Irisdynamics Magnetic FFB
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Alright, i will bite - for the sake of respectfull conversation and entertainment.
Call me liar or mean. I dont give a shit about what you think tbh., because your motives and argumentations are transparent and so far empty.
Yes, all that is, what i said and i stand for it for good reasons-
Nay sayers like you are usually the ones bragging later owning one of such devices, because they buy always the āstatus quo crapā. They have no other choice.
I have seen the same bashing and ridicule with MFGCrosswind pedals initially as he started from the āgarageā. Now people are ābraggingā with picture posts, that they bought and own one. -
People with a purpose and a background, dont just ābragā (correction: question current offerings) or write like i did for no reason. I am aware of the BS AND valueable feedback i will get back.
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AV8Rs and Stevies posts had content and intelligence, you are just arguing for the sake of it. We have many of that kind people in the sim community. Not able to add much, but loud in bitching much.
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If you would know me better, you would know, that i shared shit loads of information on that mattter on the FO forums, but few things (own ideas) i can and will not share at this moment - for obvious reasons.
IF i ever will really produce itā¦ you will know about it soon enough. There is a high probability, but i canĀ“t make promises, nor tell when atm. So far i only built one for myselfā¦ and other (the real ideas) exist only āon paperā (within software).
What i can tell you though is, that ā¦ (well, i dont think it interests you anyways, but it might interest others)
ā¦the initial market research, product comparisions, analysis of these and their details and the own initial design/proto-types and tests are the lesser problem. The distribution channels later are not a big of an issue either. The branding, registration and marketing is also not a problem, at least not from my perspective or point.
Understanding the demand and needs, and wishes of customers/users is MOST crucial. Understanding the flaws of ācurrent offeringsā THEREFORE aswell! And now we get to the price(cost) possible.
The BIGGEST problem is in the finding profit-able production-cost solutions IF the intent is to produce in higher numbers!!!
That instance is mostly - if not always - underestimated by āgarage inventorsā and āLow cost FCC DIYĀ“ersā and it is, what drives the sales price at the end.
My problem is not, starting it (ie. making few units and selling them by order and gaining feedbacks and reviews ā¦or/and growing with the orders). My problem is, how to proceed, if shit gets real (if it really grows in numbers).
I have been in contact with two industrial designers and a friend, who already went through all this selling more than 4 million units of his own product. They were able to give me an insight into this area (cost analysis, sub-contractors, machines, molds, packaging, transport etc etc)ā¦ and you would be suprised, how expensive things can get. I can fully understand, why āMadCatzā (Saitek) i.e is made in foreign countries (Korea, Taiwan? i forgot) and why the design concept they used therefore. I also can respect (understand) the struggles thrustmaster faces(d).
Nevertheless, most sticks on the market are litterally over-priced junk! and use really low quality components and internally hidden ācrap designā - people with smarts and honesty owning those agree with me (but most guys buy āby the looksā and decide āsubjectiveā and dont dare to take a screw driver and look inside things anyways).The industry provides massive and better alternatives if it comes to components (i.e micro-switches, sensors, cables etc etc), but againā¦
the real challange is to create a product line from the ābathtub ideaā all the way to final distributionā¦ well planed and thought-through in all aspects.Ofc, you can built one prototypeā¦ ābragā about the solution with pictures on forums. Many guys have done that, especially on russian forums ā¦ their DIYs are way more advanced what i have ever seen on english forums.
If it is only a hobby, then this act (sharing is caring) is a nobel act - although even those people found or met their personal ā-ICE-sā who just knew it all better and all feedback was only critisism and provocations - real āwindā, lol.
But, if the intent is to commercialize those ideasā¦this kind of premature bragging would be litterally STUPID. -
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I have absolutely no idea why you come at me with attitude and frankly, this exchange has lowered my respect for youā¦ but you donāt care what I think anyway, so no issues there eh?
@A.S:
Alright, i will bite - for the sake of respectfull conversation and entertainment.
Reading the rest of your post, you sure have a funny definition of ārespect.āCall me liar or mean. I dont give a shit about what you think tbh., because your motives and argumentations are transparent and so far empty.
Yes, all that is, what i said and i stand for it for good reasons
Pffft!! My motives are my own and trust me when I say youāre far off the mark. As for arguments, Iām not making any. Iām only asking questions and asking you for proof of statements YOU made. Thatās not against some forum rule or some law, is it?- Nay sayers like you are usually the ones bragging later owning one of such devices, because they buy always the āstatus quo crapā. They have no other choice.
I have seen the same bashing and ridicule with MFGCrosswind pedals initially as he started from the āgarageā. Now people are ābraggingā with picture posts, that they bought and own one.
Stereotype much? Also, Iām not the one doing the bashing of an established product here, mate.
Also, to prove my point that youāre talking out of your bottom, take a look at this:
Does that look like an FCC or FSSB setup to you? Putting your foot in your mouth again, and this time shoving it in with gusto, I seeā¦
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People with a purpose and a background, dont just ābragā (correction: question current offerings) or write like i did for no reason. I am aware of the BS AND valueable feedback i will get back.
LOLā¦ valuable feedback for a product that you may or most likely may NOT bring to market? -
AV8Rs and Stevies posts had content and intelligence, you are just arguing for the sake of it. We have many of that kind people in the sim community. Not able to add much, but loud in bitching much.
Sure, dude, sure. Also, youāre confusing āaskingā and arguing. I apparently also donāt add much to the comunity as well. Iām sorry but Iām finding it difficult to find that ārespectful conversationā you were talking aboutā¦. -
If you would know me better, you would know, that i shared shit loads of information on that mattter on the FO forums, but few things (own ideas) i can and will not share at this moment - for obvious reasons.
IF i ever will really produce itā¦ you will know about it soon enough. There is a high probability, but i canĀ“t make promises, nor tell when atm. So, far i only built one for myselfā¦ and other (the real ideas) exists only āon paperā (within software).
Sorry, I donāt go to the FO forumsā¦ and like I said, if your intention was not to share, you couldāve made that much, much clearer from the get-go.What i can tell you though is, that ā¦ (well, i dont think it interests you anyways, but it might interest others)
Hahahaā¦ cute! Very noble of you to be sharing info nowā¦ā¦the initial market research, product comparisions, analysis of these and their details and the own initial design/proto-types and tests are the lesser problem. The distribution channels later are not a big of an issue either.
The branding, registration and marketing is also not a problem, at least not from my perspective or point.
Understanding the demand and needs, and wishes of customers/users is MOST crucial. Understanding the flaws of ācurrent offeringsā aswell!
And you being neck-deep in your target āmarketā should have no trouble in this! Youāve already cited the flaws of current offeringsā¦. not that youāre bashing them, mind!The BIGGEST problem is in the finding profit-able production-cost solutions IF the intent is to produce in higher numbers!!!
Iām sure the demand for this will be staggering, considering this is a niche marketā¦ I wonder who made this statement earlierā¦I find this to hold no water anywayā¦ I know from my limited time in the VP forums that serious simmers ā the obvious target for these products ā totally understand and are willing to work with people to supply this hobby with better, higher-quality components. These customers are willing to wait months if not years to get their hands on their new toy. These customers understand low production units, limited production runs, and longer-than-normal production times! So why worry about the āif the demand takes offā when you arenāt even offering anything yet? Itās like worrying about what Iāll do with my lottery winnings when Iām not even sure if Iāll buy a ticket this week.
That instance is mostly - if not always - underestimated by āgarage inventorsā and āLow cost FCC DIYĀ“ersā and it is, what drives the sales price at the end.
My problem is not, starting it (ie. making few units and selling them by order and gaining feedbacks and reviews ā¦or/and growing with the orders). My problem is, how to proceed, if shit gets real (if it really grows in numbers).
I have been in contact with two industrial designers and a friend, who already went through all this selling more than 4 million units of his own product. They were able to give me an insight into this area (cost analysis, sub-contractors, machines, molds, packaging, transport etc etc)ā¦ and you would be suprised, how expensive things can get. I can fully understand, why āMadCatzā (Saitek) i.e is made in foreign countries (Korea, Taiwan? i forgot) and why the design concept they used therefore. I also can respect (understand) the struggles thrustmaster faces(d).
Cool! However, have you asked the makers of FCC or FSSB as to what their total sales are to-date? I doubt itās anywhere near 4 million, so the challenges of your associates may not even be a factor for you.Nevertheless, most sticks on the market are litterally over-priced junk! and use really low quality components and internally hidden ācrap designā - people with smarts and honesty owing those agree with me (but most guys buy by the looks and dont dare to take a screw driver and look inside things anyways).
Maybe because they donāt have the skill or knowledge to tinker with anything? Nah! Letās go ahead and call those people shallow!The industry provides massive and better alternatives if it comes to components (i.e micro-switches, sensors, cables etc etc), but againā¦
But againā¦ nobody takes them up on it because development and production vs. expected ROI doesnāt make it worth itā¦ so all of this is a āwhat-if brain masturbation.āthe real challange is to create a product line from the ābathtub ideaā all the way to final distributionā¦ well planed and thought-through in all aspects.
Ofc, you can built one prototypeā¦ ābragā about the solution with pictures on forums. Many guys have done that, especially on russian forums ā¦ their DIYs are way more advanced what i have ever seen on english forums.
If it is only a hobby, then this act (sharing is caring) is a nobel act - although even those people found or met their personal ā-ICE-sā who just knew it all better and all feedback was critisism and provocations, lol.
Yeah, letās get all personal now, shall we? So much for not giving a shit to what I think, huh?But, if the intent is to commercialize those ideasā¦this kind of premature bragging would be litterally STUPID.
Hahahahahaā¦. which you just did, sans pictures and an actual prototype. See, if some Russian built a prototype, bragged about it, but ends up helping other people make their own by sharing knowledge and resources, that is something to be applauded. 1) He built a damn prototype and 2) heās helping others! When someone says āI can do betterā but has abso-****ing-lutely nothing to show for it aside from his words, does not share any knowledge or resources, and starts going on a tantrum, well, thatās a different story entirely.I guess the proof will be in the pudding, eh? Bottom line, I look forward to the day when you offer a better, more precise, higher quality force-sensing stick at a significantly lower price than current offerings. I totally donāt mind being wrong, and Iād love to be wrong on this oneā¦ but until then, well, I canāt quite remember who said this, but ātalk is cheap!ā
I wish you a very good day, sir!
- Nay sayers like you are usually the ones bragging later owning one of such devices, because they buy always the āstatus quo crapā. They have no other choice.
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I look forward to the day when you offer a better, more precise, higher quality force-sensing stick at a significantly lower price than current offerings. I totally donāt mind being wrong, and Iād love to be wrong on this oneā¦. but until then, well, I canāt quite remember who said this, but ātalk is cheap!ā
Now you said something āgoodā once in a while
Buddyā¦ this is not personal. I made my standpoint clear i think, which is not only my view anyways and which is exactly what you said
better, more precise, higher quality force-sensing stick at a significantly lower price than current offerings.
YES, i believe that this is very possible. Even MORE so than with mechanically moving sticks btw.
What do you want from me? Why do you even bother debating with me the way you do?
We are turning in circles here. What is your point?
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@A.S:
I never posted anything yet. The 1st post of this thread is NOT MY product. Just something ānewā i stumbled upon on the net.
I never said you didā¦. and I know the 1st post is not yours. DUH!! This conversation was simply a result of your claim in post #20 & #23 of this thread. I will be honest with you and tell you that those statements gave me two scenarios: 1) that a FCC/FSSB-type product could be produced for cheaper and/or 2) that a current FCC/FSSB could be made even better with improved electronics. Either way, a better product. You cannot blame me for being interested in either scenario, regardless of whether I currently own an FCC/FSSB. So I ask you a bunch of questions on post #27, but then you come back at me with a snarky āgoogle itā replyā¦ I have as much chance of success there as you have doing brain surgery tomorrow. Thatās not to say either of us is stupid, just that either topics are outside each oneās scope of knowledge. Itās like telling a newbie to RTFM without referencing page numbers or keywords.Now you said something good once in a while
And I sincerely, truly hope you prove me wrong, dude! I will be one of your first customers! Sooner would also be better rather than later Iāve tried an UberNXT2-modded Cougar, Iāve tried an FSSB-R1-modded Cougar, and still Iāve stuck to my WHā¦. maybe itāll be your implementation that will get me to replace my WH base! Who knows?! Canāt really tell until the product is available though!Buddyā¦ this is not personal. I dont have time for these kind of weddings. I dont even know you, nor do you know me.
What makes you think it is? You were the one that started it with the snarky replies, accusations of empty and un-constructive posts, being holier-than-thou, even using my name to signify a profoundly negative personā¦. which to be honest I did not expect from a long-time community member like yourself. Snarky replies, stereo-typing, and for some reason hating on the people who owns FCC-3s, yet you canāt even apologize after being shown how baseless your accusations were. All of that and you have the cheek to say āthis is not personalāā¦ sure, dude, sure.I dont know what you want from me? What do you want from me? Why do even bother arguing with me the way you do?
I made my standpoint clear i think. We are turning in circles here.
Just wanted infoā¦. like I said, you made the claim of knowing how to make a better productā¦ I think the mistake you made was bragging about it when you have nothing to show for it at this stage nor were you willing to share your knowledge with the community. Not cool at all. But yeah, you made your stance clear ā you do not have the time/resources/money/whatever to bring such a product to market yet you are not willing to share your knowledgeā¦ in a community where an excellent simulation mod is given for freeā¦ in a community built upon the āexperiencedā helping the ānewbiesāā¦ in a community where other hardware and software mod creators go above and beyond for the hobby. While you are totally within your rights to do this, well, like I said, not cool at all.The rest of my posts were just to expose the irony of the situations youāve put yourself in, the places where youāve put your foot in your mouth, the places where you shoot yourself in the footā¦ and to counter the rudeness in your posts.
Bottom line, as Red Dog said, this is all brain masturbation until you actually do what you speak of. The creators of the FCC and FSSB mods have their reasons for choosing the design and components that they have and so far there has been no outcry of inferior performance and they have their track record to back up their decisionsā¦. and until you have a product in the market which proves itself superior in build quality and reliability, well, as you yourself said, talk is cheap.
I hope that clears it up for you.
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Numerous posts deleted due to their non-constructive and rule-breaking nature.
I would suggest you calm down or face the consequences. -
Guys yeap itās pointless.
AS man u ask others for business u have no idea about itā¦ Well itās like going in a DF with radar off and HP off.
Yeap those force products are expensive. Guess what iPhones are way moreā¦ They cost less their half price but selling like crazy even if others are even better.
Have u thought of it for your business endeavors for building and selling like crazy?MilesD has a nice approach. He builds quitely, low prices for the poor us, very good quality, best support out there even when not his issue.
I can do those, I do those. End of story.Ī£ĻĪ¬Ī»ĪøĪ·ĪŗĪµ Ī±ĻĻ ĻĪæ MI 5 Ī¼ĪæĻ ĻĻĪ·ĻĪ¹Ī¼ĪæĻĪæĪ¹ĻĪ½ĻĪ±Ļ Tapatalk
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I think this topic has run itās course
there is nothing of value in here and if it continues iām afraid ppl will get banned.One last bit of advice to those willing to make better than whatās already available :
- youāre free to do it
- donāt spit on the opposition to make your project look better
- Rather bring your quality and proven facts to the front stage - if they are real, they should be enough to prove your point.
Till then, this is all vaporware