BMS: graphic improvements are possible?
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@BenDean87:
I’d love to see VR in BMS… I hope it happens eventually. But I do find it perturbing how anti-VR the community seems to be in general though, with lots of people making declarative statements about how impossible it is to do things in VR that I happily do every day in DCS while in VR, I interact with my keyboard without removing my headset…
It is not impossible, but requires specific (costly) equipment. Considering that they are still a minority and the huge amount of effort, - better wait the technology stabilize to something really more efficient (resolutions for MFDs) - restrict to one or to solutions without spending time on already obsolete equipment, - waiting the technology to be a bit more mature and more democratized … and, still need the guy(s) who will be able to do it.
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VR possible now in BMS? How? Please instructions?
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We have 4 hour CAS flights sometimes no way I am putting a TV screen 3 inches from my face for 4 hours.
For arcadey dudes that dont fly alot seems ok but VR being standard is just because you like.
PIT BUILDERS will argue against that. Anyone with some real switches will argue against that.
The idea set up would be a projections dome but obviously that also cant be the standard.
So the standard will ALWAYS be a 2D monitor than next would be a 3D capabale monitor than projections screens than VR in that order. VR will always be the least favorable option just due to the ergonomics.
You can get some nice hand switches but really you are not gonnna want to put your head close to screen for long periods its not good for your health in anyway.
IF you dont give a shit about yourself by all means enjoy it.Still waiting for screen tech to get cheap enough they can make a massive dome screen that you encapsulated by. Better than a projector that will probably be the next step up rather than VR…its possible now just probably too expensive for the
monitor makers to get any profit out of building such a device due to it being a niche product. If the mainstream ever showed a possibility of wanting such a thing or monitor production got cheap enough they could make a profit out of it you would see that. -
FYI here is a poll result of 2018/07/14 and 2019/1/3 at Hoggit.
https://strawpoll.com/yafypxxg
https://imgur.com/a/ruANiVvbetter wait the technology stabilize to something really more efficient (resolutions for MFDs)
DCS seems slightly narrowing FOV for VR to make MFDs readable.
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Pit builders can stay with monitors or go projectors.
Dcs narrowing fov for mfd or in general for gfx performance?Στάλθηκε από το MI 5 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
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To put it bluntly
DCS VR visual acuity at distance is to put it bluntly shit.
Well known and verified with RL pilots who try VR in DCS.
Even if it was good… VR is only good for short sessions unless you like EYE CANCER.
I know its cool but once the cool factor wears out it quickly becomes shit. Cant see keyboard cant really build a pit etc… the BEST SOLUTION IMO is a 3D monitor that will give you depth perception rather than a ****ing TV On your face. -
When looking at distant objects in VR, Your eye focus will be just as same as looking at the same distant place in RL. You will even need eyeglasses if you have myopia. So don’t worry VR is not like “TV on your face”.
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When looking at distant objects in VR, Your eye focus will be just as same as looking at the same distant place in RL. You will even need eyeglasses if you have myopia. So don’t worry VR is not like “TV on your face”.
huhhhh?
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Far from being a standard yet IMO. If you make a poll among all BMS users, I don’t think more than about 10-15% are using VR.
You have also to consider that (with current resolutions) VR will be certainly barley usable on MFDs readings in BMS.
IHMO…
1. As long as we do not have a much better terrain engine with many real 3D object building the VR can act only in cockpit.
2. But you said cockpit is not enough detailed to be usable with VR it is simply not functional.
3. Many ppl. (for ex me) have dizziness and other symptoms with VR.
4. You need MUCH, MUCH more resource to run the game.1+2+3+4
Why would spend resources on this as long as the barely minimum requirements are not available for VR? Even it would de doable I guess most of players cannot afford such a strong HW + VR kit + VR glove to have all of them…
…and even they could afford what happens if they find out they also cannot use VR because of dizziness and other issues?
VR was promoted and expected as a widely used something but comparing to expectation of investors after years it is not as popular as dreamed. One of the major reason is lack the genres for the VR…
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huhhhh?
In the VR headsets there are lenses between the screen and your eyes. These lenses make it so that your eye is not focused on a distance of 5 cm, and instead focuses on “to infinity” (like when you look in outside your window on a distant mountain, or the horizon), to the point that a near-sighted person needs to keep their glasses on to see well in VR.
So all the people joking about going blind or nearsighted from looking for too long at a screen stuck in their face are wrong, or at least exaggerating greatly.About the problem of looking at the keyboard with the headset on: I don’t think the situation is so catastrophic… Certainly being able too directly see the keyboard (with trackIR) makes it easier to push the right key, but I believe that after a bit of getting used to touch-typing with the VR headset on people wouldn’t have great difficulties.
This is clearly different in the case of pit-builders, for which I guess sight is quite more important.On the other hand, the other concerns about VR like low resolution, powerful GPU needed, motion sickness, new models needed, cost of the headsets, and developer effort needed for the implementation are absolutely relevant, in my opinion.
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To put it bluntly
DCS VR visual acuity at distance is to put it bluntly shit.
Well known and verified with RL pilots who try VR in DCS.
Even if it was good… VR is only good for short sessions unless you like EYE CANCER.
I know its cool but once the cool factor wears out it quickly becomes shit. Cant see keyboard cant really build a pit etc… the BEST SOLUTION IMO is a 3D monitor that will give you depth perception rather than a ****ing TV On your face.Calm down, your bias is showing
I am an IRL pilot, and yes of course VR lacks clarity in regards to real life. But so does a screen. Whats your point? That’s why these sims have functions like zoom.
I don’t believe putting my face near a 10W OLED screen for a few hours a week is any more life threatening than lots of other hobbies that people engage in. OLEDs produce very low EM radiation and not a lot of heat either so I’m not exactly sure what you’re so worried about. Its not like i’m strapping an CRT to my face.As you see above in the DCS strawpoll out of aprox 1300 people, 28% fly using VR. This is a decent chunk of the playerbase now, and this number is only going to grow as VR tech gets better and the sims get more optimised to use it.
You can argue how shit VR is all you like, but the fact is that more and more people are using it for sims and the numbers reflect that.
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@BenDean87:
Calm down, your bias is showing ;)Whats your point? That’s why these sims have functions like zoom.
And we have Smart Scaling
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So all the people joking about going blind or nearsighted from looking for too long at a screen stuck in their face are wrong, or at least exaggerating greatly.
Well maybe not exactly.
The physical distance is less than 5cm… so it’s kinda like the 3D in cinema and the glasses.
You trick your mind and you use crazy rates for your eyes and mind.
But the eye focuses there.So if you think all are ok with vr and it’s like real in regard of eye - mind health well you should reconsider.
if that was so there wouldn’t be the motion sickness that ppl experience. If you have vr take a 4-8 hour continues use, don’t stop even for toilet, or if so make it quick.
Just consider your situation eyes - orientation - space perception wise after those 4-8 hours.
I don’t think you can compare it with a 4-8 hours driving your car or taking a flight without a vr headset. -
Well maybe not exactly.
The physical distance is less than 5cm… so it’s kinda like the 3D in cinema and the glasses.
You trick your mind and you use crazy rates for your eyes and mind.
But the eye focuses there.So if you think all are ok with vr and it’s like real in regard of eye - mind health well you should reconsider.
if that was so there wouldn’t be the motion sickness that ppl experience. If you have vr take a 4-8 hour continues use, don’t stop even for toilet, or if so make it quick.
Just consider your situation eyes - orientation - space perception wise after those 4-8 hours.
I don’t think you can compare it with a 4-8 hours driving your car or taking a flight without a vr headset.The eye does not focus at 5cm. The fresnel lenses mean that the according to your eyes the screen is at infinity, people who are short sighted need to use their glasses as their eyes cant focus that far out. Long sighted people who need glasses for viewing things close-up can use VR without them as the screen is in the distance as far as your eyes are concerned.
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Well maybe not exactly.
The physical distance is less than 5cm… so it’s kinda like the 3D in cinema and the glasses.
Don’t you have DSLR camera or binoculars?
Their finders scope physical distance is less than 1cm.
How about a sniper peeking into the scope waiting for a target for a day.
Should they consider their eye health? -
Don’t you have DSLR camera or binoculars?
Their finders scope physical distance is less than 1cm.
How about a sniper peeking into the scope waiting for a target for a day.
Should they consider their eye health?yeap they should
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Flying in VR is truly an experience worth trying. There are no words that can describe the difference it makes.
Forget 3d monitors/tvs or the effects of 3d cinema.
I’ll admit. I was skeptical too. I saw someones phone using cardboard and wasnt really impressed.
I had it down as a gimmick. Then I tired F18 DCS in VR with the HTC Vive.Everything changed. I have my mouse close to hand and can operate the cockpit no problem. Most functions are on the HOTAS anyway.
BenDean is right. Your eyes dont focus tightly at the lens so close to the face. Motion sickness are for those who struggle with the difference between being stationary in the real world - but yet are twisitng and turning around in a jet in the virtual.
The mind (and your stomach) takes a few “phantom” twitches here and there that you soon get used to.(worst one was minecraft -falling off a cliff and at the point of impact i would feel a jolt of energy shoot up my legs. My brain had trouble letting that one go for a while!! lol. Gone now)
There are always going to be people who are skeptical and even those that hate on it because of jealousy and or pride. Change takes time.
With new hardware (graphic cards and headsets) it will only get better.But I cant emphasis it enough. It really is the future.
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Considering the price of their efforts to keep Falcon still a free sim
I’d pay to have BMS VR compatible. Actually I’d pay for BMS as is. 4.33/4.34 are just… masterpieces.
After reading the entire post, I have to say both sides (VR vs TrackIR) have their merits. TrackIR is cheaper, serves the purpose of adding Situational Awareness, and the size and fidelity of the image is limited only by the monitor (and to some extent the GFX card). Those who have spent time and money on simpits with switches and MFDs has my respect. On the other side there are the VR enthusiast who spend money on 2080ti’s and Valve Index (HP Reverb or Oculus S, etc) they also have my respect because their contribution directly encourages the companies to build better and cheaper VR solutions. I have a VIVE and DCS dogfighting is a love-hate where it’s fantastic to know exactly where you are looking in relation to the nose of the aircraft but the resolution makes spotting/ID bit more difficult. VR FOV is compatible to a 28in monitor at 50 cm away so I think it’s just preference there. So right now it’s a trade off between true 1-1 head tracking, depth perception and resolution. The resolution part will improve as machines become more powerful.
So in conclusion, in my opinion TrackIR should NEVER be compared to VR. They are two very different beasts from two different eras. Instead, VR should be compared to full-on pits with clickable buttons/switches/knobs, fully working HUD and a dome projection system/multi-monitor setup. I’ll leave the hydraulics out because both sides can benefit from hydraulics. Such a pit will run up to the $tens of thousands which is comparable to what you’ll need to spend for a good VR experience (anyone heard of Varjo VR-1?) so comparing custom-built pits to a VIVE (or even HP Reverb) and then say VR is kaput is like racing a Tesla S P100D with a Vespa. You should really race the performance electric car with a performance electric motorcycle.
And LOL to those who said they tried VR a bit and it made them sick. I felt the same in the first go. Anyone who went up with a real jet would tell you their first experience was a lot of nausea and puking. Immersion.
P.S. Fresnel lens are specially designed optics to make a screen you strapped to your face appear to have infinite depth. Your eyes will focus to infinity, and beyond.
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I’d pay to have BMS VR compatible. Actually I’d pay for BMS as is. 4.33/4.34 are just… masterpieces.
But you can’t and it never will be payware. VR will come to BMS when the majority of BMS users want it. The technology needs to mature more IMO, its still in early stages yet. 3-4 weeks I’d say.:D
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I am confused now. This thread only talk about VR, but VR not yet possible in BMS, correct?
If VR now possible in BMS, how? I have Vive and want to try!
If only talk about VR, then ok.