Pico 4 experience and settings
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@chihirobelmo said in Pico 4 experience and settings:
@TUAF-Ripper Quest2 works without such a tweak…I recommend Quest 2. You can read MFDs.
I have Pico 4 and use it with BMS 437 as well as all other flight sims of the last many years and I have had zero issues with reading anything in the cockpit, no tweaks or anything else necessary. One thing I do know is that it is far superior to Quest 2 as far as graphics is concerned.
Switching from Pico 4 to Quest 2 in the same session is like going from Quest 2 to Rift CV1 would be.
Since I got Pico 4 I have only used my Quest 2 once, when I was charging the Pico.*should perhaps add that I’m using an RTX4080 and an i5 9600k @4.5GHz with 32GB DDR4
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@JDUK said in Pico 4 experience and settings:
@chihirobelmo said in Pico 4 experience and settings:
@TUAF-Ripper Quest2 works without such a tweak…I recommend Quest 2. You can read MFDs.
I have Pico 4 and use it with BMS 437 as well as all other flight sims of the last many years and I have had zero issues with reading anything in the cockpit, no tweaks or anything else necessary. One thing I do know is that it is far superior to Quest 2 as far as graphics is concerned.
Switching from Pico 4 to Quest 2 in the same session is like going from Quest 2 to Rift CV1 would be.
Since I got Pico 4 I have only used my Quest 2 once, when I was charging the Pico.*should perhaps add that I’m using an RTX4080 and an i5 9600k @4.5GHz with 32GB DDR4
Same experience here going from reverb G1. Pancake lens is the way to go
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@Fresco Thank you for your reply. Your reply helps a lot. My Pico will arrive tomorrow.
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@bluesharp Hey Bluesharp
Did you get the Pico? How are they working for you?
f you’re on a tight graphics budget, how you adjust the settings is critical.
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@TUAF-Ripper your deterioration is too high, even if you have cockpit settings at 1024. It’s the wireless signal. Go wifi6 and others will tell you you’ll be happy.
Me? I used a USB connection, ADB and had a significantly better experience.
Throw on Virtual Desktop for the win.
Throw on OpenXR Runtime (instaed of bloaty steam for eg) and do even better.
Finally if you can take the ADB USB connection and get a Gigabit adaptor, you’ll be winning… and that’s the part I’m trying for now.
Let me know if I can help in any way (eg when you get VD, ask me about settings), on anything BUT running Pico 4 on gigabit adaptor, through the router. (Which along with VD and OpenXR, is the creamy goodness for DCS and is what I’m aiming for).good luck!
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@Fish44 I love your love for the Pico. My 6 core is hardly keeping up with yours, my ram is half, and my pony lil 1070 is just about to pinch.
… going to upgrade ram then start saving up for a graphics card…
Just wanted to BUMP for your specs.
I will have to sell my children for a 3090Ti, for that gorgeous 24gb VRAM Array…Now… Does anyone here have a 1070 (or similar grade graphics card), and know how to make her TICK BEST with the Pico 4? Figured that one was worth an ask.
Let this one be a reach for all of us driving potatoes for now. Please and Ty. -
@Jester428 Hello Jester. Thank you for your kind suggestions. Unfortunately, I realized that I cannot make purchases at Pico Store in my country. So, VD is not an option for me right now. But, the other things you talk about sound interesting. For example, I have never heard of ADB before. Or I have no idea how to run Falcon on OpenXR. I think you can describe all these in detail for our all community.
Best regards.
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@TUAF-Ripper well i kinda got lost here looking for moves to make getting my Pico working for DCS (pour your distain on, now).
SO I have no idea about falcon - heck, hardly just got one about DCS.
In the meantime I’ve been hacking about with hardware and the pico trying to get it to do things swimmingly.I WILL present my findings in full, hopefully shortly, describing every square inch of my hardware setup, my configs for various software, options when applicable, and software I’ve bought, hacked, created (batch files for instance).
Really it shouldn’t be all that complicated to get your flight sim moving, perhaps even on OpenXR, and with either ADB spoofing a gigabit connection, or (if i can get it working!!!) this gigabit adaptor and some really cool things this adaptor does, on top.What I’m aiming at is glory: All the following working:
GLORY: with Ethernet Adaptor & Gigabitz
Pico plugged into a USB adaptor that provides Gigabit connection, natively, from it’s USB, via a powered hub on my chair, which is stacked with a power strip, 80W supplier, power for the hub, etc. So lines to my chair include a cat 7 cable and the power. Now… that whole lot runs power to the gigabit adaptor, and presto, if you connect the cat cable to the PC you get an ethernet. SHARE your wireless internet connection with said ethernet connection and voila: Gigabit direct to PC, Power all you can eat, and the Pico even gets internet connection thanks to the sharing.
What’s REALLY cool is that you can then use the adaptor to plug in ALL KINDS using Pico as a host: HDMI out to a monitor, plug in a USB stick or camera, etc. But I’ll tell you later why this doesn’t work.
Gigabit to PC I’ve had working.GLORY: PART 2:
What I really want - once we get that working fluidly - is Pico to ROUTER, then joining the netowork like a client device parallel to my machine. THIS will give me the ethernet port on my PC to router, not dedicated to the PICO. No hot-swapping. No resting my PC on Wifi while using the Pico.SUB GLORY with ADB:
Pico plugged into a the adaptor by a 3m cable, that then powered, that also running to the PC (via another long USB). Use ADB and run the usual ethernet from USB spoof. This gives me plenty of joystick-plus-leg-room and im able to move my chair back/around/outTheWay, instead of being restricted to a 2m cable from the back of my PC to my head, right? Now with 6 meters I can trapse it from the front, to the chair, then have plenty of cord. ADB will run a gigabit connection, it’s not native, but it’s nice, and so far no headaches (I can’t get Glory working, I’ll explain) and it’s compatible as all hell. You don’t get USB MTP (it steals it) but somehow VD and Streaming Assistant find the device.You know about the standard issue stuff, right? Streaming Assistant by USB, by Wifi, making sure you have your PC hardwired, make sure your router is wifi6 and ax and good for all you can eat 5Ghz at 80-160Mhz and if you can dedicate a router for this purpose.
Now, why? Because with
- streaming on wifi you get 70-something latency on network.
- streaming on ADB hack and you get a lovely 5-45 network latency; it’s playable.
- streaming on Gigabit adaptor I’ve SEEN ON YOUTUBE people getting 5-15ms.
That’s why.
And as if that sum isn’t turning you on, consider this: THE MORE you take add to networking regarding stability and capacity, and the more LATENCY you remove, the “better” your connection. The “better” your connection, the less ENCODING and DECODING you need to do (mainly the first should be reduced, theoretically).
I’m HOPING that reducing the networky by 50-odd milliseconds, taking out the VARIANCE of the wifi connection, firming it up with something the computers call “Gigabit”, removing latency, means you not only get those milliseconds, but take a massive amount of strain off your PC, and the encode/decode process.
I think.
Worth a bloody try.
PROBLEMS:
Now to the problems. I don’t just have problems, I come with theories…
A) Pico, using the Gigabit adaptor, as a HOST (turning the adaptor end toward the pico) means you get a lush compliment of HDMI out, Card readers, USB 3.0 A hosts, and the lovely Gigabit connection. I’ve ONCE got this working DIRECTLY with a cat7 to my PC. Seemed to recognize the ethernet connection BUT I never saw any good speeds, though it WAS the case I DISCONNECTED WIFI to test it. Seriously, it just sat around at something aweful like 240mbps - I was like WTF.
Here’s something fun: Ping is 1ms. Plug it into the router, it also gets seen as a device, ping 1-2ms. Lovely. So WHY?
This is using the Pico as a HOST. Making the adaptor a squid, and taking CAT CABLE to the PC for your data. Share your wifi connection with Ethernet 2, like before, and power the adaptor with 25-100W (need 25 for pico).
I’ve had some luck with this but run into another issue with OpenXR not loading, I’ve got Windows Mixed Reality environment taking over and my progress ran aground.
I also foresee massive complications if all this works, getting my router to host it and my computer in parallel. Okay okay maybe I’ll just get a switch. Nice idea that might work and save us all the headache. But we MUST have our PC ethernet to router, and the Pico plugged in next to it…no?
Okay so much to work on with GLORY.
(And tonight I’ve been weighleighed by a freaking issue with WIndows Mixed Realpainfully, who’s wreaked my OpenXR stuff so now it won’t find the headset. Never mind that. Just my lil bitxh)
All input appreciated here.
The problem is now that you have a gigabit connection… but lose the USB cognition, which sends many programs going “where’s the headset”. Right…B) Now… let’s get creative. Let’s turn the adaptor the other way around.
For tonight, just trying to get my apache working again (after I’ve broken everything and there’s now wires and bits everywhere), I set it back up to pure USB (Sub Glory)… Now the PC is the host, the adaptor becomes IT’S Squid, and the Pico once again becomes a slave perhifferal… Okay, it shows up nicely again as an MTP and the ADB hack works - you can tether to the PC from the usual menu in pico…
The COMPUTER then gets the hosting of the thumb drive and strangely you have another HDMI out for the win… and you have a WHATS THIS? Gigabit connection to… fook, round in circles. Remember to remove your wifi sharing. Okay, now remove the gigabit cables too, it’s not what we’re doing here. Plug you PC back into the router. Yep, we’re doing things backwards now… what do we get?
Well, we do get ADB to throw a signal as far as the hub, the hub sends it to the adaptor, the adaptor allows you to charge the pico while using adb… right?
NO. Because the HOST is what is powered by the hub, you get the choice:
Use PICO as host, GIGABIT to the PC and POWER that beast. OR>…
Use PC as the host, USB all the way through, but the POWER is now …powering your computer… not great.All in all it’s going to be best like this:
Get the pico hosting the adaptor again, power her, use all the hdmi and such, and throw gigabit cat7 towards a SWITCH that goes to your computer and the router. Now we’re in business. Should have been anyway… but now with this runtime issue I’m drawn off task fixing that. I don’t have a switch but talked to someone who did use one and they got it.
I could use a hand.
And yeah, long ass novel was long. You asked for it.
And this is NOT even NEAR the final issue. -
@TUAF-Ripper oh jesus and you asked about OpenXR Runtime:
So think of steam as a funhouse of all kinds: It does steam things, it does advertising and analytics, it does marketting. It does a games library and the updating, the friends and such, all the home Lounge area it gives you for comfort, but it’s always running that crap and it’s HEAVY. It likely does a bunch more too. THEN it creates a 3D space and talks between your headset and computer… right?
Well openXR was designed (and it’s in/compatWith/drivingNatively) to do the last bit. Just the last bit. SO long story short, you get a MUCH more streamlined platform, and generally the same capabilities regarding that bit (compression, resolution, field of view, controller stuff, mic use, etc).
Also it’s free…
What used to be called OpenComposite (and actually that’s a word still used) is now the OpenXR project, and it’s doing well. DCS natively runs in OpenXR until someone feeds it steam or pours on some aweful Winshits Realparody. Their layers on top make gaming sad.
So in DCS I got my raging latency down from about 180 to a decent 70something between the ADB hack and the OpenXR, and it was very much both of them that did it, as well as depending on Virtual Desktop, the world’s leading streamer visa vie lower latency.So I hope this helps you all. NOT AT ALL SURE if this part (openXR) is applicable to Falcon.
Let me know so I can advise better in the future…and if anyone wants to invite me to Falcon, I’ll check it out. I need other study-level sims, for rotary, if that’s what this is.Now… what do you need to OpenXR?
- OpenComposite Runtime Switcher
- OpenXR Companion Toolkit (optional but a no-brainer)
- SOME proggies you want to make a post-command in the execution (create a shortcut and use that to run the program), --force_VR --force_OpenVR or something like that.
Then what happens is OComposite steals anything asking to run Steam VR and uses OpenXR instead. No lounge, nice lightweight everything, it’s a real step up.
You will miss your steam controller profiles and may need to redesign some of that stuff. you can always bring them over from steam… ahem, the only games I had this issue with I had… ahem… begotten for previewing purposes.
I honestly can’t think of any other compatability issues I’ve had. -
@TUAF-Ripper
Now… is this complicated? Too complicated?Well this entire discussion has been about getting Pico, a natively Stand-Alone VR kit, to PLAY VIDEO AND SOUND as nicely as some other gear with HDMI for crying out loud. Why bother? Because the Pico blows ALLLLLL the other gear out of the water with it’s specs. Now I’m in DCS with a latency of 90 (my computer is potato), of which 15-25 is networking, 15 encode, 15 decode, and yeah my PC needs about 40 to run game. I like it much better when in SP it’s 50-70, but I’ll give you my MP numbers.
It’s JUST playable. I dig it. And I am LOVING the Pico’s specs.So how complicated?
ONE piece of software (Virtual Desktop) because it’s BEST in latency.
ONE or TWO pieces of software to run OpenXR (free)
2x 3m USB QC PD Cords, 1x USB Hub, 1x Gigabit Adaptor with Frills (18 GBP)
1x script that I can give you in a batch file.
ON RUNTIME:
Double click OpenComposite and check OVR is selected.
Check connections of USB all the way up. Make self comfy in cockpit.
Double click on the ADB batch file, select exit, hit USB TETHER.
Reload Streaming software (VD)
DISABLE WIFI IF YOU WANT TO PROVE HARDLINE
Run GameOkay, so it’s got some stuff you need to work on, some very specific hardware/software, a little config, a little expense.
But - and certainly the runtime part - is easy enough.You don’t just negate the Pico’s HDMI trouble with the gigabit (USB Steroids),
You also get the all you can eat HDMI, Cards, USB, Ethernet package
You also get OpenXR working nicely instead of Steam Chunks
You also get a much longer cord with this setup. Those 2m cords are nonsense.Oh - that’s in case I didn’t mention that if you have more than 2 cords, or the total length is more than 5 meters, ADB Tethering - if not entirely the USB connection - does not work.
This is to be noted in your designs and again, one of the reasons I’m here to fix stuff up I hope we’re in this together.Pico is beautiful. She deserves the respect. She’s an unwanted stepchild for not having HDMI (like wtf people) but I do believe we’ve got what we need to work around this.
And frankly for all the issues she’s got getting her top notch - she still shizzzz liberally on all the other headsets for the price.
I really won’t have it cussed out when it can be fixed up…
WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.Again, sorry for the novels.
Thoughts? -
@TUAF-Ripper as for you in wherever you are, i’m really sorry. that is just wrong.
Maybe get a VPN and sort that? Or look into darker apks that people have cooked, just be careful.
And if I can do anything to help (send you the APK?) then let me know… though I have a feeling the distrib I have will likely bark from your national IP range.
Lmk if I can help though, and I certainly wish you luck… that stinks, brother. -
@ipetter said in Pico 4 experience and settings:
Tried Streaming Assistant again, settings maxed and with the bitrate set to 100-125 mbps via manual edit of the config-file for it. While the GFX is on par with or slightly better than VD, there’s something that looks like a “zoom-stutter” using this, and it’s very annoying! The performance is also worse, and bitrate seems more unstable with some stuttering.
My conclusion is that Virtual Desktop is superior on the Pico 4. Also, there’s no warping that Quest 2 users have been reporting with VD.
Final settings (for now):
BMS Config:
set g_nVRHMD 1 // Enables the OpenVR (default 0/false). set g_fVRZOOMFOV 60 // Field of view in degrees for VR ZOOM (default 60.0). set g_nVRHMCSEYE 0 // HMCS renders, 0 Right eye, 1 Left eye (default 0/false). set g_fVRResolution 1.3 // VR resolution multiplier. 1.0 by default. set g_bVRParallelRenderThread 1 // Enable Multi-Thread optimization for VR set g_bVRNoPresent 1 // This will not display the companion window in VR (only HMD will show image in 3d).
Also turned off environment mapping, but left shadows on.
Steam VR:
- World scale 120%
Virtual Desktop:
- Quality: High
- Bitrate: 125 mbps (go higher if you can, this is my max ATM)
- Refresh: 90 Hz (has to be enabled on the headset first)
- Sharpening: 30%
- Everything else is on default/auto.
Since I have an AMD Radeon GFX-card, VD uses H.264 encoding for better performance. Nvidia users will most likely want HEVC, and VD will probably select it automatically. This will improve the image slightly, at the cost of a bit more latency.
YMMW, so if anyone else is using the Pico 4 do please share your experiences, settings and computer specs
This conditions just work nice. Thank you.
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@bluesharp
He’s Aces on the codec information there.
Why go SA?
Why 120 instead of 140? en/de-coding? Sure.
AND thank you for the latency info on the nVidia/HEVC issue. As with top line (codec intel) it’s good to learn more each day.
LATENCY happens to be my issue. So it’s good to know I’m dealing with that while comparing diags to others online with radeon cards.
a little info here and there… Thanks guys. -
Here’s a short video demonstrating how to interface with BMS and tools while using the PICO 4 and virtual desktop. It includes all my settings at the end of the video.
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You’re not getting an optimal wireless experience with a Wi-Fi 5 connection especially using TP-Link equipment. Asus Wi-Fi 6 routers are generally recommended. You can get a cheap Asus 1300 Wi-Fi 6 router specifically for your Pico 4 to connect with. Make sure your PC is connected by a LAN cable to the router you’re connecting to the Pico and you’re off to the races.
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@mikelimtw said
You’re not getting an optimal wireless experience with a Wi-Fi 5 connection …
That’s why I use a Wifi 6 router. (TP-Link AX3000 M)
Asus Wi-Fi 6 routers are generally recommended.
I’ve had no issues with my TP-Link router, in fact it replaces an Asus Wifi5 router, which gave me endless trouble having to reboot regularly. Ive been using TP-Link switches for years without issue.
Make sure your PC is connected by a LAN cable to the router you’re connecting to the Pico and you’re off to the races.
That’s exactly how i’m connected, and thanks for the tips.
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Hello !
I tried to improve things without touching any falcon_bms.cfg line or usb tethering settings.
Just using the “vanilla settings” and keep things simple and stupid.-
I plug my headset with a GOOD usb cable
(no USB Tethering… I’m just connecting into Streaming Assistant wired. I don’t even understand the utility of tethering and can’t find the option anyway). -
I set 90hz into the headset settings menu.
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I update Streaming Assistant on the computer, and i set display mode to “HD” or “ULTRA”, and 90hz (don’t really see the difference between these two actually).
Now, Falcon looks just fine, i’m able to read my instrument into the cockpit
Running on a 3070ti, I’ve got 70 fps anyway and nothing is set “carrefully” for now.
I should be able to improve FPS, having a look at graphics option, “fine tune” my graphics options, active the line “set g_bVRNoPresent 1 // set to 1 to disable companion”, this kind of things.Works just fine now, i can finally read my MFDs/ded and the cockpit is even more impressive !
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