Problem with devicesorting.txt
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So I would be the second one, huh? Too bad, I love to be the first always.
To all those (yours too) above:
- lucky you, I’m experiencing this absolutely not capital “issue” since I installed Windows 7 -64 bit, and I am “on” Windows 11 Pro 22H2 now;
- I have no one of those softwares you quoted installed on my PC/system;
- I never felt the need to run any version of Falcon as an administrator;
- I always installed Falcon in its default directory (C:/Falcon BMS or the like) since years;
- there is currently almost 67% of space free on my 1Tb SSD after Falcon has installed.
With best regards.
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So, regardless of being admin, it’s only when I run Falcon BMS via Alternative Launcher (not admin) that the
Devicesorting.txt
file reverts from read-only to write.Might need to raise this with @chihirobelmo
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@CriticalMass said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@SemlerPDX I do. I’m sure it was needed for some other software, but that was a while ago:
- VA with your profile (obvs) (Admin)
- Helios (Admn)
- spacedesk (Not Admin)
- Opentrack (Admin)
- JoyStick Gremlin (Admin)
Do you run these? And do you run them as Admin?
I run my own AVCS profile for VA as Admin, because it is needed. That doesn’t mean that BMS itself also needs elevated permissions.
I don’t (yet) run Helios, was not aware this program requires to be run as Admin, but again, if so, that doesn’t mean that the BMS program also needs to be run as admin, unless Helios forces that requirement… does it?
I use TrackIR, and I do not run it as admin. When I used OpenTrack during VR testing in BMS, I do not recall having to run it as Admin, yet again, even if so, I didn’t run BMS as admin during those tests.
I do not use Joystick Gremlin (or spacedesk, or autohotkey, or any other utility other than VoiceAttack).
I also do not use Alternative Launcher.
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Do all users here who have issues with Devicesorting.txt being overwritten ALSO use Alternative Launcher? Would be nice if it was as simple as this, because that could be coded differently and then we’d have a proper solution instead of just a workaround.
If any of you do NOT use Alternative Launcher and have this Devicesorting.txt overwrite issue, please reply and let us know.
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@SemlerPDX So there was an unwritten rule (or a myth maybe) that if any software interacted with BMS they both had to have the elevated permissions - maybe VA was the original culprit being the one that seems to have administrator rights as a requirement: maybe that is no longer needed (I’m certainly going to set all my BMS related software to non-admin - except VA).
Looking at the changelog for AL v2.1.0 this line pops out
Sort Device Order, the device assigning more numbers of DX will come first.
v2.1.0 was when support for 128 DX devices was added, so maybe needs to overwrite the sorting file.
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@SemlerPDX I also don’t use AL and don’t have this problem.
Definitely AL must write DeviceSorting.txt … as it goes hand in hand with the .key file.
I think they added a “no overwrite” mode to prevent that kind of thing, once you get your bindings and axes all dialed in…
But tbh, AL is nice when configuring your keybd and hotas bindings. But for actual launching? I just make a desktop shortcut to
\Falcon BMS 4.36\Bin\x64\Falcon BMS.exe
and whatever other tools I need (WDP? IVC? RTT?) and be done with it. -
(the ampersand & and the tilde ~ used this way, are a shorthand to mean “turn off the ReadOnly flag”)
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@Cop23rd so, putting aside the readonly flag stuff, and going back to square zero … the original bug report … can you confirm if the problem (repeated lines in DeviceSorting.txt) happens when you launch BMS directly … not through Alt Launcher?
at this point I don’t know if that is an Alt Launcher bug, or a BMS bug.
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AL rewrites DeviceSorting no matter its read-only or not.
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@airtex2019 'I dont use alternate launcher. The lines with additional controllers are not listet visibly in devicesorting list in read only status, but they are still avtive, when I test the buttons.
If devicesorting file is writable, the lines will be added… -
dang - was hoping we were onto something here.
If Cop23rd doesn’t use AL, then it’s kinda back to square one. The best thing that could be done would be to try to create dependable steps that can recreate this issue on any computer, and narrow it from there… is it only one WinOS version? Are there WinOS security or configuration changes that matter such as installation location, etc.?
Fun in the sun here we come - weeeeeee
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@SemlerPDX it aligns with my earlier theory of how it all works:
- BMS enumerates all HID game/button devices, at startup
- it orders those in a way to align with what it reads in DeviceSorting.txt
- the remaining devices, if any, are (implicitly) appended to end of that list, held in memory (presumably, in whatever arbitrary order the OS enumerates them)
- button-ranges in the .key file are mapped to the devices, according to that (in-memory) view of device order, and per the g_nButtonsPerDevice cfg of course.
- if DeviceSorting.txt is writeable, this new order is written to disk so it stays consistent for next time
The issue of AL turning off the readonly flag and overwriting, is completely separate.
Possible Bug #1: I don’t know if or why BMS is continually re-appending those 6 specific devices, over and over … workaround appears to be to set the readonly flag. But root cause, seems like something worth deeper investigation.
Possible Bug #2: (this one very arguable) that if the OS enumerates a device that’s not in DeviceSorting.txt, should BMS assign buttons from key file to it at all?
One one hand it seems ridiculously arbitrary … there is no guarantee what order the OS enumerates the devices in (that is the whole reason for DeviceSorting.txt after all)
But on other hand, it would be weird and lame if someone simply replaced one joystick with another, and all of a sudden none of the buttons worked.
I think BMS team probably made the right tradeoff. Users with high-end hotas, vjoy and MFD panels etc, are going to be expected to hand-manage their DeviceSorting.txt file… vs random newb replacing one stick with another, suddenly confused why no buttons work.
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@SemlerPDX Same problem here with 4.37, no AL just Devicesorting.txt keep overwritten even when i set it to Read Only
Just no way for me to work with this… hope the problem can be solved -
@Ulti said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@SemlerPDX Same problem here with 4.37, no AL just Devicesorting.txt keep overwritten even when i set it to Read Only
Just no way for me to work with this… hope the problem can be solvedI had this problem too. Once you use AL even once you cannot get rid of its settings. At least I couldn’t I was forced to reinstall BMS and chose not to put icon on desktop. I made shortcut to old launcher and only used that. Then my DX key file and device order text worked fine. I hope AL stays alternative not only launcher. I use DX key file and do not use AL and don’t really see the need for it personally.
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Also, I just realized you can use the launch without setup override. I did not see that option and it appears many did not.
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@Icarus o.k. thanks for your suggestions, will try that (set override)
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@Ulti said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@SemlerPDX Same problem here with 4.37, no AL just Devicesorting.txt keep overwritten even when i set it to Read Only
Just no way for me to work with this… hope the problem can be solvedAre you running Falcon BMS as an admin?
(see pic in the reply above if you don’t know what that is, I don’t wanna assume either way)Does the text in the file actually change or is it only in the way things work once you are in BMS? Does the last-modified date and time change on this file after you start and later stop the Falcon BMS process?
Has this been kicked up the chain to the dev’s yet? Can’t imagine they’ve not seen this thread, not sure if one of the replies here is from one - been awhile and didn’t re-read all 40 posts above.
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@Cop23rd said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@airtex2019 'I dont use alternate launcher. The lines with additional controllers are not listet visibly in devicesorting list in read only status, but they are still avtive, when I test the buttons.
If devicesorting file is writable, the lines will be added…Have you ever used Alternative Launcher, even just once to check it out or see what it is like?
Asking in reference to @Icarus reply above:
@Icarus said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
I had this problem too. Once you use AL even once you cannot get rid of its settings. At least I couldn’t I was forced to reinstall BMS and chose not to put icon on desktop. I made shortcut to old launcher and only used that. Then my DX key file and device order text worked fine. I hope AL stays alternative not only launcher. I use DX key file and do not use AL and don’t really see the need for it personally.
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@SemlerPDX said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@Ulti said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@SemlerPDX Same problem here with 4.37, no AL just Devicesorting.txt keep overwritten even when i set it to Read Only
Just no way for me to work with this… hope the problem can be solvedAre you running Falcon BMS as an admin?
YES i run as Admin(see pic in the reply above if you don’t know what that is, I don’t wanna assume either way)
Does the text in the file actually change or is it only in the way things work once you are in BMS? Does the last-modified date and time change on this file after you start and later stop the Falcon BMS process?
The text file changes after exiting BMS, my changes are overwritten. date and time changes also
Has this been kicked up the chain to the dev’s yet? Can’t imagine they’ve not seen this thread, not sure if one of the replies here is from one - been awhile and didn’t re-read all 40 posts above.
Not kicked up to the devs yet
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@SemlerPDX said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@Cop23rd said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
@airtex2019 'I dont use alternate launcher. The lines with additional controllers are not listet visibly in devicesorting list in read only status, but they are still avtive, when I test the buttons.
If devicesorting file is writable, the lines will be added…Have you ever used Alternative Launcher, even just once to check it out or see what it is like?
Asking in reference to @Icarus reply above:
@Icarus said in Problem with devicesorting.txt:
I had this problem too. Once you use AL even once you cannot get rid of its settings. At least I couldn’t I was forced to reinstall BMS and chose not to put icon on desktop. I made shortcut to old launcher and only used that. Then my DX key file and device order text worked fine. I hope AL stays alternative not only launcher. I use DX key file and do not use AL and don’t really see the need for it personally.
I never used the AL program, so that cannot be the problem.