstracted. This part of your comment is simply irrelevant because of this. Land combat is very, very, very abstracted and simplified because they are “just” targets. Didn’t you noticed in the older version in any Falcon how OP were the artillery? A simple arty battalion eradicated without any effort two full tank battalion. Because of this in my Korea '80s MOD for 4.32 I had to reduce seriously their size and qty.
2. The BMS4 is so accurate concerning of F-15 that you can reproduce within 1-2% accuracy the Streak Eagle climb records. Just set different empty weight and do not forget the weather. Yes, the weather setting is needed the winter temp. instead the spring/summer. When I tried first I simply did not understand what can be the problem. I set the temp and a “miracle happened”.
This was the most inaccurate because of more than 1 maneuver longer time and the exceptionally high alt which means you fly across the whole modeled atmosphere.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/fjxtwaz3gh36030/Streak-Eagle-30km.vhs/file3. The IOC term today is a very value lost term since the last 20 years. In '70s the IOC for F-15 meant it could go to combat with full armament. Not “if” and “and”. It could go. Period. For F-35 or any other jets today n+1 times you can read ‘now is in service’. Than later, ‘now is’… Do you know what means IOC for Rafale? Gun + SR IR AAM… For F-35? One type of LGB and AIM-9 on external. This meant the “IOC”…
I’m absolutely not interested by this kind of post. I expected it, I read it, and I will simply ignore it : I have no due to you.
Fantasy you said ? 28 J-20 are in service, deployed at Wuhu Air Base.
I wish everybody a nice weekend !
Cheers,
Radium
It meant “fantasy” that you cannot set any of its modeling values. Even its empty weight is not known. You cannot model its features as quality and you cannot set its parameters considering values.
Of course go ahead but I simply cannot get it. Using this approach the next jet could be an X-Wing fighter… -
I would prefer a Millennium Falcon in fact…
Enviado desde mi T3 Pro mediante Tapatalk
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Hold your horses gentlemen!
There seems to be a linguistic problem here.
Surely the statement : this j-20 will be a fantasy was meant as “we don’t have this and that system implemented in bms, we don’t know this and that about its systems, flight model, etc”. I don’t think it was meant as “j-20 is imaginary product of propaganda”.But honestly, first of all Radium does 3d models and pretty good ones,but not avionics, flight models (I may be wrong of course). And even if we don’t have the “backend” for 5th generation of Fighters - well someone has to start somewhere, right? And having a good 3d model is a good start. Perhaps someone somewhere down the road will come around and provide the “backend”.
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1. BMS4 is not a tank simulator. Land combat is simply more abstracted. This part of your comment is simply irrelevant because of this. Land combat is very, very, very abstracted and simplified because they are “just” targets. Didn’t you noticed in the older version in any Falcon how OP were the artillery? A simple arty battalion eradicated without any effort two full tank battalion. Because of this in my Korea '80s MOD for 4.32 I had to reduce seriously their size and qty.
2. The BMS4 is so accurate concerning of F-15 that you can reproduce within 1-2% accuracy the Streak Eagle climb records. Just set different empty weight and do not forget the weather. Yes, the weather setting is needed the winter temp. instead the spring/summer. When I tried first I simply did not understand what can be the problem. I set the temp and a “miracle happened”.
This was the most inaccurate because of more than 1 maneuver longer time and the exceptionally high alt which means you fly across the whole modeled atmosphere.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/fjxtwaz3gh36030/Streak-Eagle-30km.vhs/file3. The IOC term today is a very value lost term since the last 20 years. In '70s the IOC for F-15 meant it could go to combat with full armament. Not “if” and “and”. It could go. Period. For F-35 or any other jets today n+1 times you can read ‘now is in service’. Than later, ‘now is’… Do you know what means IOC for Rafale? Gun + SR IR AAM… For F-35? One type of LGB and AIM-9 on external. This meant the “IOC”…
It meant “fantasy” that you cannot set any of its modeling values. Even its empty weight is not known. You cannot model its features as quality and you cannot set its parameters considering values.
Of course go ahead but I simply cannot get it. Using this approach the next jet could be an X-Wing fighter…Can’t wait for him to make a X-Wing just to see what you will write.
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I appreciate any effort
Most probably he doesn’t do it for you, right?
but I simply do not get the point of J-20
Aside it is HIS choice, to offer whatever HE wants, (similar for getting help for your 1980-era obsession etc etc), there might be other people here too that actually like the airframe and want it as a “structure” in bms. No? Count the thanks and positive comments.
The following things are missing to any 5th generation airplanes to be modeled. In fact for many 4th gen or even for the MiG-31.
To be honest, if you go down by the book, do you have any idea how many things are missing from our “F-16’s” ??? Do you want a LIST ???
Do you know how many CT records the DB should have, following this logic?
Of course anybody can develop as he/she wishes
Maybe this should be stated in the forum rules and end-user right too.
but would not better to work on such 3D models which are useful for every theater
F-16A would fit in what theaters?
IHMO
Just think that sentences starting with this 4 letters mostly point to a user ban in another forums lol !! (ehh DCS funboyz) / Joke mode off
But seriously, his answer was spot-on, IMHO.
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Molni,
no need to try to push me to revoke my choice or to bring me cazy, it worked before, it won’t anymore.
I’m most peaceful because I enjoy my life, my real life job, my family, the fact that I will go to ski next weekend and because I enjoy being a BMS dev.
Enjoy your weekend !
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1. Didn’t you noticed in the older version in any Falcon how OP were the artillery? A simple arty battalion eradicated without any effort two full tank battalion. Because of this in my Korea '80s MOD for 4.32 I had to reduce seriously their size and qty.
aha, i know how to fix this, but i need some time to recall.
i wrote it in here few years ago.The IOC term today is a very value lost term since the last 20 years. In '70s the IOC for F-15 meant it could go to combat with full armament. Not “if” and “and”. It could go. Period. For F-35 or any other jets today n+1 times you can read ‘now is in service’. Than later, ‘now is’… Do you know what means IOC for Rafale? Gun + SR IR AAM… For F-35? One type of LGB and AIM-9 on external. This meant the “IOC”…
“in service” for PLA means this weapon can be mass produced, and is being produced.
minor upgrades can be attached in the future, but upgrades won’t be allowed to interfere production speed. otherwise it is prototype, not in service. -
Most probably he doesn’t do it for you, right?
F-16A would fit in what theaters?Literally for every if you wish to leave the 2000s…
F-16A is my wet dream.“in service” for PLA means this weapon can be mass produced, and is being produced.
minor upgrades can be attached in the future, but upgrades won’t be allowed to interfere production speed. otherwise it is prototype, not in service.There is a huge difference between “accepted” and entered in service.
The service in less PR effected eras meant that the already mass produced airframes with trained regular pilots can be sent to any mission. For F-15 this mean when the first wing could be relocated to anywhere. -
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The service in less PR effected eras meant that the already mass produced airframes with trained regular pilots can be sent to any mission. For F-15 this mean when the first wing could be relocated to anywhere.
PR? public relation? when did u see chinese last weapon PR? I, a chinese, never saw it on TV or internet. official weapon introductions r always short, 1-2 minutes in news. is this PR?
china is not in war now, so i dunno how to prove ur “relocate to anywhere”. maybe the entire PLA is not in service? -
Special for you Molni, no need to wait :
Priceless :nosep::llama:
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This all topic is absolutely ridiculous.
@Radium - You as DEV should be feeding this kind of post. People indulge you too much, i don’t. Your work is amazing no doubt about it but that not all when it comes to BMS.
You are part of a team that is mostly concerned about other BMS aspects that deserve much more atencion than this new project. I will not point out how much the model will not be fully explored due to lack of AC information, nevertheless there are so many models that need care and dedication that i wonder once more why don’t you channel that creativity to here the community points out.
You can’t say “i do as i please” because you are part of the Dev Team. If you were a 3rd party modeller as i am you would be 100% correct.
What about F1CT that you abandoned?
What about the T-38 beautiful pit?
What about the F2?
What about the F18?You have so much unfinished ( and very useful to the community) projects yet you prefer to start one that will be very hard to come by some sort of IRL data. Even the surfaces work angles/velocities CL and CD tables for the most simple OFM data?
C´mon we are just saying. Focus your mind in the guideline of what the other devs are struggling to do.
My 2 cents…