Spec out my new HOTAS, please.
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Thansk to a change of fortune, I can now rebuild my “cockpit”, and retire my old but ever more flaky Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar. I can afford new controllers, basically anything on the market.
But I’ve been out of the loop so long I barely know where to start or what to choose.
So I’ll start with my requirements.
Much as I would enjoy a full high fidelity cockpit simulator, that’s out of my scope. So let’s not go THAT far. However a stripped down cockpit frame may be an option.
Full F-16 centered HOTAS, with authenticity to the F-16 stick and throttle being important to me. I’m still pretty adept at using near-realistic control mappings on the Cougar HOTAS. Want to stay as close to that as possible.
Fully functional MFDs and ICP. Not just frames and buttons, but with fully functional displays.
Rudder pedals.
I can’t do a full cockpit but I CAN fabricate framework to place all devices in a reasonable approximation of correct relative placement.
Bonus points for being able to control all devices with LESS software rather than MORE.
While the priority is F-16 based simming, I’m going to fly other things, too. So having a throttle with 2 engine capability wouldn’t be bad.
I’ll be flying both BMS and DCS.
So what’s the best solution today that fits my requirements?
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@Buzzbomb For the Stick if you wan’t as close as it can get. You basically have 2 options
Winwing F-16EX or FSSB R3 both are Force sensing non movable sticks currently representing the upper end of what you can get
https://realsimulator.com/fssb-r3-ultra/
https://winwingsim.com/view/goods-details.html?id=341For all the rest such as Dual Engine throttle working UFC includung MFDs with monitor, ICP you might as well browse the winwing store as they offer the whole set of what you have listed in you list
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I don’t think you’re gonna manage Authentic F-16 throttle and dual engine on the same unit… But if someone knows something that DOES meet that criteria, I’m interested too!
Oak mentioned Force sensing, which is obviously the right choice for F-16 authenticity but if you want a more conventional unit, my VKB Gunfighter with a warthog grip (same grip the F-16 uses) is quite nice! Somehow I trust VKB more than WinWing, but thats just me.
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@oakdesign said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
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@VIPER-0 he asked for it.
can afford new controllers, basically anything on the market.
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Thanks. Just want to be sure that when I drop some cash on controllers, that I get the ones that will work best with minimal headaches and hassles.
Not scared at those prices. Seems worth it for the quality and functionality they offer.
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@Buzzbomb said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
and retire my old but ever more flaky Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar.
I use a WH grip just coz I like having the CMS PUSH function. I’m using a FCC3 base connected to the Cougar stick PCB. I’m also using Martin’s throttle arm with the Cougar throttle grip connected to the Cougar throttle PCB and a TUSBA. So I’m not sure what you mean by “flaky”
You can get a FSSB or a VFS-WE for your stick base. Having a correct throttle for the F-16 basically rules out any 2-engine throttle options especially if you want correct placement of other switches. A lot of people seem to be happy with the TM Viper TQS.
MFDs - either Cougar MFDs and source your own screens or WinWing
ICP - Simgears
Controllers - I use PoKeys and BBI-64. A lot of people seem to be using Arduinos, but that’s above my skill level. I just want a working cockpit, no backlights or displays. If you want working gauges, backlights, displays, etc., it gets exponentially more complex. I believe DCS has different requirements too so apologies but I can’t help you there as BMS is the only sim I fly at the moment.shameless plug of my for sale thread
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For the stick there will be soon another alternative available from Thrustmaster: the AVA base with swappable cams and springs. This can be used with a Warthog/F-16 grip and looks interesting to me, even if a little overpriced.
For throttles, I think you will have to make a choice between original F-16 single engine or twin.
For the F-16 there are WinWing and Thrustmaster TQS (also overpriced in my opinion).
For Twins you could consider the WinWing F-15EX or the VKB STECS wich seems very versatile. -
My Cougar is getting flaky due to just being OLD. Kind of hate to admit it, but it uses its original stock pots for pitch and roll axes, but they were replaced once. However, the roll axis is noisy and drifts and no amount of recalibration will fix that. And since aftermarket support and mods for it are pretty much no longer available, I can’t even find anybody who still does Cougar mods.
The thing is 25 years old anyway. I can’t expect it to last forever.
I’d have no issues with continuing to use some Cougar components, though. As long as it works well, that’s what matters.
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@Buzzbomb
The gimbals and pots were a known issue, hence there are many mods for it.
Pair the grip with an FSSB, FCC, or VFS-WE and you have an excellent force-sensing setup.
Pair the throttle with a throttle arm (maybe one from Martin/Pegasus) and stick a quality pot in and you have a correct throttle.My WH grip is almost 15 years old and I just had some wobble issues — easily fixed by a piece of thin card installed in the grip housing.
My Cougar throttle thumbstick is showing signs of age and I’m waiting for a force-sensing mod replacement for it. -
@Atlas said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
@Buzzbomb
Pair the throttle with a throttle arm (maybe one from Martin/Pegasus) and stick a quality pot in and you have a correct throttle.Wouldn’t go with anything that still uses pots nowadays anymore
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Yes, I want to move past potentiometer tech, at least for the major axes. Hall sensors at the minimum, force sensors would be even better. I firmly believe that minimal stick movement is best, because you never have to “unwind” your current stick position in order to apply a different input.
I’m also trying to decide “To VR, or NOT to VR, that is the question!”. Or maybe even Mixed Reality.
Last year I got to try out a Varjo mixed reality headset in a moderately high fidelity F-16 cockpit simulator and I have to say, I want that. But the cost is high, I can’t justify it. Still, I see mixed reality as being the best solution of all, particularly if you spent money on physical cockpit panels and want to be able to actually USE them.
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@oakdesign
I still refer to them as pots but this is what I’m using now which according to their spec sheet is a Non-Contacting Hall Effect Single Turn Position Sensor.@Buzzbomb
Force sensors for the stick for sure, which is why I mentioned the FSSB, FCC, or VFS-WE.
Obviously you cannot install a force sensor for the throttle, hence the need for a pot. See the links above for a hall sensor pot that was recommended to me. Not bad for £20.VR or no VR is definitely up to each individual, but coming from a triple screen setup, being able to AAR much better and keep formation much easier in VR pushed me over the edge into making a replica cockpit. I sold my screen setup a month or so after BMS went into VR. It still has it’s challenges though, and not all VR headsets have passthrough, not all passthrough have the same quality, and even with good passthrough, sometimes it comes with a tradeoff in performance. Definitely an area that needs more progress/maturity, so depending on each person’s preferences, it can be a go/no-go. I guess the only real way to know is to try it for yourself.
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@Atlas said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
@oakdesign
I still refer to them as pots but this is what I’m using now which according to their spec sheet is a Non-Contacting Hall Effect Single Turn Position Sensor.@Buzzbomb
Force sensors for the stick for sure, which is why I mentioned the FSSB, FCC, or VFS-WE.The Winwing us Force Sensing as well and the best bang for buck at the moment
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@oakdesign
I have heard good things about WinWing but their website has become a nightmare to go through and with the WinWing offering being new, the longevity factor has yet to be determined.As for bang-for-buck, the base with the force kit installed is $390/£401 whereas the VFS-WE is £224 for the SSC version or £232 for a Cougar-mount version. If OP is considering a simpit, a WinWing base may be too wide.
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@Atlas VFS-WE is base only so comparing apple to pears
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@oakdesign
Like I said, there is a Cougar-mount version if OP prefers that, if we are just talking bang-for-buck.@Buzzbomb said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
I can afford new controllers, basically anything on the market.
Much as I would enjoy a full high fidelity cockpit simulator, that’s out of my scope. So let’s not go THAT far. However a stripped down cockpit frame may be an option.Depends on how strongly OP is considering a cockpit replica option, a VFS-WE with one of Invictus’ mounting options may be a better choice in the long run. Or if OP has a 3D printer, or has a friend that has one, a 3D printed base may be an even cheaper option, again giving bang-for-buck.
All depends on the short-term and long-term plans of the OP.
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@Atlas OP mention that a full cockpit build is out of scope.
Next stuff like VFS-WE requires still some DIY.
So in terms of out of the Box there are only 2 options -
@oakdesign
As quoted, OP mentioned a stripped down cockpit frame may be an option. You don’t need a full cockpit build for a correct stick and throttle setup.Out of the box, FSSB and WinWing may be options, both of which won’t be ideal if/when OP decides to go with a replica or even semi-replica build. The ultimate choice will be up to OP and how likely he is going to opt for certain builds in the future.
Personally, VFS-WE + custom base would be the best option as the WinWing option seems to be linked to their gimbal design meaning the footprint will still be on the bigger side, maybe the same size as FSSB.
@Buzzbomb said in Spec out my new HOTAS, please.:
I can afford new controllers, basically anything on the market.
However a stripped down cockpit frame may be an option.
Full F-16 centered HOTAS, with authenticity to the F-16 stick and throttle being important to me.
I can’t do a full cockpit but I CAN fabricate framework to place all devices in a reasonable approximation of correct relative placement.
Nothing in OP’s post about needing to be out-of-the-box setup being a requirement. The SNSR PWR and HUD switches are often used, so having a setup where the stick’s base does not encroach on these would be ideal — again depending on how likely OP is going to go that route.