JSOW frustration
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I suppose the feedback is a crunching noise over the BMS speed limit M0.95….did a bit of testing in TEs a while back.
Was careful to stay in G limits but went over the speed limit, and was unable to pickle in any AG mode (but within all parameters). But if I stayed under the BMS speed limit it worked okay. So am assuming it was overspeed and all AG is limited to M0.95 for simplicity…but I’m sure others will confirm.
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I have an other question… is it normal that all fired weapons disappear from the moment I get shot down? Had this issue a few times, release my weapons, they are still on their way, then I got shot down and all 8 missiles get a missed status at this time… or is this a thing that depends on theaters?
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I have an other question… is it normal that all fired weapons disappear from the moment I get shot down? Had this issue a few times, release my weapons, they are still on their way, then I got shot down and all 8 missiles get a missed status at this time… or is this a thing that depends on theaters?
Wouldn’t it be because when you leave 3D, all objects are destroyed (in terms of metagaming), and your missiles considered as missing?
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But this does not make sense… I also can get shot down by a jet I shot down before his IR missile hits me… the missile is still there…
In the other direction I just need to kill the enemy before he hits something and all is okay? A weapon in the air should be a weapon in the air… do not know how this point is coded.
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Yeah… Well maybe it makes more sense if you consider that even shutting your computer down, your missiles should still hit the target :P. I see what you mean, it should work anyway. It’s the way it’s programmed that makes it so. Don’t turn 3D (End Mission) too soon. Wait a couple minutes to be sure, then do. And tell us the result, which, hopefully, will be that you didn’t loose a F16 to a battalion.
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JSOW is a standoff weapon (and I mean massive standoff), you shouldn’t have to get anywhere near a target for IR missiles to even be a factor. Target with either FCR or TGP, you’ll easily get 20-25 miles standoff. Set the final attack azimuth to align with your target, drop in tandem, trail, or single and watch the carnage on the ground. Is this how you’re employing the weapon or are you trying to do it like more traditional LGB/GBU or unguided bombs where you need to get fairly close to the target?
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I have been about 45NM away… then turned away joining an air combat. About 3 minutes after dropping the standoff weapons I got shot down and all 8 missiles disappeared… That is the strange thing.
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I have been about 45NM away… then turned away joining an air combat. About 3 minutes after dropping the standoff weapons I got shot down and all 8 missiles disappeared… That is the strange thing.
Altitude?
If you’re flying high, my only guess is you’re getting popped by SA-10, which do not produce a RWR launch warning, only a MUD spike, which knowing Red Dog’s training TEs, probably is the case. No IR missile can generally hit you above 10,000-15,000 ft, so it is probably radar guided and from a high level threat.
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Altitude?
If you’re flying high, my only guess is you’re getting popped by SA-10, which do not produce a RWR launch warning, only a MUD spike, which knowing Red Dog’s training TEs, probably is the case. No IR missile can generally hit you above 10,000-15,000 ft, so it is probably radar guided and from a high level threat.
He mentioned an IR missile only as an counter-example, for his JSOW disappearance, not to explain why he was destroyed. Beside this point, yes, it furiously whispers it’s a SA-10 story.
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If the the launch is 45nm out and you turn and go into A2A engagements, then you’re most likely to far out of the JSOW’s bubble when it approaches the intended target.
C9
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I have an other question… is it normal that all fired weapons disappear from the moment I get shot down? Had this issue a few times, release my weapons, they are still on their way, then I got shot down and all 8 missiles get a missed status at this time… or is this a thing that depends on theaters?
Hi Kuhprah hope your well.
As our good friend Chief Cloud has pointed out…
If you get shot down stay in 3d to maintain the bubble the J-slows exist in.
If your dead, there is no 3d to even have a bubble.
If you turn around and travel away you are risking the missile going 2d, along with the target, with little chance of it producing any results, we proved this with long rang Anti Radiation munitions ages ago.
The boys from BMS have made some changes to missile bubbles in the last year or so, therefor I need to look at these things again, now Im flying a bit more recently. -
45 miles shouldn’t produce that, imho as that’s well within the distance you fire at SA-10s with HARM or SA-5s, so I don’t think it’s aggregation, unless he is going 2D after shoot down. That should be the only reason. In fact, Shadow you started a thread way back in 2015 where I-Hawk alluded that the weapon itself doesn’t need a bubble and isn’t coded that way because it would be too limiting way before 4.33 was even released.
https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?21798-Unit-Bubble&p=317068&viewfull=1#post317068
Yes there is no temp bubble for weapons, only for the weapons seekers when used while still on the pylon (Mav/HARM seeker), as I stated above.
Temp bubbles with timer is good only for relatively short range and fast/dropped weapons (e.g Mavericks and bombs). For weapons with longer range and slower speed (e.g JSOW, JSSM) using a timer is kinda limiting.
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https://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?21798-Unit-Bubble&p=317068&viewfull=1#post317068
This is post #31 from that link, same page, I-Hawk responding to ED_1:
Yes, you have to be careful with bubbles size from small to large if player, AI etc interact . you need to make sure longest weapon range the bubble for unit is always higher and with missiles or long time of flight make sure if turn around there large enough or you get miss as launch ac leaves area .
Yes but the thing is that temp bubbles doesn’t have to be linked only to jets
We’re not talking temp bubbles here.
C9
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What Ed_1 is saying at least from how I read it, is that bubble sizes directly affect weapon range and aggregation and whether the target is hit or not. I’m pretty certain that was definitely 4.32 behavior. And I-Hawk from what I can read (and maybe I am comprehending this incorrectly) is saying that the bubble isn’t linked only to the jet anymore, but to the weapon itself. Reading between the lines he seems to be foreshadowing 4.33, at the time which seems to work under a new system. I’d love to get an official answer from him as this is important, but I think the weapon will hit, regardless of your distance once launched as it is it’s own entity now and not directly linked to the jet anymore. Only when on the pylon and directly linked to a sensor. He said it was limiting otherwise if it is limited to player bubble.
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Unless they have drastically changed it, I can say over my time developing on Falcon and as a member of a Falcon team, it was always the case that the weapon has a bubble tied to it as do all targets and if the player, which of course has a bubble strays out of the dimensions of that by turning away, that that can cause the weapon to miss.
But yes, I agree, if all that has been changed, it would be nice to get a clear cut explanation, so this could all be put to rest.
BTW, if you look at the CT Index or CT Data for the BMS Editor for weapons, they still have a bubble defined!?! But now the box no longer is labeled “Bubble” as in past tools, it is “Fine Update Range” in the BMS Editor, but the value is still the same at 60760!?
C9
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Yeah my friend, I can see both point of views and you might actually be totally correct, but when Shadow mentioned that it may be changed, I went searching and found that old post and I-Hawks teasing, as this was pre-4.33 release when this was written. It may not be changed at all and still works the same way as ever.
Part of my original answer was sort of irrelevant because I misunderstood what was being said, due to the posters limited English, specifically which IR missiles he’s talking about. That’s why I was picturing an undetected SA-10 or something of the sort. Only later after he clarified he went A2A, only then did I realize he was talking about IR from aircraft he went fighting against. I thought he was just misunderstanding where the missile was coming from and still flying in the general direction of the target he launched the JSOWs at which makes a big difference.
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Yeah, that’s why I quoted I-Hawk saying “Yes” to Ed_1 about his remark of a player turning out of the dimensions and the eventual miss. I’m sure you know that, just reiterating it.
But it will be interesting to hear if it was actually changed or not.
Off Topic: Now back to gathering data for some……errrr other theater!! Oh and making tiles. Should have some tidbits tomorrow evening.
C9
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I looked at the code now and I see that indeed, if you fired all such missiles, and now you have 0 quantity but you still keep the weapon type (meaning it’ll not work with Nav/AA modes or if you change weapon to say bombs), the missile position that was fired already will stay deaggregated, until impact.
But then again, it’s not complete code as it keeps only 1 previously fired missile position and as I said, it’ll not work if changing Master modes or selecting a weapon of different type.
In “operational” situations, you might target 4 different SAM radars which are positioned very far from each other, with say 4 JSOWs, fire all 4, then turn around and maybe engaged by bandits, and considering JSOW may take 3-4 minutes sometimes to reach the target, it’s not uncommon that you will have to change master mode while missiles are still airborne, and that’s where the problem is.
He went A2A. And gets “dead” Either/or and both are going to cause problems.
I have an other question… is it normal that all fired weapons disappear from the moment I get shot down? Had this issue a few times, release my weapons, they are still on their way, then I got shot down and all 8 missiles get a missed status at this time… or is this a thing that depends on theaters?
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That quote of I-Hawk’s was from April 2013. That particular issue with targets not staying deaggregated during long range air-to-surface weapon time-of-flight was fixed for 4.33 iirc.
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That quote of I-Hawk’s was from April 2013. That particular issue with targets not staying deaggregated during long range air-to-surface weapon time-of-flight was fixed for 4.33 iirc.
I know it was, and your comments above is what I was alluding to in a earlier post but was unable to find any references to it in change logs/posts. Can you access any info on the changes ?
I knew some work was done but couldn’t remember the details.