Irisdynamics Magnetic FFB
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Soooo…
- how much does it cost?
- how is it interfaced?
- how do I shield any other electronics around it from the magnetic field?
- is it affected by PWM dimming for lighting and/or such?
- do I have to mount it in a non-magnetic supporting structure?
- how much power does it require?
- DC or AC power?
8 ) how much current does it draw? - does the power supply have to be computer controlled/modulated/throttled?
- how do power required/force feedback (max breakout) amount vary with stick length?
- how many cycles to failure in each axis, nominally?
- is it user serviceable?
- parts availability/cost?
I’m sure I’ll think of more questions after a night’s sleep…I only ask because I might not mind using one of these in a floor mounted center stick setup - but only with a prop driven sim.
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@A.S:
Who in the world says one MUST fly the F-16 with a poopoopressure stick ?
Even so, what good is force feedback on a FBW system?
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Even so, what good is force feedback on a FBW system?
force feedback can be disabled. tension (resistance) can be analog adjusted. sensors are not required, because the position of the magnet is automatically registered in the coils.
this construct might appear wierd and wicked for sure…but actually it is pretty smart imo.
this thing will run for 50 years … without wear. i just wonder, if the control software is available… because i could easily build this myself.
for FFB to be effective AND good, the sim itself needs a GOOD FFB built in interface… i doubt, there is any sim out there with the FFB quality of racing sims nowadays - but the floating resistance ajustment is tempting - and the precision without mechanical play (ball bearing gimbal).
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Soooo…
- how much does it cost?
- how is it interfaced?
- how do I shield any other electronics around it from the magnetic field?
- is it affected by PWM dimming for lighting and/or such?
- do I have to mount it in a non-magnetic supporting structure?
- how much power does it require?
- DC or AC power?
8 ) how much current does it draw? - does the power supply have to be computer controlled/modulated/throttled?
- how do power required/force feedback (max breakout) amount vary with stick length?
- how many cycles to failure in each axis, nominally?
- is it user serviceable?
- parts availability/cost?
I’m sure I’ll think of more questions after a night’s sleep…I only ask because I might not mind using one of these in a floor mounted center stick setup - but only with a prop driven sim.
just curious …what joystick do you have… and did you buy that one following that checklist
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Strange… I thought dick-waving season didn’t open until 15th September…
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@A.S:
just curious …what joystick do you have… and did you buy that one following that checklist
I have a HOTAS Warthog (planning on another WH stick), one complete HOTAS Cougar, and two Cougar TQSs…and a set of Saitek Combat Pro rudder pedals. And yes, I did check them all out this thoroughly after I wasted a lot of money buying the complete HOTAS Cougar instead of just the TQS. I’m a bit serious about this stuff…having invested large $$$ in my current Viper cockpit.
But it doesn’t matter - I found the spec sheet for the thing and got most of my answers - except for cost, which I expect will be quite high. For one, the prototype is only able to provide a Y axis max force of 37 N @ 180 Watts…that’s roughly about 8 lbf, and given that I happen to know that the design control force for a P-51 is about 25 lbf per G…well, this thing falls short of providing any near-“realistic” force feedback as proto-typed, for what I was thinking of doing with it. Way short…considering that it’s a 37 N spec based on that short stick, and a longer one (wave on…) would require even higher power/current. And probably size - they do say they can scale them…cost also following scale, I’d reckon.
I thought these could be promising…not so much anymore.
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Strange… I thought dick-waving season didn’t open until 15th September…
Size matters no matter what the season, when $$$ are involved.
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Strange… I thought dick-waving season didn’t open until 15th September…
What kind of grip were you thinking of attaching to it like?!
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Ive always liked FFB for MS FS and WW2 sims (via MS Sidewinder FFB Pro2 USB), but I don’t want FFB messing with my force modded Cougar. I do like the idea of the magnetic X/Y axes as theres no pots. However this can be achieved far cheaper with Hall Sensor devices or strain gauges, that we have already. Now if TM would replace some of its pot-metal and plastic ball/sockets with stainless steel, then that’s something I could get behind buying. Still, this is a very cool project.
I too “collect” various joysticks as backups and alternatives (like Stevie). One of these days ill have to thin the herd, but I do see how being very involved in this hobby can result in hoarding to some extent. Its kind of how some golf enthusiasts have 50 clubs, 30 sets of shoes, 5 bags, etc… which always brings on the ire of wives.
Note however, this sitck might not be compatible with a EDtrackerPro with its MEM techonology
:lol: -
the FFB (vibrator dildo function) i dont like so much about this stick… especially on f16 - can be disabled anyways… … but what i love about it, it has dynamic pressure adjustment based on the Gs you pull … the ability to “feel” increasing stick-resistance with higher G-load … …THAT is mmmh mmmh mhhhhhh on many other jets too.
sensors it does not need…because the coils act as feed and read (sensor) at the same time (ingenious actually).
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The problem with it is that it can’t simulate G loading properly/realistically - it’s too weak. And it draws a lot of power - 62 to 180 watts as spec’d; more if you scale it - so it’s not even close to being a USB device…not a stand alone one, anyway. Most jets that I know about or have worked on (that have sticks that move) provide stick feel using springs…way less complex. And cheaper, especially from our standpoint. Want “real” - use springs. I’ve even got a few places bookmarked that wind custom ones.
…and I forgot I also have an FCC-3 on my Cougar stick…and plan to grab one of the new WH FCC-3s. Far more appropriate for a Viper.
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Force simulations have been done with electric motors and gears, or and toothed belts, with springs or and transitional mechanics - once even on a very expensive desktop stick with hydrolics.
Sensorics have been done with potis, hall-sensors, piezoelectric sensor, etc etc.I dont think the original pounds pressures would suit on a desktop anyways (F15, F14 as examples), but to be able to feel the force or tension with increasing G-load (or stick-travel - how i have atm), is truly very handy.
This new way is just unique and worth more tought i believe, but it is as good in the feel and flight? … no idea… would have to try it.
Dont get me wrong…i am not selling it … just intrigued by the completly new approach.
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The ability to get tactile feedback on the stick as a function of flight surface G loading is something better suited for aircraft without modern FLCS controlled hydraulics and FBW, yes? If this is the case, then this cool new stick wouldn’t be applicable to our BMS or DCS worlds, I would think. Where as it would be very applicable for how a A6M3 Zero’s stick becomes immovable in a fast dive after a certain point, or how buffeting can be felt as the a/c goes through its turns and point of departure.
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Yes. In fighters with hydraulic actuators that I know of “force” feedback is provided by system of springs and/or mechanical stops - and really more correctly thought of as “feel”; i.e. - an emulation of the true force. You only really get direct dynamic feel if the controls are directly connected with pulleys/cables/rods - two examples I can think of are the rudders on the Harrier and Hawk.
I’m not much of a fan of any of the “force feedback” controllers I’ve ever tried (they generally break…), but I can’t help but think that something like this one could have some really practical applications in robotics or human augmentation mechanisms. Maybe drone control. Flight sims? Not so much.
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The thing is how well this new tech will emulate the real F-16 stick.
Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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Very poorly…because it moves and the real F-16 stick does not, nor does it have anything resembling FFB. If you want a good F-16 stick, get an FCC-3!
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Flight sims? Not so much.
Yes and no.
Reason is, because we dont have the extra physical-sense immersion a real pilot has; and even though the F-16 is FBW aswell, the additional ability to FEEL the “load” by hand (what else in a desk-chair, vibrating e-pillows? lol) …is priceless. Btw… something you DO already feel in the F-16 aswell… the more pressure! (hand-pull) the more load - just non-moving controler.
Is it 100% realistic? … No ofc not, but sitting on a “stale” 2D PC screen is not in the first place - and FBW 16 is not the only sim (plane) out there. Such a stick would be a good cross-platform solution.PS: I also was never a fan of “force feedback” on sticks - exception are more sophisticated racing wheels. The tech and the software support from those racing-sims is excellent often.
About the FCC3… to be very honest… i believe, people who have electronics base knowledge and metal-work skills, could make a better and cheaper version of that.
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Well I thought it could emulate it.
Meaning the movement will be minimal and it would understand how much force u exercise on it cause it will have to increase the magnetic field so the stick will not move.Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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@A.S:
i believe, people who have electronics base knowledge and metal-work skills, could make a better and cheaper version of that.
If they have, they’ve not made it or any plans for it available aside from the poor man’s FCC…
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If they have, they’ve not made it or any plans for it available aside from the poor man’s FCC…
I haven´t seen more than “poor mans FCCs” either… BUT i have seen the tech used in the FCC3 and i know there are better, more precise, more endurable “load sensors” on the market for only a little higher prices. I never forget one thing: “Product” means mostly, lowest possible production cost >> highest possible sales price (profit) - NO MATTER how it is marketed. This insane “gap” becomes even more evident, if you look (or see) how much millitary equipment costs with similar to even shittier tech.