Ancient flyer back to noob status (again) - Warthog set-up questions for BMS 4.35
-
I’m using the grey slider on the warthog TQS for tgp zoom, works quite nicely.
All the best,
UweThat’s what I do also. BigFish, you may think Alternative Launcher adds complexity but in reality is has the opposite effect, plus it gives you shortcuts in one place for many of the important BMS add-on apps. You will need to set up each switch\button\hat BUT that also means you can do what makes sense for you rather than someone else, and it really could not be easier to do. It also gives you a very simple way (RELEASE function) to make ALL your Warthog switches have every position seen (so does BMS internally but its a bit more tedious). As has been said, you don’t need to load any “drivers”, and I only use the the TARGET GUI program to dim the LEDs on the throttle. The TARGET Script Editor is quite powerful on it’s own but also requires more time to learn than I have to bother with so I use\modify other people’s work. I do not use (or need) it in BMS, but for other sims (IL2\DCS) that can see DX33-128 a profile I have gives me a one-click solution for TARGET to load a profile that DOES give EVERY switch\hat position a DX# so for the other sims it is fantastic… Click it off, BMS/AL are back to normal… What Stick are you using, original cougar or did you buy the Warthog HOTAS set?
-
Hello Icer and thanks for the encouragement re Alternative Launcher. I’ll certainly look into it. I thought I’d get up and running with the BMS basic Warthog file before I start fiddling about, but I take your point about always wanting something a bit different.
Well I have just bought both the Warthog Stick and Throttle. My Cougar radar slew controls packed up a couple of years ago and I just missed the last of Reddog’s replacement pots, and I never got an alternative organised. In any case I now realise as soon as I waggled the Warthog stick that the feel is infinitely better than my Cougar with U2nxt hall sensor conversion, which is horribly floppy and imprecise. The Warthog’s got too much deflection for an F-16 stick of course - well, it deflects, which is too much! - but I expect something can be done with calibration. I don’t think I want to get into a force-sensor base just yet. I see by the way in another thread there’s already an after-market replacement for the Warthog’s radar cursor hat!
Hoover, thanks for the tip regarding use of the throttle slider control.
Alan -
Hello Icer and thanks for the encouragement re Alternative Launcher. I’ll certainly look into it. I thought I’d get up and running with the BMS basic Warthog file before I start fiddling about, but I take your point about always wanting something a bit different.
Well I have just bought both the Warthog Stick and Throttle. My Cougar radar slew controls packed up a couple of years ago and I just missed the last of Reddog’s replacement pots, and I never got an alternative organised. In any case I now realise as soon as I waggled the Warthog stick that the feel is infinitely better than my Cougar with U2nxt hall sensor conversion, which is horribly floppy and imprecise. The Warthog’s got too much deflection for an F-16 stick of course - well, it deflects, which is too much! - but I expect something can be done with calibration. I don’t think I want to get into a force-sensor base just yet. I see by the way in another thread there’s already an after-market replacement for the Warthog’s radar cursor hat!
Hoover, thanks for the tip regarding use of the throttle slider control.
AlanHappy to help make the curve a little smaller! I have the Deltasims cursor hat mod, hated the OEM setup from Day 1, actually was using one of my hats to control it until I got it replaced. I tried a buddy’s force sensing base, did not really like it and as I fly WWII planes also it just made no sense. I did not like the feel of the stock Warthog stick base either. Mine wasn’t really sticky/notchy but it just did not feel good and was quite a workout after flying for a couple hours. Rather than invest in a lighter spring I went for the VirPil stick base (Warthog F16 stick attaches directly) and the build quality and feel are exponentially better than TM OEM… You simply set it up with the TM PID\VID identifiers and your Win10 system (and TARGET software) sees it as a stock Warthog. I should warn you, IF you go to Alt Launcher it replaces\backs up (and requires) the BMS-Full.key file so if you are using something different you will lose your programming. Of course if you simply write down the keystrokes you use for each switch\hat\button it will take you about 5 minutes max to re-set it up in AL. I have the same as you PLUS 56 MFD buttons\rockers and 32 ICP buttons and I can do my whole setup in 10 minutes!
-
Icer, thanks for that advice and at this rate I’ll be modding the Warthog before I’ve even plugged it in! I’ll check out the Deltasims cursor hat replacement and the VirPil base.
Apart from this thread being so helpful to me personally, I like to think it’s another small part of the many resources which are available through this fantastically helpful forum with so many helpful contributors - such a contrast with some of the forums for other flight simulators!
Alan -
Icer, thanks for that advice and at this rate I’ll be modding the Warthog before I’ve even plugged it in! I’ll check out the Deltasims cursor hat replacement and the VirPil base.
Apart from this thread being so helpful to me personally, I like to think it’s another small part of the many resources which are available through this fantastically helpful forum with so many helpful contributors - such a contrast with some of the forums for other flight simulators!
AlanLet me know if you need any help, happy to connect for a multiplayer “familiarization” session, you are only 1 hour off my time zone.
-
Hi Icer, fantastic! Well I’ve just ordered the radar slew ‘upgrade’ from DeltaSim having watched a really good video by some Australian chap on how to instal it, looks pretty foolproof! The general build quality of the Warthog throttle is massively better than my Cougar throttle, and I’m really surprised they put in such a dumb piece of equipment for the radar slew control. But there we are. Good luck to the DeltaSim guy who clearly knows what he is doing and has made a nice little business from the opportunity.
I’ve reviewed the Virpil mods, I assume I need the VPC WarBRD Base? It looks like an impressive piece of engineering.
Alan
-
Hi Icer, fantastic! Well I’ve just ordered the radar slew ‘upgrade’ from DeltaSim having watched a really good video by some Australian chap on how to instal it, looks pretty foolproof! The general build quality of the Warthog throttle is massively better than my Cougar throttle, and I’m really surprised they put in such a dumb piece of equipment for the radar slew control. But there we are. Good luck to the DeltaSim guy who clearly knows what he is doing and has made a nice little business from the opportunity.
I’ve reviewed the Virpil mods, I assume I need the VPC WarBRD Base? It looks like an impressive piece of engineering.
Alan“Need” no, but I can only say if you have the £££ budgeted it is a fantastic upgrade to the plastic ball-and-socket of the OEM stick. It comes with a set of stronger springs should you find the initially installed ones don’t give you the resistance you like (left mine as it came, love it). Changeing the VID\PID identifiers (easy, takes less than a minute) to match the OEM stick makes Win10 and TARGET see it as a TM HOTAS stick so everything stays as it was.
-
Yes, quite, that will be “need” as in “investment”.
Many years ago I replaced the Cougar stick innards with a U2NXT conversion (I think that was from Australia). Here we go again then. When I get to the point, will you advise me on how to give it a Warthog ID?
Best wishes
Alan -
Yes, quite, that will be “need” as in “investment”.
Many years ago I replaced the Cougar stick innards with a U2NXT conversion (I think that was from Australia). Here we go again then. When I get to the point, will you advise me on how to give it a Warthog ID?
Best wishes
AlanAbsolutely, here is the explanation I used IIRC…
Looking at that post I checked my “VPC Configuration Tool” and it has been updated since that reddit post so looks a little different. Below are the 3 things (circled) that you need to set correctly in Virpil, and the TARGET GUI screen after you are done… the process is the same (just set it as the FA\18 stick, there is no selection for F-16 for some reason, no matter)…
-
Icer, outstanding, thanks so much. I’ll let you know how I get on.
Alan -
Just checking in, how goes the battle Alan?
-
Hi Icer, thanks for asking and sorry for the radio silence - been on holiday in Devon for a week!
Well, Warthog is connected and shows up in Win 10 controllers (button 22 on the throttle stuck on but I can’t find a button 22 to switch off, so won’t worry about it).
Installed Alternate Launcher and that’s working.
Assigned axes in AL - very straightforward, thanks for the tip.
I’m having a problem with loading the key file - I’m loading the Warthog Basic DX keyfile (although the manual says to cut & paste the key file into user/config, some thoughtful person has already done that for BMS 4.35, so I didn’t). The stick buttons produce the wrong commands. I read the manual (!) and looked at my DeviceSorting.txt, which is showing the Logitech pedals as top of the list, stick at #2, throttle #3. So I cut and pasted the top line to the bottom - so it now reads stick then throttle then pedals, saved, restarted, and still get wrong commands. Back to DeviceSorting.txt and its changed back to pedals at the top ie for some reason the machine is overwriting my save. Dunno how to stop it doing this.
I also found when I fired up BMS via AL again, it had reverted to the BMS-Full key file.
So any advice on this would be very welcome indeed!
However I have to say that despite my buttons being dodgy I’ve done the landing TE and it looks amazing (the windfarm rotors rotate!!) and the plane is incredibly stable, but very responsive to stick inputs.
Your watchful eye from across the water is much appreciated. Bet it’s hotter here than where you are - we’ve been around 30 degrees and climbing.
Alan
I’m doing something dumb, but I’m too dumb to figure it out!
-
P.S I’ve just Googled and there’s a suggestion that AL is responsible for overwriting DeviceSorting.txt.
I’ll launch BMS from the .exe and see if it makes a difference
Alan -
If you use AL you can only have a BMS-Full.key file. AL is recreating the key on every startup. So by using AL you shouldn’t make any key or axis assignments or loading a different key file in the BMS setup UI. You can use the predelifered warthog key file with AL. Just rename it to BMS-Full.key
AL is not an addition to the BMS setup its a full replacement.Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
-
Hi Oakdesign, many thanks for that terrific explanation, now all is clear. I just reverted to launching via the BMS exe (ie I deleted all the AL files and reverted to the original Hub.exe) and it worked fine, nothing was re-written, but I didn’t understand why, and thanks to your explanation, now I do.
I’ve come from a long relationship with my Cougar and the Warthog is still a mystery to me. I used Dunc’s fantastic DX file with the Cougar (for years I’d laboriously programmed it with Foxy) and it was very effective, so I thought I should use the supplied DX file with the Warthog. But can I in fact use the BMS-Full key file? I notice with the Warthog Basic DX key file there are lots of unassigned kes (mainly on the throttle, but for example trim seems to have been transferred from the stick (where I’m used to it) to the throttle).
Alan
-
Hi Oakdesign, many thanks for that terrific explanation, now all is clear. I just reverted to launching via the BMS exe (ie I deleted all the AL files and reverted to the original Hub.exe) and it worked fine, nothing was re-written, but I didn’t understand why, and thanks to your explanation, now I do.
I’ve come from a long relationship with my Cougar and the Warthog is still a mystery to me. I used Dunc’s fantastic DX file with the Cougar (for years I’d laboriously programmed it with Foxy) and it was very effective, so I thought I should use the supplied DX file with the Warthog. But can I in fact use the BMS-Full key file? I notice with the Warthog Basic DX key file there are lots of unassigned kes (mainly on the throttle, but for example trim seems to have been transferred from the stick (where I’m used to it) to the throttle).
Alan
Alan, you do not need a special key file or any TARGET programming to get full use of your Warthog HOTAS (all buttons\hats\switches\axis) in BMS at all. Don’t get all wound up with the way others set it up, special keyfiles, or complicated commands that you won’t remember anyway ( … ). YOU decide what you want the switches\hats\buttons to do that makes sense to YOU, not someone else. It could not be easier than by using Alt Launcher and it’s PRESS and RELEASE functions. Switches that do not put out DX Presses (#'s) use RELEASE for that position to assign it. If you have a B&W laser and some photo paper you can make your own ghetto cover plate like me… Below is an example of AL using my bottom right (3 position) switch for all the 3 positions of the Parking Brake (and CATI - CATIII also) and a pic of the homemade paper “cover plate” I use for BMS. Once you have the template you can put whatever you want wherever you want, for any sim… Easy peasy, and it simply just works.
-
Hello Icer, yes I see what you mean, referring to that screenie from AL. So in other words I don’t have to use BMS Basic DX Key file and then muck about with it to move TRIM onto the stick POV, for example - I just make it from scratch using AL, right? Can’t be harder than programming a Cougar using Foxy….
I was amused the first time I plugged in the Warthog throttle and it lit up like a Christmas Tree - I like your customised plate overlay very much and when I’ve got a stable set-up I’ll make one.
My radar cursor slew kit has arrived, very nicely made and packaged, and much better than the Warthog ‘nipple’! In fact I’m so impressed with it I might get the Cougar conversion as well, which was all that was wrong with it. However moving the Cougar/Uber nxt stick is like pushing a stick of rhubarb in comparison with the Warthog. I’ll give that a go for a few weeks and see how I get in with it.
I’ll keep you (and the rest of the world who are doubtless following this saga with bated breath) posted on my progress.
Alan
-
Hello Icer, yes I see what you mean, referring to that screenie from AL. So in other words I don’t have to use BMS Basic DX Key file and then muck about with it to move TRIM onto the stick POV, for example - I just make it from scratch using AL, right?
I’ll keep you (and the rest of the world who are doubtless following this saga with bated breath) posted on my progress.
AlanYes, you just load AL and do everything right in there. No need for keystroke files, no need to touch BMS settings. Once all set up the way you want got to x:\Falcon BMS 4.35\User\Config and copy the “Setup.v.100.xxxxxxxxx.xml” files to a backup folder somewhere to save a lot of time should you wipe your install out. Grab the “phonebkn.ini” and your “(Callsign).lbk” also so you don’t lose any progress or MP connections you have set up… Now we just have to get you set up in IL2 BoX and you will be all set!
-
Yes, you just load AL and do everything right in there. No need for keystroke files, no need to touch BMS settings. Once all set up the way you want got to x:\Falcon BMS 4.35\User\Config and copy the “Setup.v.100.xxxxxxxxx.xml” files to a backup folder somewhere to save a lot of time should you wipe your install out. Grab the “phonebkn.ini” and your “(Callsign).lbk” also so you don’t lose any progress or MP connections you have set up… Now we just have to get you set up in IL2 BoX and you will be all set!
If you don’t want to start from scratch you still can just rename the BMS Basic DX Key to BMS-Full.key and start AL it will then have the predefined binding of the given Basic HOTAS DX file already in place
-
Guys, that’s great, I’ll give it a go over the weekend. Well I do recall Icer that I was an early adopter of IL2 Sturmovik! Before that I’ve got a serious amount of studying to do to get my new A2A Constellation airborne in FSXSE, besides trying to recall how to fly an F-16 in BMS 4.35. I’ve just been looking at chapter 10 of the BMS Technical Manual on DX programming, made my brain hurt - compare the astonishing set of documents you get with BMS 4.35 with the original Falcon 4.0 manual, which I still have. I’m especially pleased we’ve still got the same theme tune…
Alan