Still flaming out in the A 4 on CCIP dives.
-
Don’t know what the problem is. I don’t think I am exceed aircraft limits. Engine dies right when I pull up. Air restart never works. Any Ideas? Got to be something I am overlooking.
-
Probably because the A4 is not meant to be human flyable…
-
@Cpt_Communist said in Still flaming out in the A 4 on CCIP dives.:
Don’t know what the problem is. I don’t think I am exceed aircraft limits. Engine dies right when I pull up. Air restart never works. Any Ideas? Got to be something I am overlooking.
Hi, Cap. Which theater? I ask as I just tested 2 of the several versions of the A-4 we have in OFM-VietNam. I did 50-70 degree dives to 500-550 kt with no flameouts.
-
@drtbkj Yeah, this is what I suspected, I flame out in all theaters in 4.37 that I have tried (ME, OFMKTO, KTO, Somalia, etc). So it has to be me, right? In a real A4 it might be related to a compressor stall due to AOA changes, that is exactly how it occurs—consistent flame out when I am pulling up out of a dive after munition release. But I think I’m probably just missing something. It would be no big deal if I could do an air restart, but so far I haven’t been able to. I have printed out the engine restart procedure and will adapt it to the hornet pit to see if I can at least get a restart in midair.
-
@Cpt_Communist Hi. I can’t address KTO , MidEast(ME?) , or Balkans as that’s not our OFM database. But you did mention OFMKTO so I doublechecked and it looks like it has the same files I tested in 'Nam.
If you give the specs of a typical dive (speed, dive angle, g’s on pull out) I’ll try to reproduce it. Do you dive with throttle chopped, btw? Could you possibly be pulling the throttle back over the idle detent? My testing was with throttle at MIL. Also. testing was done in the A4-E. May I suggest you try the same
As for air restarts, there are a couple of things you might try.- Let engine rpm lower to <10% before you restart. Of course, that might be a bit difficult to do at the bottom of a dive over enemy territory, so let’s see if we can solve your problem
- go into 4.37/data/your OFM theater/sim/acdata/a4_E(or whatever your varient is).dat ,find jfsRechargeTime and change the stock 60 to 0. I do this routinely in my own installs to emulate the naval a/c APU start up.
- Use jfs2 . In the Hornet pit that is right clicking the engine start switch
UPDATE: You got me curious so I did some follow up testing. 70 deg. dives from 10-14K. Various dives with with throttle MIL/throttle chopped/airbrake out and in. Dove to 2000ft AGL or lower(generally, when Bitching Betty yelled) and pulled as hard as possible. I simply couldn’t repro your flame out
Good news though. I also tested restarts and had multiple successes with this procedure( testing was done with jfsRechargeTime 0) …- Pull throttle back over the detent ( ie: engine off)
- APU on ( You probably don’t have to do this in BMS, but it’s force of habit for me, and IMHO more realistic)
- Right click engine crank (and btw you do NOT have to let rpm drop <10, at least in the A-4) . What happens is the rpm will drop to 25% then the engine will restart. More good news is the Scooter glides so well I only lost about 1000 ft.
-
@drtbkj thanks for taking the time to respond. I will follow these recommendations. I will use Vietnam and test it out so we are on the same page. Ill follow up.
-
This is what I have on the A-4E engine, and my JFS restart is at 15. Does this match what you started with?
typeEngine 0
nEngines 1
engine1Location -18.80 0.00 -1.50
engine2Location 0.00 0.00 0.00
engine3Location 0.00 0.00 0.00
engine4Location 0.00 0.00 0.00
hasATC 0
engineSmokes 2
normSpoolRate 2.2
abSpoolRate 2.2
SecRpmVar 0.00
FlcsBitRpmVar 0.00
nozzleMil 0.00
nozzleIdleLGDown 0.94
nozzleIdleLGUp 0.00
nozzleSpoolRateOpen 1.20
nozzleSpoolRateClose 0.25
LGIdle 0
jfsStartUpTime 15
jfsSpoolUpRate 15.0
jfsSpoolUpLimit 0.25
lightupSpoolRate 10.0
flameoutSpoolRate 80.0
jfsRechargeTime 60
jfsMinRechargeRpm 0.12
jfsSpinTime 240
FTITHotStart 11.500
FTITEngineFireGround 10.000
FTITEngineFireAir 10.000
FTITStart 6.100
FTITIdle 5.100
FTITMax 8.600
FTITAB 8.623
mainGenRpm 0.63
stbyGenRpm 0.60
epuBurnTime 600
DeepStallEngineStall 0
engineDamageStopThreshold 13
engineDamageNoRestartThreshold 50
engineDamageHitThreshold 25
complexnozzle 0
animExhNozIdle 0.0
animExhNozMil 10.0
animExhNozMax 5.0
animExhNozAB 0.0
animExhNozABMax 15.0
animExhNozRate 5.0
PropEngineSwitchStates 0
animEngineRPMMult 1000
HeatBlurShift 4
hasReverseThrust 0
ReverseThrustFactor 0.0
minReverseThrustSpeed 0
animReverseAngle 0
animReverseRate 0.0 -
@drtbkj
Alright I ran several tests here, all on static targets, after adjusting the JFS recharge to 0 per instructions. A-4 E (non agr) out of Than San Nhut. Vietnam. Latest updated install, latest Vietnam version.First flight, full load of MK82, no fuel tank, approached at 10k ft, full throttle, and dove at around 70 deg. Released all pulled out very low, never touched the throttle, no air brake.
ENGINE DID FINESecond scenario exact same but from 20k, Engine cut out before I released. Could not restart. Reads APU fire, Elec warning light, Hydraulic warning, Used your restart procedure, Gen tie-in red light warning, engine cranks but wont light.
Third scenario, same, 20k, dive within limits, used airbrake, Mil power, engine cut, same readings, would not restart.
Fourth, No weapons, 17k, Mil power, no air brakes, dove at five miles out from target , flame out when pulling up, same warning lights
Fifth, I tried cranking up the damage no start to 70, engine died as soon as I dipped the nose, would not restart, same reading.
I thought maybe I was just exceeding the AC capacity, but the dive from 10 in test 1 at full throttle made me suspicious.
Additionally, note, the engine cut out at about 450 knots, as near as I could tell. With air brakes on, it cut at 270.
So that’s where I am at.
I have a zip of the model data if you would like to see it.
-
@Cpt_Communist I’ll do more testing this morning, particularly that dive from 20K. Before you test, here are the current A4-E files https://www.mediafire.com/folder/15tn57wa1ysek/A4-E
Just so we’re on the same page.UPDATE: Testing complete and I have 2 pieces of good news for you. First, you’re not nuts I was able to repro. Second, I believe I know what the issue is-the jet is VERY negative G sensitive. So, instead of pushing over into the dive I went inverted and dove. I did 3 successful dives, the last was 55 deg. , with 11 Mk82.
I was also able to restart. The only other tip I can give you is to only put the throttles at 50% as you restart, not all the way to MIL.
I’ll be afk for a few days, in the meantime why don’t you vary your dive procedures and see what does and doesn’t work. Even once into the dive be very watchful of negative G, especially sudden inputs.
I’ve tried something in the dat file, which didn’t help. We’ll investigate that further. -
@drtbkj Oh man, Thank you. I am glad I am not nuts. I love the A-4 but haven’t been able to enjoy it in 4.37. I will update with the OFM model, and I will continue to test it out and apply the recommendations. Thank you so much.
-
@Cpt_Communist You’re very welcome. We were speaking a the files earlier. One thing we have tried elsewhere is to set the thrust multiplier value in the .dat file to 2.4
-
@drtbkj Inverted dives with negative G’s. This is all TopGun stuff to me
-
@Obi1 said in Still flaming out in the A 4 on CCIP dives.:
@drtbkj Inverted dives with negative G’s. This is all TopGun stuff to me
Ah,yes. But, that’s the cool thing about flight sims in general and BMS in particular