Unsolved free fall ordanance (dumb bombs) CCRP sudden accuracy shift
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An ACMI recording might be useful for debugging. I would not expect to get consistent hits on target from a level delivery at that altitude. How far are they missing? And is it always to the same side no matter the attack direction? What were the winds at that altitude?
Questionable accuracy is why wind corrected munitions with INS/GPS guidance kits were developed (as well as laser guided munitions which came first). Unless you are rolling in with a decent downward dive angle and being closer (slant range) to the target, level deliveries with conventional munitions is a toss up. (No pun intended)
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Please check wind aloft
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@mirv I am to please this is the trimmed ACMI 87,rockeyes, 84,82 (https://1drv.ms/u/s!AmeNAIeJuXDcvyYbfwmuNi7Cdbzo?e=3KD7Ro) I simply want to understand why something used to work them suddenly stops working? dumb luck? Having difficult time buying for 6 months i have been lucky and suddenly cant hit the broad side of a barn and everything is 2000 ft off more or less and always seems to be off in the same direction or so it seems what the crew chief bend the sights?
if somthing broke i need to know how I un break it. if they are just a coin toss why ever risk dropping them.
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@Jim_H as Mav says “please check wind aloft”
perhaps a huge understatement – you are traveling M0.8 with nose pointing 12.6° but you’re tracking 21.2° ??
I haven’t done the math but… I don’t think I’ve ever seen my fpm crabbing that far (8.5°) off to the right of my HUD
This must be like, hurricane-force winds, aloft.
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At 22.000 feet the winds are much stronger than at ground level
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perhaps a huge understatement – you are traveling M0.8 with nose pointing 12.6° but you’re tracking 21.2° ??
The drift c/o is activated??
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@airtex2019 My E6B math (dumb pilot trig), IF that’s the right data in the ACMI, it would be a dead direct cross wind of 73 knots. I’m suspicious that he just somehow bad lucked into a direct crosswind but that’s what it would mean when the TAS and GS match exactly. But 73 knots at 20000 is definitely well with the realm of day to day wind speed depending on the weather system, which is one of the reasons why dumb bomb medium altitude and above level bombing is never inherently accurate.
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gents not carping (well maybe a little ) but i am really confused and frustrated K… the weather brief WAS SUNNY light winds
Snake you are right! there was a 70 some odd kt breeze from the WSW Now from what the NWA pilots always told me , on them million miles i flew on NWA we got head winds or tail winds all the time and a lot bigger then that.
sometimes a couple hundred. I didnt think much of it beside it was blustry it was novemberso what bugged me ok
this was not the 1st time i saw it, it was the 3rd time i was trying to replicate it and why i used kotar and a target easier then a row of tanks to determine where the hits were striking and understand what I was seeing.
Snake you are right again it wasnt by chance the wind was abeam cuz I put it on the beam both right and left (and also nose and tail) 2 diffrent flights too to see if it was the wind I actually flew with wind on the right beam the left beam heading into it and the away from it dropping bombs … rockeyes 87 82 84 from different compass points to see where they were falling
I get bombing in a crosswind will cause drift with the wind, I get into or against the wind can cause long maybe short fall but they should not wide to the side, I don’ get why abeam, nose or tail they were basically hitting the same basic spot and if someone can explain that . when dropping from the N, S E W with a sw wind why are they hitting about 2k yards off toward the SW from the target direction of travel dosnt seem to matter now that has me confused., I saw that 3 hops in a row. not just 1 time 3x in a row and I cannot wrap my head around it
if someone one can I am all ears.
however the good news i Air refueled normally just fine with a 70knt hurracane quartering wind go figure
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@Jim_H
Just a for instance looking at the weather right now, KLSE La Crosse Regional Airport in La Crosse, Wisconsin, at 18000’ MSL is having 280 degrees at 70 knots and 24000" 270 degrees at 85 knots, so at 20000 pretty close to 73 most likely. At the surface the wind is 340 degrees at 9 knots, 10SM visibility and clear skies. 9 knots maybe is on the edge of light to moderate but nothing crazy still. Very plausible to the BMS weather.Also factor that these winds shift directions and speeds as the bombs fall and that the FCC/MMC and FCR can’t really take that into account for CCRP/CCIP, it’s amazing we come vaguely close at altitude.
As for the hurricane force winds while tanking, the only reason hurricanes feel that bad is that you are stationary (turbulence notwithstanding), you and the tanker were both “swimming” in the same 70 knot “water” current being pushed the same direction with no resistance. Speed is all relative, and to each other that wind was having no effect on you both, but was having in relation to objects on the ground like your bombing targets.
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@Jim_H from the planes pov it’s always flying perfectly straight through the air… when thinking about crosswinds its sometimes easier to think of it as the ground moving beneath you, in one direction, rather than the wind blowing you in the opposite direction.
The jet has gps and ins so it can compute “how the ground is moving” relative to the jet
In theory the CCRP computer can calculate all that… but the wind is not 70 kts all the way down to the ground. So, from the bombs pov it would feel like zero crosswind at the moment it’s released, increasing in strength as it drops
So yeah it’s unintuitive.
Hit right-arrow to see the INS computed wind vector on the DED. Set your HSI to align with that. Do bombing runs directly upwind/downwind, and it should miss a bit long/short but be close to the line of flight
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@Snake122 I was being sarcastic about the tanking bit. …
wont belabor the point i was hitting a solid 70% statistically hits and misses tracked and suddenly goes to zero … I don’t tend to believe coincidence so i report it,
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Wind is not the issue because the FCC is computing it for bombing. It is able to compensate from the wind it actually knows
Wind aloft is
The FCC has a standard wind aloft bomb model based on current wind and current altitude , but the real wind aloft is not the standard hence provoking deviation