Radio Filter (Outsiders Switch)
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Has anyone got this working? So far, acting as AWACS in the 2D UI, people in 3D on my frequency cannot hear me. I have taken a seat in a flight in the sim.
Is it possible that the default option for /o is none instead of seat? So far it seems to be acting like it.
EDIT: So far, it seems like the filter applies even when you are in the 2D UI. So far, the experience has been that if you are in a seat, then you are in one ‘room’ - and if you are not in a seat, then you are not able to talk with pilots in seats or in 3D. Is this intentional? It seems different to the manuals description.
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when you remain in 2D, you are actually using IVC UHF 307.3 (IIRC) and VHF 1234. So they will indeed not hear you. Open IVC client window, check the box to manually set frequencies (can’t recall actual label, not behind game pc) and set GCI freq your pilots are using manually.
Note, do not enter the decimal sign and use 3 digits behind deciam. So 349.00 on IVC client window is 349000. -
Well actually, in 2D I am currently using IVC UHF 349000. Set that using the bms cfg file instead.
Also, I was saying that I could hear them, but they could not hear me. This indicates that we HAVE to be on the same freq.
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make sure BMS 2D is active window, otherwise F1/F2 don’t seem to work a lot of the time.
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You know, I have done a fair bit of AWACS in 4.32. I think it would be reasonable to assume that this is due to a change from 4.33.
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You know, I have done a fair bit of AWACS in 4.32. I think it would be reasonable to assume that this is due to a change from 4.33.
your problem? Or the what I proposed above (bms being active window)? I had that problem in 4.32 a lot.
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Yes, my problem is I suspect related to the IVC changes in 4.33. I dont use PTT unless I am looking at BMS - I would not be much use as an AWACS if I am not looking at the tactical situation…
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Yes, my problem is I suspect related to the IVC changes in 4.33. I dont use PTT unless I am looking at BMS - I would not be much use as an AWACS if I am not looking at the tactical situation…
I’ve known similar when doing ATC and GCI. So when doing ATC, I wasn’t drawing rulers and stuff on the 2D map yet, thus sometimes not BMS window active, giving issues.
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Cheers for the tips. Its working for me at the moment, as long as I take a seat in a flight. But if I do that, I cant hear people who have not yet taken a seat.
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The best thing to do is create an ivc client.ini file with the IVC options in it. Page 14-248 gives all the info you need to create the file.
Here is one with all commented out. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32645539/IVC%20Client.ini
For the Outsiders option, Seat is the default option. sounds to me like you are wanting Awacs or All. This way you don’t need a seat in a flight (of same frequency is required)
Hope this helps.
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If Im in the 2D UI, then according to the manual, my setting is irrelevant.
I already have the .ini file with a lot of options set, and my outsiders switch is set to awacs. That should affect what I hear in 3D. It should not affect what others hear from me at all.
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If Im in the 2D UI, then according to the manual, my setting is irrelevant.
Not sure that is correct
I already have the .ini file with a lot of options set, and my outsiders switch is set to awacs. That should affect what I hear in 3D. It should not affect what others hear from me at all.
Agreed, I assume you can talk to them when they are in 2d with you? I wonder if the awacs is so far away from them that they cannot hear you? for testing have you tried the All setting?
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No. If they have taken a seat, I can talk to them if I have taken a seat. If they have not taken a seat and I have, I cannot hear them nor vice versa.
Edit: the manual says the radio filter only applies when you are in 3D.
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make sure BMS 2D is active window, otherwise F1/F2 don’t seem to work a lot of the time.
I can shed some light on this…
You need to start IVC with the /k flag, to install the keyboard hooks.
This will make F1, F2, and F3 work even if a different window has focus.Without that flag set, you are right, if IVC is not the foreground program, those keys will not be effective.
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I grant you this is not a straightforward topic but I am having a hard time even figuring out what questions are being asked here. So let me try just adding some information to see if that helps…
4.33 IVC is very different from 4.32 IVC in a many ways. In particular, the way the range/terrain effects are applied for players who are talking to each other in the 3D world has a big impact on communications with players who are not yet in the 3D world. The “outsiders” functionality was implemented to resolve the fact that with the 3D effects working, the players in 2D were simply out of the loop, unable to make themselves heard to players in 3D world.
Now the way to get players in 2D into the loop is to give them a world position locus. This allows the signal processing code to figure out that such players are not in fact at infinite range. In point of fact, what was happening is that the radio was getting through fine, it was just being attenuated to zero volume because of the slant range math being given nothing useful for input.
That is why for “seat” mode, taking a seat lets you in on the conversation – by doing so you tell the radio system that your world location is at the map position of the flight in which you sat down. It should also explain why players in 2D UI who have not yet sat down aren’t in the loop – they still have infinite slant range so far as the radio system is concerned.
The reason for the “all” setting is to avoid all this mumbo jumbo and just let people in 2D who are connected to the same game and voice server participate in radio traffic.
The reason for the “awacs” setting is to allow a more realistic locus for the player who is acting as an AWACS crewman…i.e. those who are too far away to hear the AWACS or blocked by terrain don’t and everyone else does etc. etc. If you sit in an AWACS flight in the ATO then you get the the exact same result regardless of whether you put “awacs” or “seat” as your “outsiders” value because the seat you took is the AWACS flight and thus your locus is that of the AWACS flight.
I did originally have the “none” setting in there as the default and the test team…umm…well they didn’t like it. “None” is the situation that the “outsiders” option was introduced to fix…no way for people in 2D to make themselves heard to players in 3D world. “none” remains because there are people who said that shutting up random passers-by who weren’t joining 3D world but hooked up to the game would potentially be useful in some cases. It’s not the default now though, “seat” is.
The other thing to keep in mind is that the “outsiders” flag affects your copy of the IVC client not anyone else’s. Let’s say you are the only player in 2D UI with several in 3D world. Unless each of the players in 3D world sets up their IVC client for “seat” or “awacs” or “all” then no matter what you do, they don’t hear you transmitting from 2D UI. Results can obviously be mixed…perhaps one player in 3D world set “none” – in that case that player won’t hear you, again regardless of your settings. In point of fact, if you are in 2D UI with “none” set and the people in 3D world have “all” then they are still going to hear you…but now we’re into the perverse edge cases so I risk confusing everyone
I know this stuff does work as documented because the testers really turned the screws on this stuff when it wasn’t working…thus I’d be pretty confident. If the docs weren’t [aren’t??] clear enough about how this works and I can understand what wasn’t clear enough, we can always add to the docs for the next go around.
Key hooking, or lack thereof, is totally separate from this. Generally, if you want to use F3 so you can talk on GUARD without joining the 3D world then I’d advise starting the IVC client before the game, and also setting the “force local control” and using the IVC Client’s key hook to take F1/F2/F3 away from the game – this will require manual frequency input to the client UI. If you don’t need/want GUARD TX while looking at the game 2D UI, then you can just let the game start the IVC client and use F1/F2 as your PTTs – in that case though, changing the default frequency from 1234 for the second radio (possibly to 243000 which is the UHF GUARD freq as another way to get on GUARD) via the cfg file setting for that is probably advised or you are restricted to a single radio for RX/TX.
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Excellent explanation! In that case, I think the relevant section of the manual needs rewording then.
The manual says that the radio filter applies to players in 3D, not to players in 2D. The fact that it filters players in 2D from each other based on whether they have taken a seat or not, was not clear from the manual.
I have gotten some practice with it working now. Biggest question I currently have, is why does the AWACS have such a short radio range? Im no expert on the radios big aircraft use, but it seems a little short ranged. With one aircraft at 10 thousand, and the AWACS at 14 thousand, and 130 miles between them, there was no transmission received. At 80 miles, 10 thousand and 24 thousand, there was a difficult to hear transmission, which became a 4-by-5 at 55 miles, 10 thousand vice 26 thousand. From what Im told, all of those ranges/heights have LOS over the horizon, so I guess it comes down to transmission power? Just seems weird that I can talk to Melbourne Approach from a couple thousand miles away, which is a ground station, and in the sim two aircraft cant talk clearly at 100 miles. Is there any possibility of AUTOCAT transmissions in future if this is realistic attenuation?
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The manual says that the radio filter applies to players in 3D, not to players in 2D. The fact that it filters players in 2D from each other based on whether they have taken a seat or not, was not clear from the manual.
You’re right. I can see where the confusion arises then. What it should probably say is that the outsiders option controls what you hear in the way of other folks who are not yet themselves in 3D world; all other such folks regardless of where you are. I’ll have to think about a way to write that so it’s clear…since that sentence probably isn’t it.
I have gotten some practice with it working now. Biggest question I currently have, is why does the AWACS have such a short radio range? Im no expert on the radios big aircraft use, but it seems a little short ranged. With one aircraft at 10 thousand, and the AWACS at 14 thousand, and 130 miles between them, there was no transmission received. At 80 miles, 10 thousand and 24 thousand, there was a difficult to hear transmission, which became a 4-by-5 at 55 miles, 10 thousand vice 26 thousand. From what Im told, all of those ranges/heights have LOS over the horizon, so I guess it comes down to transmission power? Just seems weird that I can talk to Melbourne Approach from a couple thousand miles away, which is a ground station, and in the sim two aircraft cant talk clearly at 100 miles. Is there any possibility of AUTOCAT transmissions in future if this is realistic attenuation?
There was a lot of debate about effective range. I’m not going to claim that the model is perfect or anything – clearly it’s a compromise in the sense that it really doesn’t deal with variable atmospheric or solar conditions or myriad other factors that can vary and have appreciable affect on range on any given day; heck there’s no accounting for cloud which can really stomp on some UHF frequencies. I’ll tell you one thing though: no one suggested in my hearing that AWACS would be flying around at anything less that fuel efficient cruising altitudes. FL140 is pretty low…not really surprised that the model generates a lesser range for that. I seem to recall testing co-alt jets at FL250 out to 250nm without appreciable audibility problems.
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Setting my falcon outsiders to: all
and then entering 3d on computer A,when i transmit from an ivc client on a computer B
IVC crashes on computer A.
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AWACS wasnt cruising so much as climbing - hence the changing altitudes. I was trying to run AWACS on Falcon Online, and no AWACS was tasked. So, I tasked one and was trying to communicate from it during the climbout.
Also, would it be possible to apply those distance effects in 2D as well if you have taken a seat? I thought I saw an option for that on my first read through but now I cant find it. It was weird hearing someone perfectly who tells me they can barely make me out. Not new (joys of teamspeak volumes) but weird.
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If you take a seat then the distance effects are processed. The model is completely symmetrical too so if you can hear someone loud and they hear you quiet, that’s a problem with something other than the IVC code.