Libya at Dawn
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Wellā¦ if my advise counts anything, Iām impressed and in a very good sense!
Congratulations, also because itās an actual matter. Also the choice of the theater seems wise to me, EMF has great potential for me too.
Also about the contribution of Italian Air Force in this scenery, you made a wise choice, also because you probably knew that our 6th Stormo ECRs were employed thereā¦
Just a pair of observations: it is instead easy to combine the differences between the -B version and the -C version, but substantially and functionally they are the same both.
If I am not mistaken, the latter is the version with the reduced rear ailerons, adapted in size to make it fit into the bombay of the F-22.
And about the Canadian Hornets, it might be a very long trip from their basesā¦ everything is possible, of course, in a simulation, but how would you politically justify the intervention of the Canadian air forces there?So, less chatting here: Iām volunteering to give a little help, if youād like to of course.
After, when do you let us taste this TE of yours? Failure or not.With best regards.
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Wellā¦ if my advise counts anything, Iām impressed and in a very good sense!
Congratulations, also because itās an actual matter. Also the choice of the theater seems wise to me, EMF has great potential for me too.
Also about the contribution of Italian Air Force in this scenery, you made a wise choice, also because you probably knew that our 6th Stormo ECRs were employed thereā¦
Just a pair of observations: it is instead easy to combine the differences between the -B version and the -C version, but substantially and functionally they are the same both.
If I am not mistaken, the latter is the version with the reduced rear ailerons, adapted in size to make it fit into the bombay of the F-22.
And about the Canadian Hornets, it might be a very long trip from their basesā¦ everything is possible, of course, in a simulation, but how would you politically justify the intervention of the Canadian air forces there?So, less chatting here: Iām volunteering to give a little help, if youād like to of course.
After, when do you let us taste this TE of yours? Failure or not.With best regards.
Thanks for your input Jackal.
Copy that or the fin difference between the C and B model, i will look harder but still i find it difficult depending on how the picture is taken to actually see those fin size differences.
For the Canadian Hornets, in real life they actually were deployed for operation Odissey Dawn and then also when NATO took over and called it Unified Protector. They were forward deployed on the italian air base called Trapani.
For now planning a TE in details and providing documentation for it, i try to keep politics out of it, to answer your question i simply would say that the CF-188ās are deployed because Canada is part of NATO.
For the public release of the TE i still have to fly it out and test it and write down the documentation. My plan is to make it a story and immersive for the users. No ETA for now but you will be able to follow my progress in this thread.
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Some screenshots taken for the first mission of the TE:
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Hello Canuck, nice post and work, I would be glad to assist you, time permittingā¦
I would also propose you to contact Mystic and Apollo for questions / helping with the Campaign small details, and JanHas for questions regarding MLU Vipers loadoutsā¦
The Belgian operation under Odissey Dawn was called Operation Freedom Falcon, which saw F-16ās initially deployed to Araxos Air base for an exercise being re-deployed to Souda Airbase for the beginning of Operation Freedom Falcon.
I happen to be a couple of (operational) days next to the Belgian team at Araxos AFB and have quite some photos from both there and Soudaā¦
As can be seen here, it is sometimes hard to figure out which one it is between the B and C
The particular on the 1st photo is a -120C.
The only thing i regret with the weapons in BMS, is the fact that you can not select different skin sets for the weapon. I think that amongst NATO nations there are 2 or 3 different skins sets possible for bombs. It would also make possible instead of having a new DB entry to simply change the skin. I know this is for visual satisfaction, but it counts a lot in the sim world and for immersion.
Iāve heard that this is now possible; - didnāt had time last months to check actuallyā¦
Yes in the past we modified the DB adding a new; / duplicate version of the weapon, just to support the different paint camo. E.g. the GBU-10/12, the olive/green skin is supposed to be made by Raitheon, the gray skin made by Lockheed Martin; so in Ikaros we added the gray version too to simulate IAF having the gray version too on the weapon loadsā¦
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Nice post Canuck. Currently i am on vacations. Iāll comment tomorrow. Btw, I have changed the loadout of BAF and RDAF F16 for EMF v1.0.4
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Hello Canuck, nice post and work, I would be glad to assist you, time permittingā¦
I would also propose you to contact Mystic and Apollo for questions / helping with the Campaign small details, and JanHas for questions regarding MLU Vipers loadoutsā¦
I happen to be a couple of (operational) days next to the Belgian team at Araxos AFB and have quite some photos from both there and Soudaā¦
The particular on the 1st photo is a -120C.
Iāve heard that this is now possible; - didnāt had time last months to check actuallyā¦
Yes in the past we modified the DB adding a new; / duplicate version of the weapon, just to support the different paint camo. E.g. the GBU-10/12, the olive/green skin is supposed to be made by Raitheon, the gray skin made by Lockheed Martin; so in Ikaros we added the gray version too to simulate IAF having the gray version too on the weapon loadsā¦
Thanks for your input Raptor. I will contact the people you mentionned when i will be ready for a campaign, eventually i will get there :).
Hmmm, those pictures i wish i could see them, knowing your taste for quality pictures, i imagine that you have some pretty awesome shots.
Can you point me in the direction for the skin sets for the weapons ? i will also cross check with Jan for the MLU vipers.
Thanks a bunch Raptor.
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Nice post Canuck. Currently i am on vacations. Iāll comment tomorrow. Btw, I have changed the loadout of BAF and RDAF F16 for EMF v1.0.4
Enjoy your vacations Mystic_J, thanks for taking into account our inputs regarding the BAF and RDAF. Excited about EMF v1.0.4
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Nice job, really intriguing!
I remember the Canadian Hornets in Trapani AB, during that Operation, and their tanker too.
Looking forward to read your developments
cheers -
For the Canadian Hornets, in real life they actually were deployed for operation Odissey Dawn and then also when NATO took over and called it Unified Protector. They were forward deployed on the italian air base called Trapani.
Right, how could I forget that! You had to know that because of your job (NOTAMs, I guess). So thanks a lot.
@Canuck:For now planning a TE in details and providing documentation for it, i try to keep politics out of it, to answer your question i simply would say that the CF-188ās are deployed because Canada is part of NATO.
Well, please let me disagree a little about this choice, for professional reasons too. I believe that, as it is in real life, we would better to consider political choices when making a TE or a campaign, most of all because tactical choices and ROEs (to say the first ones coming to my mind) in missions and campaigns are originated from the strategic (so, political) directives. My own thoughts, driven straight from my real life job experience.
@Canuck:For the public release of the TE i still have to fly it out and test it and write down the documentation. My plan is to make it a story and immersive for the users. No ETA for now but you will be able to follow my progress in this thread.
And I will be only glad to help, then. Just at this purpose, Iād be glad if you could give a look to this, inspired from your initiative and wise thoughts: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SzEpG3RYsrERE6kYeFSo6u1ReTj5cZ5E.
I have tested it a little, and at a first glance it could work. Its story began from the UNO resolution to make the civil insurgent war to cease immediately for peopleās health sake, and this combined surgical strike was the first move. Please feel free to use it and tell me what do you think.
At this point, I would like to be allowed to publicly thank Mystic for having released such a beautiful, and above all very current, theater.
In fact, according to the most reliable geopolitical studies, in the Middle East area at least three of the next conflicts of world relevance could take place (without then talking about the conflicts of asymmetric war, worrying development now underway): Libya, Israel-Lebanon-Syria, Iran-Iraq. Without then talking about the possible interactions between these three scenarios, of course.
(If I only would be able to paint correctly those blessed areas in the mission builder team utility! Bah. Letās wait for the update )With best regards to all.
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Part 2
creating the sortie:
This was i think one of the hardest part of creating a TE, the purposes of the mission and why attacking that particular target. I am going to try to explain the choice i made for the first TE sortie, i havenāt decided if for each mission i will create a new TE or if i will make it into a mini campaign lasting for 20 days, and the player can carry on from where he left,tat option is the one that seduces me the most.
Inspiring myself from all the various books i did read i did understand that the first thing you actually want is being able to have air supremacy and that goes by eliminating the threat that is passive and active. I call a passive threat ( i am developing my own language here, sorry.) search radars and other means of tracking airplanes. From the researches i made and based on my own knowledge, i also know that it is not because something hasnāt been threatening you that it is not a threat. For example on airports and control centers for ATC, you have secondary surveillance radars and primary surveillance radars, and depending on the country you also have ADS-B. In wartime you are going to turn off your transponder on your airplane, but still due to human error and it did happen you can be tracked by civilian software if you forgot to flip a switch. Also any kind of radar or detection system poses a threat and also by destroying it you disrupt what is going on on the red side. I took a look at the Libyan map we have in EMF, and i saw that there was an airfield and close to that airfield there was an early warning and search radar. I looked at how his scan area was covering the coast and inland, i also saw that if you destroy the radar at the station, there is going to be a gap, there is a huge area with no overlap from other search radars. It would punch a hole into the early detection capacity of the enemy and allow NATO planes to approach from there undetected, well at least it would help. From what i have read and understood, a package doesnāt have to target the same target, you can have a package being composed of flights attacking different targets in the same area. I think that this is especially true when you have airplanes that are multi-role. The early warning and airfield being close-by, i did build a package that was going to have one flight targeting the early warning radar and another targeting infrastructures at the airport. In the package i did add a SEAD flight which will be lurking around the area and search for anything emitting and targeting NATO planes. Also, i added an ECM flight.
Composition of my first package and why those planes and the support planes and other assets involved
If there is no support in the form of AWACS, Tankers, J-STARS, ECM flights, there is no strike package. At least this is how i like to have it, sometimes all the assets are not available but you have some kind of support helping you get into the target area and come out. my first question was where do i place those support squadrons ? and why there and not somewhere else ? again, a lot of reading and understanding i had to do. First i took a look at the airbases available and the limitations i have in BMS. In BMS i donāt have the map of the whole world available, only one part, this is my first BMS reality (remember ? reality not limitation), just making sure you follow :blowpar:
I took a look at the following airbases:AKTIO AB (Greece) which as a NATO detachment for E-3ās, also a civilian airport.
SOUDA AB (Greece) which has a military side and a civilian side. Has a strategic position, has the extra advantage to have a NATO naval base nearby,it also has a SA-20 unit and a Patriot unit. Parallel runways, but no ILS. (for tankers and large airplanes, i think ILS is preferable, or they can use RNAV, no idea if KC-135/ KC-10 and E-3 are RNAV approved)
AKROTIRI AB (Cyprus) RAF base and has a very strategic position in regards to the middle east and North Africa.
Paphos AB (Cyprus) close to Akrotiri AB and has SA-15 and SA-17 SAMS defending the area. Good for assets based at Akrotiri.
Elefsina (Greece) since i want to involve the HAF EMB-145H AEW&C.
I looked at the infrastructure in place, those are large airplanes, you need large parking areas and space to store the support equipment for those airplanes. I looked at the runway lengths, short runways wonāt do and even if long they have to be long because in case of emergency they need to be able to land and stop, consider brake failures, flap failures which increase considerably your landing distance. And you can not place all the assets at the same airbase, and you can also consider the weather throughout the year at the airbase. Greece and the whole area on the EMF theater has coastline, depending on your runway direction, you will either have strong headwinds/tailwinds or crosswinds on takeoff/landing. I also took into consideration if the airbase is actually used to have NATO airplanes being deployed there.
E-3:
I decided to put an E-3 detachment at Akrotiri Ab instead of leaving them at Aktio. The RAF has an E-3 detachment there too, regarding logistics and support (even if the versions are not the same) it wonāt matter and the airbase is used to handle such airplanes. On top of that, Akrotiri has an U-2 detachment from the USAF, which for me is a big plus. In the back of my mind i was thinking that the biggest issue in life is communication. For information sharing it would be great and since Recon mission are a big part of the campaign i think it is a good idea to have them both on the same base. (sorry if i go too far for you, but i like it that way).E-8 and RC-135W:
I elected Aktio AB/Preveza Airport to be ideal for those two assets. Military and civilian side, long runway and based far away from any threat and at the same time not too far away from the theater of operations. Araxos and Andravida being close by.
KC-135 , KC-10:
I chose to base them at Kalamata airport which also has a military side. The runway is very long and there are large parking areas for the Tankers to be parked there. Not very far away from the theater of operation, which is a must since it will require less fuel to go to the orbit area and come back. More fuel for the different assets.
Fighters and other support assets:
F-15ās, F-16ās, CF-188ās and other fighters are mainly based at Souda airbase. Souda is close to the Libyan coast and is ideal for tactical planes,the transit time wonāt be too long from Souda to the tanker and from the tanker to the operating area. There is a NATO naval base not too far away allowing for logistical support.
where to place the different support airplanes :
With no military background and no tactical notion whatsoever this was a big bump on the road for me. I had to take a sheet of paper and make drawings. First i had to figure out at what maximum range an E-3 can be from the area of concern without being ineffective. From public sources i did find that 300NM is the maximum range at which the E-3 can detect aircraft. This is a maximum range, it doesnāt say if at 300NM it can detect low flying airplanes, i donāt have enough knowledge on the systems and i imagine the the real data is kept secret. I took the ruler tool on the UI map and measured the distance from an island south of Creta and figured that if i put my E-3 on a 50 NM track (North to South), my E-3 would cover the whole area from Benghazi to the Egyptian border and beyond. It also covers the No-Fly zone i established,(will talk about it later on).
Also where i placed the E-3, he is in the cover from the Patriot unit and the SA-20 unit. I also placed a frigate with RIM-66/SM-2MR missiles. Giving an additional cover for my AWACS. This took away the need for a dedicated HAVCAP, on top of that the E-3 is in close range of Souda AB where fighters can be scrambled if the need ever arises. Win win situation.E-8 and RC-135W have a detection and āsniffingā range of approximately 150 NM, this is the best i could find. So i placed those assets so that the 50 NM pattern they are flying places them not closer than 100 NM at anyone time during the orbit. At the beginning and end of the orbit i placed a Frigate with RIM-66/SM-2MR missiles. The SAM coverage of the two boats overlap each other over the orbit track of the E-8 and RC-135W.
Will continue writing later on.
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Right, how could I forget that! You had to know that because of your job (NOTAMs, I guess). So thanks a lot.
Well, please let me disagree a little about this choice, for professional reasons too. I believe that, as it is in real life, we would better to consider political choices when making a TE or a campaign, most of all because tactical choices and ROEs (to say the first ones coming to my mind) in missions and campaigns are originated from the strategic (so, political) directives. My own thoughts, driven straight from my real life job experience.
And I will be only glad to help, then. Just at this purpose, Iād be glad if you could give a look to this, inspired from your initiative and wise thoughts: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SzEpG3RYsrERE6kYeFSo6u1ReTj5cZ5E.
I have tested it a little, and at a first glance it could work. Its story began from the UNO resolution to make the civil insurgent war to cease immediately for peopleās health sake, and this combined surgical strike was the first move. Please feel free to use it and tell me what do you think.
At this point, I would like to be allowed to publicly thank Mystic for having released such a beautiful, and above all very current, theater.
In fact, according to the most reliable geopolitical studies, in the Middle East area at least three of the next conflicts of world relevance could take place (without then talking about the conflicts of asymmetric war, worrying development now underway): Libya, Israel-Lebanon-Syria, Iran-Iraq. Without then talking about the possible interactions between these three scenarios, of course.
(If I only would be able to paint correctly those blessed areas in the mission builder team utility! Bah. Letās wait for the update )With best regards to all.
Hi Jackal,
I only fly in western Africa, never flown in Europe before. Although the Tripoli FIR still has NOTAMS telling us that it is unsafe.
For the political side, i get what you are saying, of course there will be a bit of āpoliticsā involved in regards to establishing ROE which are specific to each country without being less than the NATO ones. But going into politics as why Canada was involved and not another country is really not a direction i want to take and on top of that i donāt have the time or the patience to actually sit down and think about such things. I will keep it simple such as when Air Forces participate in an exercise such as Frisian Flag or Red Flag. The political aspect is limited to a background story to give you a sense of involvement. Even if i wanted to discuss the intervention under operation Mobile of Canada in Libya, the forum rules do not allow me to do it. I hope this answers your question regarding the politics.
I will take a look at your TE and give you my honest opinion about it, i am very flattered that you actually ask me, i appreciate the consideration you have.
Take care Jackal.
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My pleasure, Canuck.
And please donāt focus too much about that example I made, it only wasā¦ an example, you know.
Keep on the way youāre going, your plan sounds well conceived and far more than interesting.
On my own, I would be only glad to helpā¦ if so, call me anytime, Iāll be here.
And please be good with me and my ideas when having a look to that TE of mineā¦ Iām thinking about the second sortie, after this first. [emoji16]
Just wondering if radar have an effective impact on missionsā action, so if would it be worth to take good care of striking themā¦ but this is another matter, I guess.With best regards.
Inviato dal mio CAM-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
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Lurking around for trouble:
Labraq Ab Libya, nice to see the work done by the EMF team and noticing the attention to details. Way to go guys.
Christmas time, gifts are inbound, GBU-39 is clearly a game changer and opens the door to DEAD missions. Developping new tactics and taking advantage of the long range detection of the SNIPER pod and the big WEZ of the GBU-39 is a real game changer for the MLU. But, ROE can negate such an advantage. The GBU-54 is the ultimate weapon since until the end you can control where the bomb is going to hit.
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Hi guys, after some further testing tonight, i figured out something very interesting.
I flew a TE mission under operation Libya at dawn and the target was Labraq AB. (this i think is going to be a TE that the BMS community will enjoy , i am very proud of the challenge it poses)
I wanted to see if 4.34 (if it was already the case in 4.32 and 4.33, i apologize ) when you target key infrastrures that are critical to sustain flying operations, if the airbase is still being declared as being operational or not.I did target all the fuel tanks at the airbase and did not target the runway or taxiways. The result was that in the debrief when clicking on the Labraq AB in the UI, Labraq was stated as being 0% operational. I was positively surprised and this is going to make the TE documentation even more fun to write.
I found an answer to one of my many questions:
I realised that in BMS 4.34, the best combat management you will have over AI is when you are in a two ship. When you are the leader of a 4 ship, it gets very hard to make the second element of your flight efficient. I tested the mission as the lead of 4 x F-16 MLU from the BAC ( Belgian Air Component). When i command my number 2 to attack a target, he will use 1 weapon for one target. Which allowed me to assign 5 targets to my number 2. I then went on and assigned one fuel tank as a target to my element flight. In BMS you still canāt give direct orders to number 4, you will have to go trough number 3 and AI logic will kick in. But when you assign one ground target to your element, they both will use all the weapons they have for an overkill. In my case they used 8xGBU-39 and 2xGBU-54 to destroy a fuel tank. The same type of target when assigned to number 2 he only used one weapon, 1xGBU-39. When you fly in Single Player and want the most out of your AI, fly with one AI. This is especially true for A-G missions. It will get very frustrating in Air-Air missions where your number 3 and 4 will use an excessive amount of missiles to kill.
There is one big issue tough i actually encountered:
When you target an airplane on the taxiway while he is taxiing or holding short, the airplanes behind him will taxi trough him and use the taxiway as if there was nothing. I think this is because the hitbox is on the plane only and even if the plane is on the taxiway, the bomb only scores a hit on the taxiway. Which is odd because when you target any kind of infrastructure, you also either damage or destroy nearby objects. Now i have to test if hitting the taxiway instead of the plane will actually stop the other planes from taxiing. But i have to hit the taxiway far enough from the plane that is taxxing else i am going to trigget the plane hitbox instead of the taxiway hitbox.
Is there a way in BMS to have combined damage effect for objects of two different categories ?
NB: a video is inbound, the video is a test sortie i did in single player targeting Labraq AB.
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soā¦ destroy fuel tanks and the airbase wonāt back to operational forever?
got to test it in campaignā¦ if yes then we donāt have to strike runways periodically. -
soā¦ destroy fuel tanks and the airbase wonāt back to operational forever?
got to test it in campaignā¦ if yes then we donāt have to strike runways periodically.I havenāt tried to put a mech bataillon and see if they will repair the airbase. But yes, it shows as 0% operational with all the runways and taxiways still functional. It would be much easier now to put an airbase on its knees. The nice little touch is that when you target fuel tanks, there are secondary explosions, after a while.
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TEST MISSION
This is a test mission for the TE Libya at Dawn. SO that you can understand the video here are some key elements:
I jumped into the cockpit when the airplanes were already flying towards the Libyan coast, this is why you see me setting up everything at the beginning of the video.This is a 4 ship F-16 MLU flight from the BAC (Belgian Air Component). Each airplane carries 1xGBU-54, 4xGBU-39, 2xAIM-120C, 2xAIM-9M, 1xALQ-131 and two fuel tanks of 370 GAL each.
SITAC and THREATS
Labraq AB is on the north-eastern coast of Libya and is situated in the No-Fly-Zone. The area is heavily defended by AAA and SHORADās (Short Range Air Defense) and MANPADās. The following equipment has been observed in the area and is known to be operational at the time your mission is to be carried out, as follows:
SA-15
SA-13
ZSU-23-4
SA-7Numbers are unknown but we know that each city and military target has an air defense unit. Labraq AB is home to a MIG-23 and G-4 squadron. We have not observed any air activity for the time of the mission but satellite images show evidence of aerial activity in the past days. The eastern part of the coast is defended by strategic SAM systems. We gathered intel about at least 3 SA-5 units to the east defending headquarters and airbases.
There is no Tanker support available for this mission and there is no AWACS support yet, the AWACS had a technical malfunction and will reach the area of operation later than expected. We have no ISR assets in place as for now since they rely on AWACS for monitoring. The L-16 network has not been set-up yet, the only form of support you have is the SA-10 unit based at Souda AB. The Greek Air Force is providing support with its EMB-145H AEW&C, but due to heavy thunderstorms over his airbase it will be delayed too.
We need eyes on Labraq AB and we need to enforce the No-fly-zone.
MISSION
In order to enforce the NO-Fly-Zone, we need Labraq AB to be 0% operational without targeting the runways. Labraq AB will be subsequently used for special forces. The fuel tanks at Labraq AB represent a significant target in order to achieve the objective. Infrastructure such as Tower, runway, taxiways or electrical supply is not to be targeted. On the south-eastern side of the airfield is a fuel storage tank near a hangar, it is acceptable if the hangar gets damaged or destroyed following the destruction of the fuel storage tank.
The airbase is defended by SHORADās, rendering them ineffective will also indirectly contribute to the operational status of the airbase.
The air threat is coming from the resident MIG-23 squadron. If any air activity is observed while being on scene, since Labraq is in the hearth of the No-fly-zone you are free to engage any kind of air activity.
Avoid civilian causalities.
NB: this is simply an appetizer of how the TE will be documented for each mission.
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i test this ādestroy fuel tanks to disable an airbase foreverā finding in kurile campaign.
i destroy all fuel tanks, but friendly ac destroy all runway sections at the same time. so i wait the airbase repairing for a while - the result is, all runway sections repaired, but the airbase remains 0% operatonal, and no ac flight generated.
only one airbase testā¦ but this trick is quite promisingā¦make life much easier.
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Sorry for not updating the thread, i am away for exams and simulator training in the UK.
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