Su flight model please
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@DexterMorgan:
woah thrust vectoring is cool! does it actually increase roll rate… or it’s just for animation?
Whithout FM edit it just animation.
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If you are working on AFM I strongly suggest you PM me as you certainly need clarifications about many stuff in there
I am now and have PM you……
Some help will be appreciated, thanks if you can find some time.
Regards
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No !
Yes
A simple example
The original model
AOA =24, M = 0.5, CL =1.2
Thrust (H = 0, M = 0.5) 28,250 pounds or 12,814 kgNow, the data from the flight manual Su-27 book 2
M < or = 0.5, AOA = 24, CL = 1.85This means that in the original FM at AOA = 24 degrees, Mach 0.5, H = 0, have insant G = ((0.7 * 1.2 * 62 * 10332 * 0.5 ^ 2) +2 * sin (24) * 12814) / 21400 = 6.77
Now correct data at AOA = 24 degrees, Mach 0.5, H = 0, insant G = ((0.71.8562 *10332 0.5^2) +2sin(24)*11747)/21400=10.13
performance of stock Su-27 are public, and BMS FM of Su-27 are based on a reverse engineering of these performance data
My dear friend
Please Provide the exact source of your public data, that you used for the calculation.If you want to improve the Su-30 FM, you should start from the Su-27 one (not from the F-15)
I long ago rebuild all flight model based not on reverse engineering Its build on practical aerodynamics for the specific aircraft.
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This is the last iteration of my 30mkk SFM mod.
OMG, facepalm.
Shadow
I wrote to you, that you can not take the data separately. Separate Cl from CD and so on.
understand one simple thing that CL is inextricably linked to CD. Cd with Trust. but you choose your own way.
please take away of your FM mention about me, I do not want to have nothing in common with it
and buy a textbook on aerodynamics -
@OSD:
Yes
A simple example
The original model
AOA =24, M = 0.5, CL =1.2
Thrust (H = 0, M = 0.5) 28,250 pounds or 12,814 kgNow, the data from the flight manual Su-27 book 2
M < or = 0.5, AOA = 24, CL = 1.85This means that in the original FM at AOA = 24 degrees, Mach 0.5, H = 0, have insant G = ((0.7 * 1.2 * 62 * 10332 * 0.5 ^ 2) +2 * sin (24) * 12814) / 21400 = 6.77
Now correct data at AOA = 24 degrees, Mach 0.5, H = 0, insant G = ((0.71.8562 *10332 0.5^2) +2sin(24)*11747)/21400=10.13
seems very unlikely …please provide manual SU27 book 2
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There’s a few of us at 801st / UKF that enjoy flying red airframes against blue, but in BMS Red flight models are far inferiour to AF.
So is there any one that can help me copy say a F-15 FM in to a SU-30mmk airframe.
Or is there some one ( and I do relize the time/research involved) that can help do a semi decent FM for the SU-30mkk
Or a mod of the F18-c FM ??
……Shad
I do have manuals and performance papers of both. Contact me on TS …cant share in public.
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seems very unlikely …please provide manual SU27 book 2
Cу бал means Cl with the losses on the balancing
Су доп means Cl authorized by system of limits the angle of attack -
@OSD:
Cу бал means Cl with the losses on the balancing
Су доп means Cl authorized by system of limits the angle of attacki dont understand shxx
could you tell me what is the difference between chart a) and b) in you second picture ? would you thanslate the whole text ?
have you the AOA vs MACH limiter curve ?
have you the CD (alpha , mach) as well ?
why many parameters seem hand written ?
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While PM-ing you i just quick searched the net and stumbled over two pics
I know, nothing detailed, but i found it interesting to see them both in comparision like that.
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i cant understand what is indicated on the Y axis of those diagrams , seems to be a turn rate in deg/s ? and G’s in last diagram ?
is there a MASS indicated somwhere ? because without mass, all those diagram are BS …
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beside, have we got PS curves ?
have we got CD (alpha,mach) ?
have we got thrust curves (including ram drag) ?
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@A.S:
While PM-ing you i just quick searched the net and stumbled over two pics
I know, nothing detailed, but i found it interesting to see them both in comparision like that.I knew that these diagrams will be sooner or later. They are not true, or shall we say adequate, but with some reservations only for a particular case. no details
Just compare with the graph of the flight manual, and everything becomes clear. -
Well, i can send you what i have, but that russian …so, alot of translate and “reconstruct missing data” work i guess…
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@OSD:
I knew that these diagrams will be sooner or later. They are not true, or shall we say adequate, but with some reservations only for a particular case. no details
Just compare with the graph of the flight manual, and everything becomes clear.I knew soon or later each time you post something like that one is to show up and argue :)… but honestly…i give a flying f### …i havent made those curves.
Just found it on net. But i agree, going more in “relyable” data and comparing them would be wise. -
Be patient, I will answer and explain something. I can not answer all at once
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@A.S:
I knew soon or later each time you post something like that one is to show up and argue :)… but honestly…i give a flying f### …i havent made those curves.
Just found it on net. But i agree, going more in “relyable” data and comparing them would be wise.it is always the same story guys :
- Are the mass same on both Diagram ?
- what is the Drag Index ?
- standard atmosphere the same ?
And finally , as performance are still classified, i dont trust really propaganda (US or RUSSIAN the same !! )
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1,2 and 3 …logic.
But for 4…agree, realitycheck is a smart thing to do -
it is always the same story guys :
- Are the mass same on both Diagram ?
- what is the Drag Index ?
- standard atmosphere the same ?
And finally , as performance are still classified, i dont trust really propaganda (US or RUSSIAN the same !! )
everything is much easier this is supposedly confidential methodological manual
miraculously snared much earlier than the flight manual for export version Su-27
it’s the same confidential methodicsLook at the weight and Cl max
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Many agents have died to share this information.
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@OSD:
everything is much easier this is supposedly confidential methodological manual
miraculously snared much earlier than the flight manual for export version Su-27
it’s the same confidential methodicsLook at the weight and Cl max
All those information are FAR to much incomplete, not specific and not reliable.
Before even thinking of working seriously we need and not only 3 points
Gs vs Mach at various altitude
Or complete CL ( alpha,Mach)
Or turn rate (Mach, alt)CD (alpha,Mach)
Or PS curvesThrust (Mach,alt) curves
Possibly accel and decel curves
Everything with proper weight, atmosphere and drag index
Without all of this a FM would be as wrong as another
JP