X-52 DX problem (I think)
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Yes, much clearer. FWIW:
3. F8-F11 - ie. the computer keyboard - did work while flying to slew the radar cursor,
but POV1 - the upper hat on the X52 stick - did not.
These two things are not (at least should not) be related. If your mini-stick doesn’t work, I don’t think there’s any point in loading the *.pr0 file …. iirc. I think the cursor slew is the only function in the *.pr0 file. The fact that cursor slew works via the keyboard is not due to the *.pr0 file, but due to the fact that the key commands are mapped in the BMS keyfile.
Your POV hat is another issue and I’m not sure what might be happening there. It might help if you post the the keyfile lines for the functions on the POV hat.
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The fact that cursor slew works via the keyboard is not due to the *.pr0 file, but due to the fact that the key commands are mapped in the BMS keyfile.
Thanks, understood. When I say the mini stick doesn’t work, I mean it does nothing in the sim. It responds fine in the Saitek controller calibration window. (And the mouse button corresponds to Dx 31 on calibration, but does nothing in the sim AFAICT.)
Right, it’s the POV hat that was the issue. Lemme get the sim installed again and I’ll report back.
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Got it.
In which case, I’d look here with regard to the mini-stick: “…. although, as stated, I did not remove the redundancy for F8-F11 which has them mapped to third party software as well as TMS.”
You can’t have two different actions mapped to one key … results are unpredictable; neither works, both work, one does, one doesn’t and/or all of the above.
Also for the F8 - F11 to be mapped to the mini-stick the appropriate *.pr0 file must be loaded.
One other thought … are you using TeamSpeak? If so, go to Tools–>Options -->Hot keys and make sure in the lower right the drop down is selected for ‘Keyboard & Mouse Only’.
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……You can’t have two different actions mapped to one key … results are unpredictable; neither works, both work, one does, one doesn’t and/or all of the above.
Aha! Not sure I’ve seen this assertion before, but could be the key (no pun intended) to my problem. Then again, why does the Viking keyfile have exactly that - two actions mapped to one key? Yes, the instructions mention that if TrackIR is used, that conflict should be removed, but my testing was done without loading the TrackIR software. Doesn’t that matter? Anyway, I’ll certainly investigate this when I’ve reinstalled BMS. Where do you X-52 guys remap TIR to?
Also for the F8 - F11 to be mapped to the mini-stick the appropriate *.pr0 file must be loaded.
It was loaded in those sessions where I tried to use the mini stick in flight.
One other thought …. are you using TeamSpeak? …
No, TIR is the only third party utility I have at the moment.
Thx for responding.
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The output of pr0 profile can be checked outside of BMS. There is a little gear-shaped icon to use the output checking function of SST. This will let you see what is the output when the directions of the ministick are pressed. This should show the keyboard presses and unpresses in the log to verify output.
Then in BMS what is best is to use your joystick to set the controls. For example if Button 1 = keyboard “A” set the control by finding the command in the list and press Button 1 on your joystick. If you press the “A” on your keyboard instead you are never 100% sure if the joystick will work.
Check that your cursor X/Y in axis options is set to ‘keyboard’ or keyboard inputs will be ignored (I think).
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The output of pr0 profile can be checked outside of BMS. There is a little gear-shaped icon to use the output checking function of SST. This will let you see what is the output when the directions of the ministick are pressed. This should show the keyboard presses and unpresses in the log to verify output.
Thanks, I never noticed that functionality before. But yes, it confirms the ministick and button are programmed as specified by the profile.
Then in BMS what is best is to use your joystick to set the controls. For example if Button 1 = keyboard “A” set the control by finding the command in the list and press Button 1 on your joystick. If you press the “A” on your keyboard instead you are never 100% sure if the joystick will work.
This has never worked for me - list items don’t “activate” when selected, and the only response of the UI to a button press is to go to the corresponding list item.
Check that your cursor X/Y in axis options is set to ‘keyboard’ or keyboard inputs will be ignored (I think).
And that may be why!! Doh! Will check after reinstalling BMS. (I’ve read that programming HOTAS this way will remove the commentary in the keyfile, but I guess it’d be worth it if this is surefire setup method. Will archive keyfile first.) Many thanks!!
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The “press button and list will scroll to that command” is one feature. But I refer to making keybindings in game by clicking a command so it highlights in blue and is receptive to the next key press. One way to make really sure that your joystick output is mimicking the key stroke is to bind that stroke to that command by using the joystick as your keyboard. And to do this to ensure a positive match. There’s always the slim chance of something screwy otherwise like your physical keyboard and the virtual keyboard F5 keys aren’t exactly the same (like one’s AZERTY and the other is QWERTY).
The other crazy notion is that the pr0 file is producing very very short “taps” of the F-whatever keys and you just don’t notice cursor movement because it’s very very tiny. The key commands in the profile should be a white color. If they are a gray color that’s a macro and probably has a tiny duration.
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…… But I refer to making keybindings in game by clicking a command so it highlights in blue and is receptive to the next key press. One way to make really sure that your joystick output is mimicking the key stroke is to bind that stroke to that command by using the joystick as your keyboard. …
Right, understood, but I was trying to say I couldn’t get a list item to highlight in blue and be receptive. As you suggest, it may be because I didn’t have an option set correctly. Will check when I reinstall.
The other crazy notion is that the pr0 file is producing very very short “taps” of the F-whatever keys and you just don’t notice cursor movement because it’s very very tiny. The key commands in the profile should be a white color. If they are a gray color that’s a macro and probably has a tiny duration.
Understood. The only mappings in this pr0 file set the ministick to F8-F11 and the ministick button (Dx 31) to Home. And I don’t really want TMS mapped to the ministick, I want it on the POV1 hat. So if I can get the hotas working properly in the game, I probably don’t need the pr0 profile at all.
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That’s pretty weird to not be able to get the blue highlight waiting for a keypress. One common reason for that is some joystick button is being pressed permanently so it’s instantly being bound (which could be its own problem). The highlight is only lasting one “frame” which is much too short for a human to notice. The inability to have a “ready to capture key/button” persist is quite a red flag.
I get what you mean about the profile. If it were me I would run a minimalist profile that only repurposed a few controls like the slider for speed brake and left everything else blank. Then I’d make use of the SimHotasPinkyShift callback to have effectively a shift layer. Since X-52 (I used to have an X-45) has 2 hats and F-16 has 4 on the stick I make trim/TMS the unshifted and DMS/CMS the shifted. As to cursor I think default non-SST behavior is something unfortunate like emulate mouse or something so I’d have to make that into keys or look into that registry hack to make it into DX axes.
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Ok, I reinstalled, and copied my previous configuration over. Same issue as before with POV1 not moving the cursor even though the keyfile has that mapping (as shown in the controller UI). So I’d like to map directly from the X52, but same problem here as well. If I left click on a line in the controller pane, it does not turn blue.
Now I thought I read somewhere that setting the controller that way is discouraged, and that BMS is designed not to allow it. But obviously people do it - I’ve seen numerous post in which they do it. So I’m assuming this is a problem in my setup. What was that potential fix again?
Since this is apparently a serious problem, I’m going to post in the general forum as well. Thx for any help.
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That’s pretty weird to not be able to get the blue highlight waiting for a keypress. One common reason for that is some joystick button is being pressed permanently so it’s instantly being bound (which could be its own problem). The highlight is only lasting one “frame” which is much too short for a human to notice. The inability to have a “ready to capture key/button” persist is quite a red flag.
I get what you mean about the profile. If it were me I would run a minimalist profile that only repurposed a few controls like the slider for speed brake and left everything else blank. Then I’d make use of the SimHotasPinkyShift callback to have effectively a shift layer. Since X-52 (I used to have an X-45) has 2 hats and F-16 has 4 on the stick I make trim/TMS the unshifted and DMS/CMS the shifted. As to cursor I think default non-SST behavior is something unfortunate like emulate mouse or something so I’d have to make that into keys or look into that registry hack to make it into DX axes.
This is common in both the x52 and x52 Pro. The mode switch on the Pro is very touchy and can be constantly triggering. Also, since you are assigning the mini stick to key presses, and they are extremely touchy without opening a dead zone, there isa really good chance they are continually firing in the background.
The registry hack is a really good way to run both of these Sticks. If you leave the Controller Properties page of the Control Panel open in the background while playing the game (The one that actually lights up when you press a button) it will expose all the axes so you don’t lose a rotary. It will also enable BMS to recognize the Mode Switch as a button press (Convenient for AA/AG toggle). It’s been a while since I used a non-pro 52, so grain of salt maybe? But I know this works on a 52 Pro–IF and ONLY IF you remove every speck of Saitek software from the system. Including all drivers, hidden files, downloaded files, system files, and registry entries. If anything is left anywhere even remotely related to MadCatz or Saitek, Windows will find it and try to use it–which makes it unusable in BMS.
EDIT:
Confirm you are NOT trying to use the mini stick? You are trying to use the regular POV to move the radar cursor? So you are mapping the output from the POV to F8-F11 via the Saitek software? And NO TIR installed? The game natively maps the POV hat to the view when TIR is not installed/enabled. I wonder if that is causing some issues? I was also operating under the impression this was a mini stick isues like Agave was… -
… POV1 not moving the cursor …
…. The particular problem that led here is that the POV1 won’t produce radar cursor movement (TMS functionality)….
Something occurs to me here, and from your other post about cursor movement and ‘TMS functionality’ …. and I may be WAY off base, but …
I would find it unusual that radar cursor slewing (in your case F8 - F11 in the Saitek *.pr0 file) would be assigned to the POV hat. That is found, in most cases, on the mini-stick on the throttle. It is entirely ‘normal’ to find TMS one of the X-52 hats on the stick … POV, for example, but ‘TMS functionality’ and cursor slewing are two entirely different things.
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Something occurs to me here, and from your other post about cursor movement and ‘TMS functionality’ …. and I may be WAY off base, but …
I would find it unusual that radar cursor slewing (in your case F8 - F11 in the Saitek *.pr0 file) would be assigned to the POV hat. That is found, in most cases, on the mini-stick on the throttle. It is entirely ‘normal’ to find TMS one of the X-52 hats on the stick … POV, for example, but ‘TMS functionality’ and cursor slewing are two entirely different things.
Agreed, I’m trying to follow along too and not doing so very effectively.
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Something occurs to me here, and from your other post about cursor movement and ‘TMS functionality’ …. and I may be WAY off base, but …
I would find it unusual that radar cursor slewing (in your case F8 - F11 in the Saitek *.pr0 file) would be assigned to the POV hat. That is found, in most cases, on the mini-stick on the throttle. It is entirely ‘normal’ to find TMS one of the X-52 hats on the stick … POV, for example,
Below are the Dx assignments from the keyfile. Buttons 16-19 are the POV1 cardinal positions on the X52 (unshifted). Am I not understanding something about how the keyfile works? Yes F8-F11 are mapped to the ministick in the .pr0 file, but I don’t have that loaded for the testing I reported above. (When I do load it, the ministick doesn’t slew the radar cursor anyway.)
SimTriggerFirstDetent 0 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "Trigger First Detent" "But.1" SimPickle 1 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "Pickle" "But.2" ToggleNVGMode 2 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "NIGHT VISION" "But.3" SimNextAGWeapon 3 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "SHORT: Next AG Weapon" "But.4" SimMissileStep 4 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "NWS A/R MSSLSTEP" "But.5" SimHotasPinkyShift 5 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "PinkyShift" "But.6" AFBrakesToggle 6 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "Speed Break Switch -Toggle" "But.7" SimToggleMissileCage 7 -1 -2 0 0x0 314 "Missile Cage" "But.8" AFGearToggle 8 -1 -2 0 0x0 119 "GEAR: LG Handle -Toggle" "But.9" SimCATSwitch 9 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "GEAR: STORES CONFIG Switch- Toggle" "But.10" SimNextWaypoint 10 -1 -2 0 0x0 122 "Next Waypoint" "But.11" SimPrevWaypoint 11 -1 -2 0 0x0 122 "Prev Waypoint" "But.12" OTWSelectWeaponMode 12 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "VIEWEXT: Weapon Camera" "But.13" OTWSelect3DCockpitMode 13 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "VIEWINT: Pan (3D) Cockpit" "But.14" SimTriggerSecondDetent 14 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "Trigger 2nd Detent" "But.15" SimTMSUp 15 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "But.16" SimTMSRight 16 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "But.17" SimTMSDown 17 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "But.18" SimTMSLeft 18 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "But.19" SimTransmitCom2 19 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "COMMS 2-Up-VHF" "BUT.20" SimCommsSwitchRight 20 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "IFF-IN-UP" "BUT.21" SimTransmitCom1 21 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "COMMS 1-Down-UHF" "BUT.22" SimCommsSwitchLeft 22 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "IFF-OUT-DOWN" "BUT.23" SimSelectMRMOverride 23 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "MRM Override" "But.24 SimDeselectOverride 24 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "Deselect DF/MRM" "But.25" SimSelectSRMOverride 25 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "DF Override" "BUT.26" SimICPNav 26 -1 -2 0 0x0 122 "ICP: NAV Mode" "But.27" SimICPAA 27 -1 -2 0 0x0 122 "ICP: A-A Button" "But.28" SimICPAG 28 -1 -2 0 0x0 122 "ICP: A-G Button" "But.29" SimCursorEnable 29 -1 -2 0 0x0 314 "Cursor Enable" "But.30" # VAC "But.31" SimRFSwitch 31 -1 -2 0 0x0 310 "RF Switch-Cycle" "BUT.32" # #=================================================================================== # # # =====SHIFTED BMS DX 257-287===== # # SimWheelBrakes 256 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "wheelbrake" "But.1" SimEmergencyJettison 257 -1 -2 0 0x0 123 "Pickle" "But.2" SimStepMasterArm 258 -1 -2 0 0x0 311 "MAster Arm Toggle" "BUT.3" SimLaserArmToggle 259 -1 -2 0 0x0 310 "LASER Switch - Toggle" "BUT.4" AFResetTrim 260 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "TRIM RESET" "BUT.5" SimHotasPinkyShift 261 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "PINKYSHIFT" "BUT.6" SimSlapSwitch 262 -1 -2 0 0x0 318 "CMS program #5" "BUT.7" SimToggleMissileSpotScan 263 -1 -2 0 0x0 314 "Missile Spot/Scan "But.8" SimEject 264 -1 -2 0 0x0 117 "SEAT: EJECT Handle- Hold For Eject" "But.9" SimLeftAPSwitch 265 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "MISC: ROLL Switch - Cycle" "But.10" SimHSDRangeStepUp 266 -1 -2 0 0x0 126 "SHORT: HSD Range Increase" "But.11" SimHSDRangeStepDown 267 -1 -2 0 0x0 126 "SHORT: HSD Range Decrease" "But.12" FOVToggle 268 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "VIEWGEN: Look Closer - Toggle" "But.13" SimRightAPSwitch 269 -1 -2 0 0x0 319 "PITCH Switch-Cycle (also Combat AP)" "But.14" SimAPOverride 270 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "Paddle Switch AP override" "But.15" SimCMSUp 271 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "ECM/CMS" "But.16" SimCMSRight 272 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "ECM/CMS" "But.17" SimCMSDown 273 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "ECM/CMS" "But.18" SimCmsLeft 274 -1 -2 0 0x0 0 "ECM/CMS" "But.19" SimRadarAzimuthScanChange 275 -1 -2 0 0x0 126 "BUT.20" SimRadarAGModeStep 276 -1 -2 0 0x0 124 "BUT.21" SimRadarBarScanChange 277 -1 -2 0 0x0 124 "BUT.22" SimRadarAAModeStep 278 -1 -2 0 0x0 124 "BUT.23" SimInteriorLight 282 -1 -2 0 0x0 116 "LIGHT: CONSOLES Knob (Flood)- Cycle" "But.27" SimExtlPower 283 -1 -2 0 0x0 115 "EXT: MASTER Switch- Toggle" "But.28" SimInstrumentLight 284 -1 -2 0 0x0 116 "LIGHT: INST PNL Knob (Primary)-Cycle" "BUT.29" SimRadarCursorZero 285 -1 -2 0 0x0 125 "RDR CURSOR Zero" "BUT.30" # SimDoNothing "But.31" SimCBEOSB_8L 287 -1 -2 0 0x0 126 "SNOWPLOW AG" "BUT.32" #------------------------------------POV Hat 1------------------------------------------ SimDMSUp 0 -1 -3 0 0x0 115 "DMS Up" SimDMSRight 0 -1 -3 2 0x0 115 "DMS Right" SimDMSDown 0 -1 -3 4 0x0 115 "DMS Down" SimDMSLeft 0 -1 -3 6 0x0 115 "DMS Left" AFElevatorTrimUp 2 -1 -3 0 0x0 309 "ELV trim up" AFAileronTrimRight 2 -1 -3 2 0x0 309 "AIL right" AFElevatorTrimDown 2 -1 -3 4 0x0 309 "ELV trim down" AFAileronTrimLeft 2 -1 -3 6 0x0 309 "AIL trim left"
but ‘TMS functionality’ and cursor slewing are two entirely different things.
uh oh, now I’m wondering if I have a fundamental misunderstanding. Is not the TMSup callback equivalent to slewing the radar cursor up (in TWS mode)? If not, it’s back to the manuals for me.
Nevertheless, I suspect my lockout from being able to set hotas buttons directly from the controller UI is at the heart of my problems. I’d like to solve that issue first. Even if I simply unplug the X52, that issue persists.
@MoreteSil - Sounds like you’re saying the Mad Catz stuff can produce instability even when the hotas is cleared of profiles? Wow, removing it completely sounds drastic. And it could cause issues with other simulators. Agreed the Mad Catz software does appear flaky, but I hope I can solve my problems without removing it completely.
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TMS Up/Dn/L/R is NOT slewing the Radar Cursor. They are functions of the aircraft. TMSUp for instance is used to bug and lock targets. Back is used to release the lock. Lots of info in the manual on this.
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…. Buttons 16-19 are the POV1 …
No. BMS defines one hat as ‘THE POV Hat’ …. in the case of the X52 it is the hat on the lower center/right of the stick. That’s a bit of a technicality, but it matters in the sense that BMS handles THE POV hat slightly differently than other buttons/hats on the HOTAS. For your keyfile THE POV hat is these lines:
Unshifted:
SimDMSUp 0 -1 -3 0 0x0 115 “DMS Up”
SimDMSRight 0 -1 -3 2 0x0 115 “DMS Right”
SimDMSDown 0 -1 -3 4 0x0 115 “DMS Down”
SimDMSLeft 0 -1 -3 6 0x0 115 “DMS Left”Shifted:
AFElevatorTrimUp 2 -1 -3 0 0x0 309 “ELV trim up”
AFAileronTrimRight 2 -1 -3 2 0x0 309 “AIL right”
AFElevatorTrimDown 2 -1 -3 4 0x0 309 “ELV trim down”
AFAileronTrimLeft 2 -1 -3 6 0x0 309 “AIL trim left”Hat2 is the hat on the upper left of the stick … that is buttons 16 - 19 and controls TMS (unshifted) and CMS (shifted).
TMS (Target Management System) is a multi-functional set of commands that depends on certain ‘states’ or Master Modes … i.e., in some states it does one thing, in another state it does something else. There are two very nice diagrams in the BMS dash 1 manual around pages 28 and 56 that show F16 HOTAS functionalities based on Master Modes.
As mentioned cursor slewing is separate from all of that. Somewhere in the keypress assignments of your keyfile, you should find the following lines:
SimCursorDown -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor down”
SimCursorLeft -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor left”
SimCursorRight -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor right”
SimCursorUp -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor up”(where ‘xxxx’ is the hex name for F8 - F11)
You should be able to find those lines by pressing F8, F9, F10 and F11 in the controllers UI … the UI will ‘jump’ to those commands when the F8 - F11 keys are pressed.
The Saitek *.pr0 file ‘presses’ F8 - F11 for you when you move the mini-stick (or, it should if it’s functioning properly). IOW, the cursor will slew when you press the actual key on the keyboard AND it will slew when the Saitek *pr0 file ‘virtually presses’ the keyboard key for you.
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Thanks guys for bearing with me and for the explanations. As a noob, I’ve only practiced ramp start and landing (TE1&TE3), so even though I’ve scanned the documents, I really haven’t absorbed fully how the TMS, etc. systems work or are supposed to respond to the controller. The problem is I don’t have confidence that my X52 is actually functioning properly. I’ll make comments below, but perhaps you could help me now with this one question: Is the controllers UI supposed to respond with a blue bar when I click on a list item, and is it then supposed to permit me to set a button on the X52 as Frederf says? If so, then I have a malfunction and I need direction on how to fix it, because mine has never shown that behavior through two complete installs.
No. BMS defines one hat as ‘THE POV Hat’ …. in the case of the X52 it is the hat on the lower center/right of the stick. That’s a bit of a technicality, but it matters in the sense that BMS handles THE POV hat slightly differently than other buttons/hats on the HOTAS. For your keyfile THE POV hat is these lines:
Unshifted:
SimDMSUp 0 -1 -3 0 0x0 115 “DMS Up”
SimDMSRight 0 -1 -3 2 0x0 115 “DMS Right”
SimDMSDown 0 -1 -3 4 0x0 115 “DMS Down”
SimDMSLeft 0 -1 -3 6 0x0 115 “DMS Left”Shifted:
AFElevatorTrimUp 2 -1 -3 0 0x0 309 “ELV trim up”
AFAileronTrimRight 2 -1 -3 2 0x0 309 “AIL right”
AFElevatorTrimDown 2 -1 -3 4 0x0 309 “ELV trim down”
AFAileronTrimLeft 2 -1 -3 6 0x0 309 “AIL trim left”Hat2 is the hat on the upper left of the stick … that is buttons 16 - 19 and controls TMS (unshifted) and CMS (shifted).
Yes got it. I was confused about which hat is POV1, but not about their respective functionalities. But when you don’t know yet how to use those functionalities, and you’re not sure whether the controller is well behaved, it’s hard to test in game.
TMS (Target Management System) is a multi-functional set of commands that depends on certain ‘states’ or Master Modes …. i.e., in some states it does one thing, in another state it does something else. There are two very nice diagrams in the BMS dash 1 manual around pages 28 and 56 that show F16 HOTAS functionalities based on Master Modes.
On the agenda for intensive study.
As mentioned cursor slewing is separate from all of that. Somewhere in the keypress assignments of your keyfile, you should find the following lines:
SimCursorDown -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor down”
SimCursorLeft -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor left”
SimCursorRight -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor right”
SimCursorUp -1 0 xxxx 0 0 0 1 “Radar-cursor up”(where ‘xxxx’ is the hex name for F8 - F11)
You should be able to find those lines by pressing F8, F9, F10 and F11 in the controllers UI … the UI will ‘jump’ to those commands when the F8 - F11 keys are pressed.
Yup, they’re there and those keys work while flying.
The Saitek *.pr0 file ‘presses’ F8 - F11 for you when you move the mini-stick (or, it should if it’s functioning properly). IOW, the cursor will slew when you press the actual key on the keyboard AND it will slew when the Saitek *pr0 file ‘virtually presses’ the keyboard key for you.
Yes, the ministick works like this now, and the keys have always worked. Am no longer sure the ministick didn’t work before. Of course, were I to remove the Saitek software as MorteSil suggests, this functionality would be lost.
So again, any advice focused on simply assuring myself that the X52 is properly interfacing with the sim, and that the UI itself is healthy, would be appreciated. Many thanks.
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Short answer, yes, just as Frederf describes …. click the function in the UI, it changes color, push a button on the HOTAS and now that function is assigned to that button.
I’ve never read about that not working. I really can’t imagine what would cause it not to. I doubt it’s a faulty HOTAS though.
$0.02; ymmv
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This is common in both the x52 and x52 Pro. The mode switch on the Pro is very touchy and can be constantly triggering.
If you divorce the mode switch from mode switching and let it be an actual button then it will be pressed permanently. What I did when dinosaurs still roamed the earth with my X-45 is program the mode switch to be “macro” and give a single tap of M D C keystrokes so that the majority of the time no output was generated. If you assign a white keystroke it will hold down that keyboard key 100% of the time (similarly if left blank it will do the same with a DX button).
Also, since you are assigning the mini stick to key presses, and they are extremely touchy without opening a dead zone, there isa really good chance they are continually firing in the background.
I would hope that the pr0 he found was smart enough to make 3 bands out of the axes with keystrokes in the first and third bands and blank in the middle. But people’s ability to screw up the obvious never ceases to surprise me. Hopefully by checking the gear icon output log that sort of nonsense would quickly be noticed.
The registry hack…IF and ONLY IF you remove every speck of Saitek software from the system.
I’ve only heard tales about it. I thought you had to kiss off one of the axes to get it to work because the limit is 8 and if you go counting rotaries and throttles and the cursor as X and Y you end up with 9. In any case if you have to lose SST functionality it’s absolutely not worth it. Setting the slider axis to 3 bands to control the speed brake is worth using SST on its own.
Below are the Dx assignments from the keyfile.
Your key file angers and confuses me I have so many questions. I’ve never seen more than one “” marked section per line nor have I seen the “” label on a joystick bind line before. Is this your entire key file? Clearly not as you wouldn’t be able to esc to end a mission, eject, etc.
I would also recommend to get a lot of that filth like “SimNextAGWeapon” off your joystick. Those kind of callbacks are from the 1998 half-ass days and represent no real F-16 function. I know I’m going to sound like an old geezer about this but I really recommend keeping stuff not on the real F-16 HOTAS off your joystick. Your life is much better in the long run. The physical keyboard is an underappreciated video game controller.
The stuff I’d de-joystick:
Night vision
Next AG weapon
LG handle
Stores config
next waypoint
weapon view
3d camera
laser arm
trim reset
missile spot/scan
az change
bar change
cursor zero
snowplow
and maybe even wheel brakeIn fact…. who wrote this hunk of junk? No one deserves this nonsense control scheme. I would reference the controls by their Microsoft number if I had a good reference instead of their Saitek name, but I don’t. Here’s what I would do with a blank sheet of paper (shifted controls in parentheses):
Trigger - Trigger 1st Trigger 2nd (Wheel Brake)
Fire - Weapon Release
Fire A - Missile Step
Fire B -
Fire C - AP Paddle
Pinky - Pinky shift
Toggle 1/2 - Master Arm-Safe {not toggle}
Toggle 3/4 -
Toggle 5/6 - Gear Up-Down {not toggle}
Hat 1 - Trim (CMS)
Hat 2 - TMS (DMS)
Mouse Wheel - MRM-Cancel-DGFT keyboard macro press
Hat 3 - COM/IFF
Fire 3 - Uncage
Fire D - Decrease FOV
Clutch - Increase FOV
Mouse Button - EnableX/Y - X/Y
Rotate - (use roll linked steering)
Z - Throttle
Rotary 1 - Antenna Elevation
Rotary 2 - Range Knob
Slider - 3 bands: Speed brake open-hold-close keyboard emulation
Mouse - 3 bands: up-down-left-right keyboard key emulation with middle 1/9th blankYou might try rotate stick as rudder but you’ll probably hate it. In all cases where a button has only one function be sure to map it twice shifted and unshifted to the same callback so it works regardless of shift button press.
Buttons 16-19 are the POV1 cardinal positions on the X52 (unshifted).
I know what you mean but I want to break you of a bad habit real quick. Please reserve “POV” to refer to the specific DirectX joystick output or you’ll cause much confusion. I’ll explain. A generic DirectX joystick consists of 8 axes (X Y Z RX RY RZ U V), 32 buttons, and one POV hat (values 0-8, numbered clockwise increasing with a centered number). As such regardless of what the marketeers at Saitek/MadCatz wrote on the box the identities of the various features of your joystick must be a form of this generic format. You’ll notice the drivers call it “POV 1” “POV 2” “Throttle Hat” as if they were all equal. It’s bollocks! POV 1 is the POV. POV 2 is buttons 10-13, Throttle Hat is buttons 14-17. Just because Saitek calls a collection of four buttons a “POV” doesn’t make it so.
Yes F8-F11 are mapped to the ministick in the .pr0 file, but I don’t have that loaded for the testing I reported above. (When I do load it, the ministick doesn’t slew the radar cursor anyway.)
If F8-F11 on your physical keyboard are moving FCR cursor and your Saitek profile is turning mini-stick into virtual F8-F11 keyboard presses but the ministick isn’t controlling the FCR cursor then I’m short on ideas. That’s a simple A therefore B therefore C chain. There are only so many ways that A isn’t doing C!
uh oh, now I’m wondering if I have a fundamental misunderstanding. Is not the TMSup callback equivalent to slewing the radar cursor up (in TWS mode)? If not, it’s back to the manuals for me.
Target Management Switch (TMS) - 4-way switch on the side stick controller (SSC) to control targeting e.g. locking and unlocking
Display Management Switch (DMS) - 4-way switch on SSC to control which display (MFD, HUD) is selected
Countermeasure Management Switch (CMS) - 4-way switch on SSC to control electronic warfare system (EWS)
Cursor/Enable - proportional control in 2-axis on the throttle grip for moving a cursor on the currently selected display, e.g. radar. Also the control can be pressed inward to function as the enable button.To slew the radar you must be airborne, have the FCR MFD format selected (outlined), be in a slewable FCR mode (e.g. RWS, TWS, GM, GMT), and deflect the cursor control.
Nevertheless, I suspect my lockout from being able to set hotas buttons directly from the controller UI is at the heart of my problems. I’d like to solve that issue first. Even if I simply unplug the X52, that issue persists.
I can tell you why it won’t work without a profile running, because the mode switch is providing a permanently pressed DirectX button output in all three positions. This is because Saitek are colossal idiots for making all three positions a button when they should make the extreme positions buttons and infer it must be in the middle position for mode-selection purposes whenever the other two weren’t pressed. Then at least you could set the control to center and play a simple game and it would stay out of your hair.
On the X-45 what I did was make a new profile and assign a simple macro to the mode switch position of a brief tap of spacebar or similar safe key. Upon running the profile it would hit that virtual keyboard key once and never again so I’d be free to bind the rest of it in some game without the held button interrupting. In fact I had a most-blank profile with just the mode switch (and perhaps Aux) macro’d to a minor key press so it wouldn’t have constant output so it wouldn’t confound my other binding efforts in various games. Once I was done in the binding area of whatever game I could undo this suppression of output hack and all would be well.
However if you remove the joystick completely from the system and you still can’t get a waiting for button that’s no good a-tall. My only question is what text do you see below the ADVANCED SAVE LOAD and above the CANCEL APPLY OK buttons in the setup screen when you first enter. When I press for example Ctrl-E I get “Ctrl e (new line) Eject”. Any text here when you arrive before you’ve had a chance to press anything would be very helpful in troubleshooting some stray input. If it says “Button 97 yadda yadda” then that’s the stray input.
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@Freederf if you don’t use/like the twist rudder then what would be the problem in losing an axis? Steering can be accomplished in a number of ways–particularly since it is much less essential to keep both hands on the controller while on the ground, so it seems wasteful to me to use an entire axis for something like that. The speed brake could just as easily be set to the 3 positions of the Mode Switch, and use the slider for TGP zoom. The Mode Switch, without SST, are just straight DX buttons. I find it more effective to use one of the 3-way switches for Speed Brake Open/Close though, and use the Mode Switch for AA/AG Master Mode switching.
In regards to losing an axis however, there are more than one way to hack the registry for this controller. Admittedly though, now that I think about it (It’s been a while, my apologies) I believe I sent the 9th axis output to appear as an additional axis on the Xbox controller so I retained them all, and got an additional 15 or so buttons out of the deal.
If you work at it a bit there is nothing you can do in the SST that you can’t find a good way to do without it, it’s just preference. For me, the SST was worthless and caused 50x more issues than it ever solved, so I figured out a better way. If it works for you and you don’t get random ghost presses, and unreliable output, then I say great. But for me it was terrible.