Touchable main screen.
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Many person are using a second small touch screen for cockpit panels with hellios or etc.
By the way, big size LCD monitor (45" more) and touch overlay are very cheap in these days.
So devices is prepared that we can see and control simultaneously in main screen .
But Falcon BMS not support because the mouse input mechanism is relatively and get a difference of position.
I found a video from Youtube about Touchable Main Screen in Falcon 4 Allied Force (2007)
This prove that the upgrade is not impossible.
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That was done on the 2D cockpit of F4AF. As you have said, the implementation of the mouse in the 3D pit is different and thus makes it difficult to have the touchscreen as the main screen and operate stuff from the main screen.
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This post is deleted! -
That was done on the 2D cockpit of F4AF. As you have said, the implementation of the mouse in the 3D pit is different and thus makes it difficult to have the touchscreen as the main screen and operate stuff from the main screen.
I don’t think as you.
No matter it is 2D cockpit or 3D cockpit.
2D cockpit uses images for knobs and buttons. 3D cockpit uses models for these.
anyway, all is processed in the 3D graphic engine.As i know, delta value of sensing is only for a device level of mouse.
On the OS level, position value is absolute position within whole screen or widget area.
So I don’t understand why BMS team choose a relative way for mouse processing.By the way, i guess it is no need to rewrite whole code for mouse cockpit control.
it is need to just change from relative way to absolute way.
For absolute way we have to abandon the help of ‘Anchored Mouse Cursor’. -
2D cockpit or 3D cockpit is no matter.
So I don’t understand why BMS team choose a relative way for mouse processing.
Unfortunately, 2D vs. 3D cockpit does matter, and it’s exactly because of how the mouse works. Can DCS or other sims with clickable cockpits work as shown in the video?
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Unfortunately, 2D vs. 3D cockpit does matter, and it’s exactly because of how the mouse works. Can DCS or other sims with clickable cockpits work as shown in the video?
I have programmed with OpenGL. But i cant understand. Please explain how the mouse works.
DCS supports touching in main screen.
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Firstly, WOW!! That setup must eat a lot of fps!! Secondly, WOW!! But I still wouldn’t want to be hitting a “moving target.” Also note that this video is from 2012, the fps hit must be bigger by now.
As for how the mouse works in BMS, well, I’ll leave that up to the devs.
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Firstly, WOW!! That setup must eat a lot of fps!! Secondly, WOW!! But I still wouldn’t want to be hitting a “moving target.” Also note that this video is from 2012, the fps hit must be bigger by now.
As for how the mouse works in BMS, well, I’ll leave that up to the devs.
FPS is no relation with Touching. It depend on amount of pixels -how big resolution and how many monitor-
More than anything, I am talking about Falcon BMS have to have possiblity.
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well not absolutely sure about this belcowin.
Touching is actually a different mouse way. Mouse is vga controlled in the end. So touch drivers are an alternative mouse driver… so maybe there is a relation with fps in the way the driver operates or coworks with the vga drivers.
Normally it shouldn’t be an issue as those devices exist for years now but their main usage was for commercial usage and not gaming actually.
I have seen many issues reported with touchscreens and mouse pointers or functionality, from drivers to faulty hw components.
on the other hand an implementation of such a functionality in BMS would be great cause it would make more realistic the operation, you will have to touch where the switch is and not use the mouse pointer which might take longer.
There are many panels that add touch functionality in normal monitors and are cheap to get. They mount on top of the monitor.But after all the issue I must say it’s ultra minor to the overall things need to be implemented or fixed in BMS. Terrain engine and UI (mostly resolution) integration of 3d party apps functionalities like mc or wdp or fmap to name a few.
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well not absolutely sure about this belcowin.
Touching is actually a different mouse way. Mouse is vga controlled in the end. So touch drivers are an alternative mouse driver… so maybe there is a relation with fps in the way the driver operates or coworks with the vga drivers.
Normally it shouldn’t be an issue as those devices exist for years now but their main usage was for commercial usage and not gaming actually.
I have seen many issues reported with touchscreens and mouse pointers or functionality, from drivers to faulty hw components.
on the other hand an implementation of such a functionality in BMS would be great cause it would make more realistic the operation, you will have to touch where the switch is and not use the mouse pointer which might take longer.
There are many panels that add touch functionality in normal monitors and are cheap to get. They mount on top of the monitor.But after all the issue I must say it’s ultra minor to the overall things need to be implemented or fixed in BMS. Terrain engine and UI (mostly resolution) integration of 3d party apps functionalities like mc or wdp or fmap to name a few.
It is nonsense.
Mouse and VGA are absolutely different. if you change your mouse, you have to download a driver from nVidia or AMD?
About FPS….Touch overlay is sending a up to 4 or more finger position data through USB. When you use hotas it hit FPS?
Commercial usage…When peoples start to play video game with PC, who shout a computer is only for business and research.Of course a few person have Big LCD and same size touch overlay. Of course it is no top priority.
But I am hoping and then just saying at all. -
I wish it was nonsense.
Please have a deep search or ask drivers gurus or programmers they will tell you the same.
if your vga drivers get fubared on the mouse section you will not have mouse, example jumping pointer, and it’s logical. The mouse drivers just controls the mouse device and where it is, status etc. then reports directly to vga driver where the damn pointer is and the status. Even if the pointer is not displayed the vga knows where the damn thing is so when you move it it displays where it should.
So u see the connection?
Now if you have 3d display (not monitor but image) then it’s more complicated…
About fps let me tell you that trackir which is an input device (advanced 3d mouse) has fps impact.
Edit oh about the mouse and VGA I talk to you as I have personally first witnessed it and couldn’t believe it also… but had both driver and hw problem.
First driver… then my hw vga died, a slow death… artifacts and so on… -
FPS is no relation with Touching. It depend on amount of pixels -how big resolution and how many monitor-
No, maybe not. But that dude has 4 monitors and AFAIK, the GPU also renders the left and right side of that touchscreen… it’ll be like having SIX monitors although the bottom left and bottom right are “not displayed.”
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It is nonsense.
Mouse and VGA are absolutely different. if you change your mouse, you have to download a driver from nVidia or AMD?
About FPS….Touch overlay is sending a up to 4 or more finger position data through USB. When you use hotas it hit FPS?
Commercial usage…When peoples start to play video game with PC, who shout a computer is only for business and research.Of course a few person have Big LCD and same size touch overlay. Of course it is no top priority.
But I am hoping and then just saying at all.If you are knowledgable on this issue (was that a proper phrase??), then feel free to contact the devs and offer to do this bit of the sim for them. I’m sure a lot of people would appreciate a touchable main screen!
Personally, this would return to the issue of a “moving target” and I would personally prefer my static touchscreen setup. But good luck!
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if your vga drivers get fubared on the mouse section you will not have mouse, example jumping pointer, and it’s logical. The mouse drivers just controls the mouse device and where it is, status etc. then reports directly to vga driver where the damn pointer is and the status. Even if the pointer is not displayed the vga knows where the damn thing is so when you move it it displays where it should.
I think it is story of DOS age. I googled and not found. Please give me a reference.
About fps let me tell you that trackir which is an input device (advanced 3d mouse) has fps impact.
TrackIR censor is camera not positioning device. It sends images and TrackIR S/W process images and extract 3 dots and get 6DOF.
Edit oh about the mouse and VGA I talk to you as I have personally first witnessed it and couldn’t believe it also… but had both driver and hw problem.
First driver… then my hw vga died, a slow death… artifacts and so on…You and I will get slow death finally. Who is murderer.
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No, maybe not. But that dude has 4 monitors and AFAIK, the GPU also renders the left and right side of that touchscreen… it’ll be like having SIX monitors although the bottom left and bottom right are “not displayed.”
The monitor layout in the video of youtube is unique.
I don’t know how DCS support virtual desktop.
And then I don’t have confidence you are right or not. -
You and I will get slow death finally. Who is murderer.
Me not, I hope you neither, but for sure time is for both.
Well the Dos you mention is winxp. There are many still with it.
sent from my Xperia Z3 compact via TapaTalk
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I have programmed with OpenGL. But i cant understand. Please explain how the mouse works.
DCS supports touching in main screen.
DCS can export screens similar to default BMS screen extraction, with lua scripts modifying (search dcs-eagle forum) , but it is not the case above.
1. There is nothing so complex here. It is just DCS A-10 ordinary 6 monitor output field setup with missing monitors 4&6., and touchscreen as serving monitor no.5.
Basically every “game” with clickable pit would work with this setup. (it should, don’t take my word for granted )2. Touchscreen mouse emulation doesn’t have to be cpu intensive at all., unlike mouse emulation in TrackIr, Freetrack, … where in those you have 3D calculation of an object
(tracker) and (v)syncing with vga output … of course it is cpu/gpu intensive why shouldn’t bein physically connected touchscreen to PC , it is not like this , you just send pressed X,Y coords (or multi X1,Y1, X2,Y2 …with multitouch) and translate them to your liking , mouse,hid etc…
as always depends on setup- it even depends how do you setup touch to emulate mouse.
As usb/ps2 mouse emulation B. As hid-usb (dx) device (like hotas cougar) or … C. as multitouch device (newer, i think requires win7 minimum, but it defaults to HID)
It all depends of type of touchscreen and driver , today even with win7 they should work out of the box
In F4AF my (now dead) 3Mmicro 19" capacitive single-touch worked just fine as second monitor via Touchbuddy , with “ordinary” mouse emulation (no HID) on winXP
It even worked in main screen as seen in that setup above , with 2D and later with 3D pit and + touchbuddy (local server - client) + freetrack,
on my x86 P4 3,2Ghz 3GB ddr1 400 ram , with AGP ATI 2600xt 512mb dd3 ram/… winXPsp3, old configuration, not for BMS, but F4 AlliedForce worked flawless !5. Just to make sure , dont think in the box, today’s android wifi server clients are not the same thing as physically connected touchscreens in windows
Most of touchscreens are usb connected , I’ve had even serial (db9 com) one, so they are basically HID-devices, more similar to usb-joysticks, gamepads, mouse,
then PS/2 keyboard/mouseBut in the end, Arty was more then partially right, … everything depends on type of hw/driver/sw solution, even quality of setup , so , everything is possible, it is just how the concept of approach to the whole thing.
Cheers
- it even depends how do you setup touch to emulate mouse.
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DCS can export screens similar to default BMS screen extraction, with lua scripts modifying (search dcs-eagle forum) , but it is not the case above.
1. There is nothing so complex here. It is just DCS A-10 ordinary 6 monitor output field setup with missing monitors 4&6., and touchscreen as serving monitor no.5.
Basically every “game” with clickable pit would work with this setup. (it should, don’t take my word for granted )2. Touchscreen mouse emulation doesn’t have to be cpu intensive at all., unlike mouse emulation in TrackIr, Freetrack, … where in those you have 3D calculation of an object
(tracker) and (v)syncing with vga output … of course it is cpu/gpu intensive why shouldn’t bein physically connected touchscreen to PC , it is not like this , you just send pressed X,Y coords (or multi X1,Y1, X2,Y2 …with multitouch) and translate them to your liking , mouse,hid etc…
as always depends on setup- it even depends how do you setup touch to emulate mouse.
As usb/ps2 mouse emulation B. As hid-usb (dx) device (like hotas cougar) or … C. as multitouch device (newer, i think requires win7 minimum, but it defaults to HID)
It all depends of type of touchscreen and driver , today even with win7 they should work out of the box
In F4AF my (now dead) 3Mmicro 19" capacitive single-touch worked just fine as second monitor via Touchbuddy , with “ordinary” mouse emulation (no HID) on winXP
It even worked in main screen as seen in that setup above , with 2D and later with 3D pit and + touchbuddy (local server - client) + freetrack,
on my x86 P4 3,2Ghz 3GB ddr1 400 ram , with AGP ATI 2600xt 512mb dd3 ram/… winXPsp3, old configuration, not for BMS, but F4 AlliedForce worked flawless !5. Just to make sure , dont think in the box, today’s android wifi server clients are not the same thing as physically connected touchscreens in windows
Most of touchscreens are usb connected , I’ve had even serial (db9 com) one, so they are basically HID-devices, more similar to usb-joysticks, gamepads, mouse,
then PS/2 keyboard/mouseBut in the end, Arty was more then partially right, … everything depends on type of hw/driver/sw solution, even quality of setup , so , everything is possible, it is just how the concept of approach to the whole thing.
Cheers
I did read your old post. But you changed context. Why you deleted old post?
Anyway, I am disagree with your new post.
I am thinking mouse pointing/touching mechanism/emulation is not important at all.
Your Mouse thanks for his 2$ or 3$ MCU. That 's enough. No need Intel i7 or AMD Athlon.More then this…
I am agree with your old post about hitting ‘moving target’.
That is point of view about Human Interaction or favor.
I think this would be very critical issue.But I think touchable main screen is ‘ONE PLUS ONE’ gift not ‘Survival of the fittest’ law.
Persons who have 1 big monitor and 1 small touch screen can use Helios way.
The others who have 1 big touch screen monitor can use touchable main screen way.Thanks for your opinion and explains.
- it even depends how do you setup touch to emulate mouse.
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I am thinking mouse pointing/touching mechanism/emulation is not important at all.
Your Mouse thanks for his 2$ or 3$ MCU. That 's enough. No need Intel i7 or AMD Athlon.Oh, yes it is important, but not in the way you think, performance wise… As I’ve said there is no problem with performance with physically connected devices.
At least there shouldn’t be if everything is correctly connected and operative.But! , Let say you have built small cockpit using 2 screens and one is your touch-screen , now, you don’t just use main screen when you have at least setup like that.
You want some type of screen export function for various export screens, left mfd, right mfd, DED input panel … etc … for all plane functional buttons you want to emulate via touch screen.
Because of that you can’t be in fullscreen mode (like the guy in DCS A-10 , or F4AF), you need windowed mode for BMS.We are talking about 5+ exported windows from the main program (performance impact here too, but not relevant for now, it is still bearable).
Now what is happening . You are working with multiple windows of several, at least two, different applications , cause we aren’t just using ordinary clickable cockpit , again as that guy in DCS-A-10.
We have simulator window , main , and exported mfd’s etc… And we have touch software with our template screens , buttons , like Helios or on android devices.And we are basically pressing buttons with emulated mouse (touch-screen) on that other program (helios/android) so it can translate inputs to keyboard shortcuts or whatever and send it to BMS simulator window/engine.
Now , when you press button on Helios , you’re basically “STEALING” window (screen) focus out of BMS (you loose active window focus, even sound) with emulated mouse on touch screen to the Helios , (like clicking between two or more windows apps in windows)
so it can translate your touch-screen input to key-shortcut and send it to BMS which (at least) should have window focus again to receive that key shortcuts from Helios.Windows are not build that way that you can have 2 or more active (in focus) window applications screens at the same time. One have to be background.
(can’t receive mouse clicks in background)
Simple , No … Easy , YesTouch(mouse) -> Helios -> BMS … or/and … Touch(mouse) -> BMS (clickable pit)
It is not great performance hit for today’s pc (depends on hw/sw), but , few other things can go wrong in this sausage …
Now our emulated mouse comes into play. If we are emulating ordinary mouse then , I’m not sure it will work “normally” , even at all.
(there are workarounds even for ordinary mouse , like return to the main screen after touch event to regain window focus … etc…, that’s too technical for this scope, but not hard )Or, we are using HID-device (DirecX-input) emulation for our mouse, which will our live easier , because DirectX can coexist within several compatible applications at the same time.
Every application which we want will receive that input regardless is it active or in background window.So that’s the catch with type of emulation , not because of performance (chip type quality or whatever)… but as I’ve said , today’s touch screens just because of multi touch capabilities
are default HID-(dx)devices , you can’t have two or more mouse pointers, but you can have XXX mousesCheers
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I’m getting slightly lost in the exchange, but here are two points:
1. Helios will work with BMS even if BMS is in fullscreen mode.
2. If having a “touchable main screen” is so easy, how can we do it in BMS?The reason I’m saying it can’t be done in BMS is because this issue came up a few years ago IIRC and one of the devs confirmed it wasn’t possible.