ZSU+AGM88
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@molnibalage I am no expert of AGM-88 but Ukraine use them without tracking something specific. Once the missile is released and from available Intelligence it goes directly to the first radar emission stored in its database and at least once it rushed on ZSU-23 They really use it in a primitive mode.
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I once took a shot at a ZSU in a RL Harrier Trainer with a Sidewinder…I was loaded out for a CAS/Strike scenario and halfway down the route the Controller jumped me with two Mig-21s. I Combat Jett my A/G weapons and climbed to attack the Migs head on - killed one with a Sidewinder, and the second one with the Gun. Then went back to the deck and on vectors to my objective…
…at which point the Controller told me my objective was a ZSU and that there would be smoke on the target some number of seconds before my arrival. I’d Jett my Mk-80s so I toggled up the Gun and found out that straffing with a Harrier takes more skill than downing a Mig-21. At least for me…when that 25mm fires the jet tucks because the gun is on the belly…practice is required.
After somehow surviving two passes (and totally missing the ZSU with the Gun) the Controller told me “I don’t think guns are going to cut it”. To which I replied - “guns are all I got”…and the Controller said - "if this was real, you’d think of something.
…so…I selected my last remaining Sidewinder. As long as the ZSU was shooting at me I was getting intermittent tone…so after blowing another pass, I put the missile into Boresight and forced my way down the thing’s throat. I got solid tone, and called “Fox 2”…only to hear the Controller tell me - “I thought you had him, but the missile broke lock”. Go figure…
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@Stevie is it an irony story ? Or a real story ?
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@Radium - real story, but in a RL Trainer sim and not RW combat.
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@Stevie Surprising ! So heat source from operating Shilka itself was sufficient to drive an IR seaker. What kind of sidewinder was simulated ? AIM-9M ? AIM-9L ? AIM-9P ?
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The AIM-9X actually has a surface attack mode. I don’t know too much about its employment, but I’d imagine it would be more of a last-effort weapon, like maybe when you’re Winchester on AG stores, maybe out of 20mm, and there’s a troops in contact situation requiring emergency CAS. Just spitballing.
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@mirv but… did AIM-9X has been ever implemented on Harrier ? 🤨
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I have no idea. I don’t know much about the Harrier.
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@Stevie Surprising ! So heat source from operating Shilka itself was sufficient to drive an IR seaker. What kind of sidewinder was simulated ? AIM-9M ? AIM-9L ? AIM-9P ?
I have doubts even considering an AIM-9L/M.
The already had the InSb detector material, but it still needed the large amount of exhaust gas of a turbojet/turbofan.The engine power of a Shilka is in 0.5 MW range if move with full power.
The max. mil power of an F-16C is in the 15MW scale… -
@molnibalage I have big doubts also. Maybe AIM-9X has some IR mode that allows you launch your missile on a TGP designated target or something… It’s technically possible but what I say here is purely speculative !
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@Radium - I was loaded with two AIM-9Ms…one of which I had fired to down the first Mig-21. On the Harrier config I was flying the AIM-9 had two acquisition modes - the first of which I tried only provided intermittent tone, and was why I selected Boresight for re-attack. And that did end up working by forcing the seeker to stare at the muzzles - but as I figured would happen, the ZSU probably ceased fire as soon as he saw the smoke in the air, and so the missile broke lock. At least that’s my theory.
I also have a feeling his engine may not have been running - the missile might have bit on that (the exhaust) if it had been. Which can also be a problem in shooing an IR MAV, or taking a FLIR lock on a tank or other running vehicle depending on how the lock is mechanized. You have to lock from an aspect that minimizes this effect in order to better insure a hit.
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@Radium - 9X may be on the Radar Harrier…dunno. I’m not even sure if JHMCS is on the Radar Harrier, and without it there’s really no utility to 9X.
I do know that neither Day Attack nor Night Attack Harriers incorporate(d) Joint Helmet. But once upon a time, there was also this AIM-9 variant -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-122_Sidearm
I never got to play with this one much…and I’m not really sure if it ever went into actual service or not.
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@Radium - not that I’m aware of. It will slave to Helmet or radar only.
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In Falcon BMS 4.37 U3 i did kill a ZSU 23-4 with a harm 88. I did it but actually it was a fail : i wanted to destroy a FCR from an air defense bataillon cant remember the SAM type. I forgot to setup SD mode and let it to IT not highlighted. I saw a plume of smoke and fire after my attack but the SA FCR radar was emitting again. With tacview i understood it was the shilka that was destroyed (not on purpose).
Either the FCR SAM stoped emitting and the harm88 found the shilka radar wave or the harm88 found nothing and kept moving dead ahead and crashed in Shilka by chance. I cant tell. -
@molnibalage I have big doubts also. Maybe AIM-9X has some IR mode that allows you launch your missile on a TGP designated target or something… It’s technically possible but what I say here is purely speculative !
In fact about ~10 years ago it was considered to make az AIM-9X also an AG weapon. You can reprogram to recognize any kind of IR image / shape.
But the issue is the cost. A ~1-2M UDS missile which at best can kill az AP/IFV would be way too expensive while a JDAM is in 25-50k range, an AGM-114 is ~ 100k and even an SDB II is just a faction of the cost compared to the AIM-9X.
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@molnibalage said in ZSU+AGM88:
@molnibalage I have big doubts also. Maybe AIM-9X has some IR mode that allows you launch your missile on a TGP designated target or something… It’s technically possible but what I say here is purely speculative !
In fact about ~10 years ago it was considered to make az AIM-9X also an AG weapon. You can reprogram to recognize any kind of IR image / shape.
But the issue is the cost. A ~1-2M UDS missile which at best can kill az AP/IFV would be way too expensive while a JDAM is in 25-50k range, an AGM-114 is ~ 100k and even an SDB II is just a faction of the cost compared to the AIM-9X.
I got to “escort” one of these on a det once…a LONG time ago…