Unsolved CTD in AAR TE
-
@jayb i don’t know if I’m good enough at AAR to repro this… but I will try thanks for the quality bug report – very weird, the part about being sluggish after landing.
did your wingman refuel too? once or twice? or did you just RTB him
-
@airtex2019 Thank you for picking this up so quickly!
We were in package 2075, Goblin3 flight. As for my wingman, he refueled fine at the first tanker (the one on the briefing for the flight), but when we got to the 2nd tanker (KC-10) he did not.
It went like this: I asked the KC-10 for us to refuel inside 10nm (think it was 7 or 8 nm out) and was told I was “number one to refuel”. After having refueled and stating Done Refueling, there was no comms from the KC-10 towards my wingman, but the radio text started listing messages, quickly 10 identical radio texts came onto the screen. Paraphrasing it said “Goblin 3-2, Camel 1-1, you are outside my airspace, contact me at 10 miles” or something to the effect of him being too far away. I had to manually enter the KC-10 frequency for UHF since it was not one of the presets, dunno if that can mean anything. It shouldn’t, since the AI mimics our UHF choice so he should have entered the same tanker freq as me.
As for the sluggishness once landed, I might have dinged up the gear since I went a bit off the runway.
-
@airtex2019 I got a dump file from Windows Error Reporting too. It’s quite big (500 Mb zipped) so let me know if I should make that available
-
@jayb said in CTD in AAR TE:
Dump file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aRSm2MC-MvA9c0cIwvcD0PUj4QOgrdR7/view?usp=drive_link
please share google drive access…it is still protected
-
I hope that did it, copied new link :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aRSm2MC-MvA9c0cIwvcD0PUj4QOgrdR7/view?usp=sharing
-
A guess… Is it possible that after taking fuel you might have not told the tanker “done”?? That might explain the reason the wingie didn’t take fuel at the second tanker and it would be a big clue for us in debug direction…
-
Past the guess question – just want to rule that out quickly - what the crash signature says is that your jet was still in the AAR Qs after you landed. Probably the waiting for the rest of the flight to finish Q. If you did issue the “done” call and it went to the right tanker, then somehow that message likely didn’t work to free the boomer up to work the wingman onto the boom.
Is there a chance that the messages to Goblin 3-2, your wingman presumably, were not coming from the tanker you took gas from?? Can we also assume that at the time you said “done” (again, presuming that you did), that your wingman was well inside 10nm radius of the tanker you got fuel from??
And again, just to rule out the obvious – Camel 1-1 is the second tanker that you took gas from - that’s the one that cleared you for the second fueling??
That it crashed on you so far in time after the AAR evolution makes this harder to pinpoint…so just looking for as many clues as possible on how to reproduce. This is not an area of the code we see a lot of problems with. However!! The path through the code for a second refueling in a mission from a tanker that your flight wasn’t necessarily fragged to visit is a path that has had less flight time and testing so something could easily be lurking…we just need some clues to help find it
-
For reference, this is the scheduled flight plan for the Goblin3 flight and the detour to the KC-10 tanker track on the East coast :
I will run the scenario again and make a recording. If the messages reappear we can check. If they don’t, it might have been a fluke. As for your questions:
I am 99% sure that I did issue the Done (Y-3) command after the KC10 disconnected me because I had been topped off. I was sliding to the right and looked back at my wingman who was close to me and that is when the messages appeared. Did I close my fuel door too, hm I will check in the remake.
It makes some sense that he would get “strange” messages if the tanker did not kick me from its queue. Well, atleast that could be some kind of explanation.
An additional thing that came to mind. Since the KC-10 tanker visit was not on our flightplan, there was no refueling steerpoint. Just something the code might be confused about ?
-
That’s good extra context. Thanks.
If you are running this again to try a repro, would you consider turning on logging??
If you wanted to do that, setting g_fXMonoprintFilter in the config file to 512 and running with the -mono command line flag. That should generate a monolog file with specific tanker/AAR state info and having that in addition to any crash txt and dmp files would be potentially very helpful.
You could paste this into your user config file and that should work:
set g_fXMonoprintFilter 512 // tanker
To your questions, the fuel door in your jet should not matter for the case you are describing.
Equally, not having a refuel waypoint active for the tanker that you were at should not matter.
-
@Boxer Just an update: Still working on reproducing the CTD / tanker problem. Last night I had the comms issue for my wingman already at the first tanker (the one on the flight plan). Unfortunately I had not seen your -mono and did not take any video of that. Since then I have flown the mission a couple of times with debugging and video but now the problem will not reappear. Figures. I will keep trying, it happens too often for it not to happen eventually, and I will have video and debug output then.
-
@Boxer said in CTD in AAR TE:
Past the guess question – just want to rule that out quickly - what the crash signature says is that your jet was still in the AAR Qs after you landed. Probably the waiting for the rest of the flight to finish Q. If you did issue the “done” call and it went to the right tanker, then somehow that message likely didn’t work to free the boomer up to work the wingman onto the boom.
Is there a chance that the messages to Goblin 3-2, your wingman presumably, were not coming from the tanker you took gas from?? Can we also assume that at the time you said “done” (again, presuming that you did), that your wingman was well inside 10nm radius of the tanker you got fuel from??
And again, just to rule out the obvious – Camel 1-1 is the second tanker that you took gas from - that’s the one that cleared you for the second fueling??
That it crashed on you so far in time after the AAR evolution makes this harder to pinpoint…so just looking for as many clues as possible on how to reproduce. This is not an area of the code we see a lot of problems with. However!! The path through the code for a second refueling in a mission from a tanker that your flight wasn’t necessarily fragged to visit is a path that has had less flight time and testing so something could easily be lurking…we just need some clues to help find it
AFAIR there is queue protection : when you fly away , you are automatically removed from the queue
how this code could have failed is the question
EDIT : i can’t find this code again, so maybe i missed this case, will investigate
-
@Mav-jp I have been trying - and is still trying - to replicate this issue. This time with debug info.
The situation is that my wingman (Goblin 3-2) is right next to me, but gets the “outside my airspace” messages from the tanker. It is as if he has been entered into the tanker queue properly but when I am done refueling and the time comes for him to refuel, the tanker has wrong information on where he is. My theory is that the pointer for him on rare occasions at that moment points to another object/jet or the position property gets reset or just points into unallocated memory.
The above happened to me in SP. The other day someone complained about a MP situation where his human wingman could refuel but he could not. Perhaps this is also because the tanker perceives him to be far away, even though he is right next to the tanker. Again, the stray pointer theory could explain that.
The theory could be total garbage. But if not, then the tanker queue management code might be just fine and the problem lies elsewhere.
-
@jayb said in CTD in AAR TE:
@Mav-jp I have been trying - and is still trying - to replicate this issue. This time with debug info.
The situation is that my wingman (Goblin 3-2) is right next to me, but gets the “outside my airspace” messages from the tanker. It is as if he has been entered into the tanker queue properly but when I am done refueling and the time comes for him to refuel, the tanker has wrong information on where he is. My theory is that the pointer for him on rare occasions at that moment points to another object/jet or the position property gets reset or just points into unallocated memory.
The above happened to me in SP. The other day someone complained about a MP situation where his human wingman could refuel but he could not. Perhaps this is also because the tanker perceives him to be far away, even though he is right next to the tanker. Again, the stray pointer theory could explain that.
The theory could be total garbage. But if not, then the tanker queue management code might be just fine and the problem lies elsewhere.
Can you reliably replicate the problem with your wingman beeing told “outside my airspace” ?
-
I have run the mission a couple of times since, but I have not yet been able to replicate it. After I turned on debugging (and started taking video of the mission) the problem has not (yet?) appeared.
-
@Mav-jp – I have reliably reproduced that in the AAR TE training TE. Not in the way described in the OP’s report. It happens because the wingman is not going into RefuelMode it seems. Now why that happens is still a puzzle.
-
@Boxer Can I ask how you recreate the problem (which flight)? I flew it two more times yesterday as Goblin3-1 and did not come across the issue
-
@Boxer said in CTD in AAR TE:
@Mav-jp – I have reliably reproduced that in the AAR TE training TE. Not in the way described in the OP’s report. It happens because the wingman is not going into RefuelMode it seems. Now why that happens is still a puzzle.
can you provide a repro case or do you want to handle it ?
-
@Mav-jp – I already mentioned this in RC so this is more for @jayb here.
Take eastern TRAINING flight, refuel as normal. Clear the tanker by a full 10 miles once wingie has completed refuel and rejoined of his own accord. Call for fuel y-1 again to the same tanker (i.e. don’t change UHF freq)…confirm that he tells you to call again from inside 10nm. Close to ~4nm (enough so you and wingie are both well and truly inside 10nm) and call y-1 again. Refuel yourself and y-3 at the end of that and then see what happens with the wingie. For me at that point the radio goes bonkers.
I think you can tell something is up before that though – I suspect but I forgot to confirm – I would guess from the code that as you are on the boom for the second time, the wingie is NOT in the on-deck position or even close on the tanker wing – more like he’s in “normal” en route formation keyed off your ownship position rather than being in the refuel pattern.
Now having written all of that, I just tried it again and I managed 3 complete cycles with the AI in tow and it didn’t fail Must be something else to it…but I did see it fail in two separate flights in recent days…
-
@Boxer said in CTD in AAR TE:
@Mav-jp – I already mentioned this in RC so this is more for @jayb here.
Take eastern TRAINING flight, refuel as normal. Clear the tanker by a full 10 miles once wingie has completed refuel and rejoined of his own accord. Call for fuel y-1 again to the same tanker (i.e. don’t change UHF freq)…confirm that he tells you to call again from inside 10nm. Close to ~4nm (enough so you and wingie are both well and truly inside 10nm) and call y-1 again. Refuel yourself and y-3 at the end of that and then see what happens with the wingie. For me at that point the radio goes bonkers.
I think you can tell something is up before that though – I suspect but I forgot to confirm – I would guess from the code that as you are on the boom for the second time, the wingie is NOT in the on-deck position or even close on the tanker wing – more like he’s in “normal” en route formation keyed off your ownship position rather than being in the refuel pattern.
Now having written all of that, I just tried it again and I managed 3 complete cycles with the AI in tow and it didn’t fail Must be something else to it…but I did see it fail in two separate flights in recent days…
I don’t have much time today, if you have time I suggest you put a break in RemoveFromQ()
-
@Boxer Thank you for confirming I am not crazy, haha. It happens sometimes is what I have seen as well.
I will try out the eastern flight as you described. Is there any other debug setting that would be useful to invoke to get details pertaining to the wingman - right now I use the 512 flag as suggested ?