Israel 1980s - UOAF edition
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IAF was using the Flying Tigers Patch on the A-4M? Interesting
lol is one of his patches wrong?
Is it possible to double the inventory of a single squadron in BMS so that it can generate the same amount of missions as two squadrons while only representing a single squadron?
doubtful
If not, then giving one squadron F-15Cs and the other F-15As would probably be the most accurate solution. As it doesnāt seem to be possible to have squadrons operate mixtures of F-15C/Ds or F-15A/Bs, it would make sense to pick the most numerous version. Under Peace Fox III, the IDF received 18 F-15Cs and 8 F-15Ds, so going with the F-15C seems to make the most sense?
The way weāre doing it in the 82 camp for example, (if you check out the squadron spreadsheet Iāve linked), is to make three 133rd squadrons, all based at Tel Nof. One for A, one for C, one for D. In Mission commander we can tailor each squadron to have the correct amount of aircraft.
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lol is one of his patches wrong?
doubtful
This page also lists the Flying Tigers patch: http://www.cieldegloire.com/sq_iaf_102.php
So this the A-4 Skyhawk Association: http://a4skyhawk.info/article-unit/iaf-flying-tiger-squadronThe same patch is also found on page 71 of āIsraeli A-4 Skyhawk Units in Combatā so that pretty much confirms it if you ask me.
The way weāre doing it in the 82 camp for example, (if you check out the squadron spreadsheet Iāve linked), is to make three 133rd squadrons, all based at Tel Nof. One for A, one for C, one for D. In Mission commander we can tailor each squadron to have the correct amount of aircraft.
Do you also want to add a F-15B squadron? I know it gets messy but F-15Bs scored kills on 10 June and 11 June 1982 (2x MiG-25).
In fact all four F-15 A, B, C and D models scored kills against Syrian Air Force aircraft during combat over Lebanon. Note that all aircraft are listed as 133 Squadron. -
This page also lists the Flying Tigers patch: http://www.cieldegloire.com/sq_iaf_102.php
So this the A-4 Skyhawk Association: http://a4skyhawk.info/article-unit/iaf-flying-tiger-squadronThe same patch is also found on page 71 of āIsraeli A-4 Skyhawk Units in Combatā so that pretty much confirms it if you ask me.
Do you also want to add a F-15B squadron? I know it gets messy but F-15Bs scored kills on 10 June and 11 June 1982 (2x MiG-25).
In fact all four F-15 A, B, C and D models scored kills against Syrian Air Force aircraft during combat over Lebanon. Note that all aircraft are listed as 133 Squadron.As of now the number we have (and in your source as well) shows only 2 F-15B modelsā¦. so that is a bit small for its own squadron so we added that number to the F-15D squadron.
Now patches anyone?
- 69 - 102, - 103, - 106, - 113, - 114, - 116, - 118, - 120, - 123 , - 124, - 131, - 133, - 143, - 144, - 147, - 160, - 161, & - 190, - 192 - 254,
For patches well we pretty much had all of them already:
(note the 114th,116th,160th,161st, and the 192nd patches are flipped)
- 69 - 102, - 103, - 106, - 113, - 114, - 116, - 118, - 120, - 123 , - 124, - 131, - 133, - 143, - 144, - 147, - 160, - 161, & - 190, - 192 - 254,
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Does 134 Squadron even HAS a patch?
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Do you also want to add a F-15B squadron? I know it gets messy but F-15Bs scored kills on 10 June and 11 June 1982 (2x MiG-25).
In fact all four F-15 A, B, C and D models scored kills against Syrian Air Force aircraft during combat over Lebanon. Note that all aircraft are listed as 133 Squadron.a squadron of just 2 wonāt even work I imagine, as 2 are automatically kept in reserve for scrambling
Also my F-15 book shows Simon and Hodorov in Baz 704 killing 1xmig-21 that day. No MiG-25ās. You never know which source to believe sometimes! haha -
I think the MiG-25P kills were in 1981, not 1982. So that one website got the kills right, the aircraft type right but not the dates.
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Ah, I see. The book goes into some good detail (page 32 and 37) about the two Foxbat-E kills in '81 too. One was accomplished by the same pilot Shaul Simon, and both in single seaters. Think the guy who made that website got a bit confused haha.
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Our in-game OOB now matches very closely to the real thing.
http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/aa-mideast/israel/af/orbat4-10.htm
Squadrons, numbers of aircraft, and the correct bases. Pretty cool.
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Aeroflight is often a bit out of date, which isnāt too bad for this theater but my main go-to source for current ORBAT info is Scrambleās Orbat section:
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Nice. Thing is we found the Aeroflight page after everything was complete, all gathered from other sources, and what we had lined right up with their ORBAT.
Now if we could just get the AI to play out the war realisticallyā¦
For instance, in reality Israel never flew into Syrian airspace, or attacked airbases/military installations in Syria. But in BMS itās a free-for all. I guess the player can set the PAKs and conduct the war how he chooses.
Weāll at least get the ground forces pushing toward Beirut. -
Well thatās the drawback of a dynamic campaign engine. You can put all the chess pieces in the right spots but you donāt really know or control how the game will unfold.
In order to fully re-enact the 1982 conflict, a scripted approach (e.g. DCS) would work better or otherwise set-piece TEs. But as a campaign, youāll come to a point where you can put all the pieces in the right place and then let go and see what happens.
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Regarding fictional campaigns, have you considered a scenario that would see Iran join into the campaign against Israel, deploying their assets into Lebanon and Syria?
That would bring a lot of other interesting things into play ā¦ Not least of them Tomcats, F-5s, F-4s, Mirage F1s, etc.
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Yeah thatās a real interesting idea actually.
For the third campaign, This is what I was thinking:
In our alternate reality, the peace talks after the Yom Kippur war didnāt work out and Israel never withdrew from the Sinai. The Soviet Union continues to support Egypt.
Very soon after Israel obtains F-16ās in 1980, Egypt and Syria simultaneously surprise-attack Israel again. So youāve got two fronts: Egypt at the Suez canal and Syria pushing through the Golan heights. Basically the October War II with more modern weapons. Not sure about the feasibility of this in BMS, but weāll see. We need to learn alot about manipulating the trigger files first. -
I like the idea of throwing Iran into the mix. Just a whole coalition of Muslim countries trying to swallow Israel and youāve got to fend them all off.
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If that becomes too complicated, sticking to a battle against a Soviet backed Egypt (no Egyptian F-16ās/western weapons) with the FLOT at the Suez canal.
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Guys who have tried the theater, do you have reports on performance/FPS?
We tend to use lots of units.
This would definitely have to be scaled back in a two-front war. -
if i play Israel 1980s, i will add soviet to join the war
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Yeah thatās a real interesting idea actually.
For the third campaign, This is what I was thinking:
In our alternate reality, the peace talks after the Yom Kippur war didnāt work out and Israel never withdrew from the Sinai. The Soviet Union continues to support Egypt.
Very soon after Israel obtains F-16ās in 1980, Egypt and Syria simultaneously surprise-attack Israel again. So youāve got two fronts: Egypt at the Suez canal and Syria pushing through the Golan heights. Basically the October War II with more modern weapons. Not sure about the feasibility of this in BMS, but weāll see. We need to learn alot about manipulating the trigger files first.Great idea!
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Hey Gas, quick thought. Not sure how much you can do about cockpits and aircraft, but it seems to me that the Kfir being a Mirage variant would be more at home with the Mirage 2000 cockpit. Given that the hardpoints are as far as I can tell the same, that would make the over the shoulder glances feel less out of place when you fly it.
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Yeah good point Tirak, will try that out