This theater is savage!
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Just your squadron, if that’s all you unchecked set by HQ.
C9
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My VFS started an ITO Campaign, vs. Syria yesterday. We fragged a SEAD Strike, 4xDEAD and 4x Escort. The host of the campaign edited the files so that we flew Helenic 52/CFTs with HARMs.
The SEAD strike went OK, but we had to abort mission because across the israeli north eastern border everything is swarming with SA17s. If we were to go at them with a conventional israeli loadout, the only viable weapons would be delilahs and CBUs, both being poor choices since an SA17 battalion has 8 launch vehicles, all with independent radars and it would take a lot of delilahs and time to take them out. Spice bombs are out of the question because those sites haven’t been reckoned yet, so TGT SPTPs aren’t an option.Day 1 SAM density is off the chart and without proper anti radiation missiles, it can be quite frustrating.
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The HARM is such an effective weapon against SAMs. The Israeli aircrafts do not carry HARM.
It would be helpful to know how real Israeli pilots deal with SAMs.
Anybody with knowledge on this, please share. -
IAF has two things to take down SAMs - ECM and MITL weapons
Main difference between RL and BMS at that respect is that in RL you have other platforms that help you pinpoint SAM batteries and give you realtime coordinates of the targets allowing rapid reaction time for “DEAD patrols”.
In BMS we had to offset that by giving you built-in HAD - as it is currently the only way currently available to get radar positions. -
So the built in HAD is not true to life in the Sufa?
My life was a lie
I thought those nostrils below the IFF antennas were a built in HST pod.
MITL weapons, IMHO, aren’t that good against long range air defenses and those that are on the move. They make you a sitting duck for some time before it impacts. You’re heads down, mostly flying straight and in need of some serious escort if the Campaign is still young and swarming with enemy fighters.
In any case, I had some mixed results with low level snake eye runs. It seems that it is pure luck whether or not a Patriot engages you or not. If it does and you’re close, you’re dead. Studying some ACMI files, it sometimes decides to fire SAMs at you from maximum range and other times it only fires at you when you get much closer. It also seems to ‘feel’ when you’re out to kill it or just flying about(I’m guessing ones aspect to the Patriot factors into it’s attack decision making), capping the area. Sometimes I had a missile shot in my face roughly 2 miles away without a ‘P’ spike(strange, in the debrief it said patriot, not Stinger, though BMS might not differenciate between the two since they are part of the same battalion). Other times I wacked it with the aforementioned snake eyes without any launches at all. Going quiet and hitting the deck well before the IP seems to highten my chances of getting close. Still, surviving the attack run is always a dice roll with this method. -
you need to make your holding pattern in a smart way, and outside threat area
so holding about 75nm out is the best thing you can do you will usually will not be engaged by the SAM at this range and if you do, because you are beam or close to it, missiles will not reach you.
launching from this range will give you one or two “go arounds” with the Delilah.BTW, in 4.33 there is a different RWR modeling, some systems have better accuracy then others. some have better coverage then others. there is also the whole radar frequency, as some systems can pick up more frequency ranges then others.
so maybe Patriot is not being picked up due to being in the dead zones or something.
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I’ll practice more with the Dililah then
I guess the trickiest part is timing and location of the holding pattern(which is nicely emphasized in the training manual), though it can be even more challenging on Day 1 SAM hunts, with numerous bandits about.
In the manual it says that the Delilah covers roughly 9nm per minute. Does this vary with cruising altitude and release velocity? If yes, by how much? -
Don’t know if it’s the best tactic, but in the first days of the campaign I’d mostly do A-A sweeps in order to achieve a decent air superiority and take care of the SAMs only when skies are a bit more clean… is it a crazy idea?
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Don’t know if it’s the best tactic, but in the first days of the campaign I’d mostly do A-A sweeps in order to achieve a decent air superiority and take care of the SAMs only when skies are a bit more clean… is it a crazy idea?
Not crazy at all. Used to do it all the time when I flew often. I’d hijack as many Barcaps as I could and use them as Sweeps, fly the Sweeps too for a solid 2-3 days if I had to.
I’d also occasionally use a few of the hijacked Barcaps, load up some iron and take out ground units just beyond the FLOT. I’d use the wingies as air cover while I searched for 'em.
C9
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@Cloud:
Not crazy at all. Used to do it all the time when I flew often. I’d hijack as many Barcaps as I could and use them as Sweeps, fly the Sweeps too for a solid 2-3 days if I had to.
I’d also occasionally use a few of the hijacked Barcaps, load up some iron and take out ground units just beyond the FLOT. I’d use the wingies as air cover while I searched for 'em.
C9
The way we cracked the SAM threat in ITO was with SDBs. You can’t hit the SA-17s when they’re moving, but if they’re nice enough to sit still, which they sometimes do, you can launch > 20nm get hits, but still have time to turn away. It’s dicey, though, because you have maybe one minute between the time the TGP is in range and when you have to abort. Still, we wiped out many battalions of SA-17 with this method.
Obviously, you have to take one of the platforms that have TGP and SDB capability (F-16I for sure, don’t know about others) for this to work.
If they’re moving, Delilah is basically it. And IMO it’s one of the hardest weapons in the entire sim to use well.
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If they’re moving, Delilah is basically it. And IMO it’s one of the hardest weapons in the entire sim to use well.
but IMHO, by far the most satisfying weapon as well
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but IMHO, by far the most satisfying weapon as well
Ha! Yes, there’s something awesome about seeing an SA-17 get bigger and bigger in the MFD. Especially if you don’t forget to arm the fuse.
One thing I’ve been contemplating with the SA-17 threat is whether a combination of LGB lofting, buddy lasing, and terrain masking might work sometimes. It might be tough to pull off, but it would be pretty awesome. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work in theory, but of course you’d have to get lucky with the location to have terrain in the right place.
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Ha! Yes, there’s something awesome about seeing an SA-17 get bigger and bigger in the MFD. Especially if you don’t forget to arm the fuse.
One thing I’ve been contemplating with the SA-17 threat is whether a combination of LGB lofting, buddy lasing, and terrain masking might work sometimes. It might be tough to pull off, but it would be pretty awesome. I don’t see any reason it wouldn’t work in theory, but of course you’d have to get lucky with the location to have terrain in the right place.
should work just fine
you have the designator up high and safe, locate the target, feed coods to the bomb carrier. which then lofts on the Target position. while designator maintains LOS -
should work just fine
you have the designator up high and safe, locate the target, feed coods to the bomb carrier. which then lofts on the Target position. while designator maintains LOSYeah, the open question is whether an SA-17 can detect, track, launch, and shoot down the loft aircraft before it can get down behind the terrain again. Because you’re going to need to be well within engagement range at loft time. Still would be a super fun mission to run with some friends.
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if you are fast enough and aggressive enough, answer is yes, you can. you can get the bomb off at 8nm at less then 2000ft AGL, but you’ll need to to the pull down very very quickly (less then 30 seconds from pull up to low level). assuming that you are not detected before the pull up
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if you are fast enough and aggressive enough, answer is yes, you can. you can get the bomb off at 8nm at less then 2000ft AGL, but you’ll need to to the pull down in CATI and very very fast.
Which is why I think terrain masking is an important variable. Obviously, a conveniently-located mountain is going to help a lot vs. running in over 50 miles of ocean-flat southeastern Syria.
I wish there was a better way to visualize terrain in BMS. I find it somewhat difficult right now to figure out what sight lines are likely to be.
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Which is why I think terrain masking is an important variable. Obviously, a conveniently-located mountain is going to help a lot vs. running in over 50 miles of ocean-flat southeastern Syria.
I wish there was a better way to visualize terrain in BMS. I find it somewhat difficult right now to figure out what sight lines are likely to be.
actually the Map on ITO is more topographic in nature then in KTO.
if you zoom in you should be able to see the topography.but yeah, it’s not a digital map, nor a topographic map
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If you think it’s savage flying israeli airforce against Syria or Egypt, try flying Egyptian Airforce against israel. Those AMRAAMs are killing us, alongside the effin Patriots God, I had to go from Faid airbase, to Jordan and attack the Patriots from the East to avoid waking up those Sufas and Ra’ams. Plus, the Egyptian Airforce’s equipment are wrong too, but I corrected that with F4Browse Plus the fact that the flat terrain doesn’t really give so much of an option to terrain mask myself.
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What is wrong with EAF equipment?
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Also f4browse is said as not compatible with BMS anymore.
Use falcon editor.Sent from TapaTalk