Redflag RP5 V5.0 Preview
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Nowhere, it is WIP. This is why the title of topic preview.
It has been asked, you cannot DL and apply with a single click to existing Korean theaters. It will be available only for RF RP5.0 and at least to mine Korea '80s because it is partially based on work of A.S thefore the adaptation is much easier.
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I may be missing something, but… where to download? Can I run these tiles in an offline campaign, too?
All the best & thanks for your amazing work!
Uwe
Yes you can. Redflag theaters (infact all FO theaters) always come with two theaters. One with modified UI for the clients and only to fly on the Falcon Online server - and a full Standalone version, which can be used offline or online with friends.
Redflag RP6 5.0 Falcon Online (to be used on FO servers only)
Redflag RP5 5.0 Standalone (full standalone theater for private SP or MP usage)You can later switch between both.
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Nowhere, it is WIP. This is why the title of topic preview.
It will be available only for RF RP5.0 and at least to mine Korea '80s because it is partially based on work of A.S
Keep in mind, that i allowed you to use my elevations for monli-falcon, but keep in mind, that you need the permission of Polak to use the tiles.
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@A.S:
Keep in mind, that i allowed you to use my elevations for monli-falcon, but keep in mind, that you need the permission of Polak to use the tiles.
I know. He agreed in fact he PMed me moths ago (Feb?) that “hey Molny see what we will have and maybe you can make more attractive your mod”.
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Copy. Just wanted to make sure i don´t go above his head :=)
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Loving what your doing with Korea A.S!
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As I understand, apart from certain database modifications this theater mainly changes terrain textures and elevation data. However, certain objectives may be relocated as compared to the standard KTO to match changes to the terrain.
Questions: Will RedDog’s Korean AIP (http://users.skynet.be/bs999158/F4download_navigation.htm) which is based on the standard KTO still be valid with this theater? More to the point, are there any shifts in the theater coordinate system or layout that change where MOAs, navigation fixes, and navaids are relative to the ground? Are there any elevation changes so major that they would invalidate certain IAPs created by RedDog? Are there any changes to stations.dat and stations+ils.dat?
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That’s one top work from Polak and A.S.
You guys are reaching the top of developing Falcon terrain.
Looking forward to fly in RF5.Same thoughts here! Its nice to see what’s coming soon!
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As I understand, apart from certain database modifications this theater mainly changes terrain textures and elevation data. However, certain objectives may be relocated as compared to the standard KTO to match changes to the terrain.
Questions: Will RedDog’s Korean AIP (http://users.skynet.be/bs999158/F4download_navigation.htm) which is based on the standard KTO still be valid with this theater? More to the point, are there any shifts in the theater coordinate system or layout that change where MOAs, navigation fixes, and navaids are relative to the ground? Are there any elevation changes so major that they would invalidate certain IAPs created by RedDog? Are there any changes to stations.dat and stations+ils.dat?
Not sure, havent looked into his AIP. I dont waste my time in BMS to simulate “FSX expirences” or “basics” of the past again in a combat-sim.
Edit: Just looked at it: Everything should be compatible with exception to whatever is releated to elevations as those are made from scratch and new. No changes to stations/ils.
PS:
Redflag is much much much more than some* database "modifications* and new textures: http://falcon-online.org/forum/index.php?action=downloads
1,5 years of reworking of 5 years old stuff went into it …give it a try.I would have loved to use REAL elevations + REAL textures from a satelite service so MOAs, navigation fixes, and navaids relative to the ground match up with reality and Redogs work becomes even more sound, but there are reasons why this doesn´t work in BMS.
- the elevation resolution in BMS is reduced to 1000m mesh, meaning every 1000 meters as grid we can set ONE elevation data point. With such a low mesh and real textures used, things get porked and one can see rivers flowing anti-gravity wise over hills and mountain again. To eliminate this was objective. Obsiously, as real textures are much more defined and require higher resolution in elevations (mesh) to match up with real textures. FXS for example goes down to 1 meter mesh !! which allows to define elevations accordingly to real textures, which can be seen in this example (that tool does it even in real-time…imports and renders terrain on the fly …i spent some time with it).
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the fact that we can only use 4096 unique tiles in BMS doesn´t help to cover an area like korea either and we are force to come up with seemless repetitions and fractal variatons of tiles.
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Nor can i take his idea/approach as a reference. My reference is what is technically possible in the game-engine and something called “common sense looking terrain” aka best possible compromise.
My biggest wish would be to have the code changed allowing 1m or at least a 10 meter mesh and allowing higher numbers of unique textures useable. If that would become true, i would be able to create ANY theater with completly real textures and real imported elevation data from GEO services similar to what you have seen in the video above. Actually, we could even produce terrain much much faster as applications could be used instead of making 3000 textures and 250.000 elevation tiles per hand (which we did).
And quiete frankly…from over 2000 pilots registered over at Falcon Online i havent´t met ONE who was interested in runways of korea being placed at the exact same elevation as in real, nor have i ever seen any pilot in BMS using real MOAs in his mission planing. Stuff like that was crucial and interesting in FSX or X-plane or PPL lectures… but i haven´t seen anyone using it in BMS. Maybe there are some pilots who train for a real war in real korea … i might have missed that :=)
Good work ReDog anyways S!
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Not sure, havent looked into his AIP. I dont waste my time in BMS to simulate “FSX expirences” or “basics” of the past again in a combat-sim.
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And quiete frankly…from over 2000 pilots registered over at Falcon Online i havent´t met ONE who was interested in runways of korea being placed at the exact same elevation as in real, nor have i ever seen any pilot in BMS using real MOAs in his mission planing. Stuff like that was crucial and interesting in FSX or X-plane… but i haven´t seen anyone using it in BMS. Maybe there are some pilots who train for a real war in real korea … i might have missed that :=)
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I must absolutely find the time for one PvP mission on your server, so that you will be no longer able to say that.
Point is not having the RL field elevations, but having a usable documentation to practice the sim correctly. This is the aim of Red Dog’s charts & documentation.
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How i say this is a way it makes sense, hmm!? The terrain needed to be fixed FIRST so one does not see rivers flowing over mountains and hills, no buildings hanging in the “air”, no highways climbing 40° into mountains… THEN one can make a MAO map based on what we have, not on what we will never have (real terrain).
Besides (no offense)… if crashing into a mountain by not having a MAO map is your concern, you shouldn´t do combat-flying
I know Dee-Jay, if we like we can be very “anal” in how we fly and we can get lost in SOPs of the real world, but you know as much as i do … flying is not happening on “paper” - or how my mother used to say as i way young "son, your calculations at home don´t match the real market", meaning idealistic and realistic are two different things. As far as RedDogs documentations…he does a great job and i appreciate it, although i cant find people using it EVEN i myself have linked to his previous work (like this one: http://users.skynet.be/bs999158/MAPKOREA/index.html)I can not (and will not) create a theater based on his documentation (or real MAOs and altitudes) if other more important things come first and if it is not possible in the first place (post above).
You are very welcome and you might even meet some international “colleagues”.
PS: Much more important than runway altitutes and real MAOs … is having finally working ILS for north korea ruways. I think stuff like that should be addresses first.
Note: IF someone of you guys can change the code so we can use 1m mesh and unlimited unique tiles then i can promise you, that i will be able to deliver a terrain for BMS better and more realistic than FSX or DCS. THEN RedDogs papers become REALLY sound and make much much more sense.
I have the know-how and the tools, but its frustrating to know not being able to implement any of it into BMS -
- the elevation resolution in BMS is reduced to 1000m mesh, meaning every 1000 meters as grid we can set ONE elevation data point. With such a low mesh and real textures used, things get porked and one can see rivers flowing anti-gravity wise over hills and mountain again. To eliminate this was objective. Obsiously, as real textures are much more defined and require higher resolution in elevations (mesh) to match up with real textures. FXS for example goes down to 1 meter mesh !! which allows to define elevations accordingly to real textures, which can be seen in this example (that tool does it even in real-time…imports and renders terrain on the fly …i spent some time with it).
I was more than happy even only 100 m mesh would be possible it would mean 100 times more smooth terrain as currently.
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I was more than happy even only 100 m mesh would be possible it would mean 100 times more smooth terrain as currently.
30M would be ideal as it is common standard on many GEO services. Higher resolutions are rare (only parts of the globe) or cost money. Korea wasn´t even covered properly
by google-map 2-3 years ago. -
Besides (no offense)…
Don’t worry
@A.S:
if crashing into a mountain by not having a MAO map is your concern, you shouldn´t do combat-flying
Well … To plan a low level ingress/strike/egress in bad weather (visibility zero) you need the MAO to plan the “string” profile (considering the possible failure of the TFR) (unfortunately, we do not have a more accurate pilotage TPC chart to plan a more accurate (optimized) string within the “track corridor”) …
And you know, it is my real life job. I’m using the MAO and chart’s terrain (topographic) elevation in real on that purpose since I don’t have TFR in my RL plane.
I know Dee-Jay, if we like we can be very “anal”
… I’m rather calling it “professional” … but I do agree : BMS is a video game.
PS: Much more important than runway altitutes and real MAOs … is having finally working ILS for north korea ruways. I think stuff like that should be addresses first.
According to aero publication, only Pyongyang is ILS equipped IRL. Probably few other airbase are ILS equipped (properly calibrated and in order to work … not sure at all), but unable to have more info on official publication.
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BTW … I’ve forgotten the most important about MAOs.
If you are “on top” with zero visibility below until ground, and if you have to dive for any reason, you better know what is the MAO below you or in the area…
Not much factor in South Korea (about 5000ft except near Sachon) , much more factor in north east DPRK (about 10.000ft) … I do not talk about countries such as Afghanistan (about 20.000ft!) -
I think you have now mentioned 100xtimes that you fly for real. But don´t think this makes me respect things more, becuase there are many other “real” pilots in this community ,)
I just do what can be done so folks here can enjoy themself better and i don´t get lost too much in the peripherial “nerd-realism corner”.
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@A.S:
I think you have now mentioned 100xtimes that you fly for real. But don´t think this makes me respect things more,
Fair. As I do not understand why you are having such remarks … I’m wondering if you really know what you are talking about in fact (?) … but my fault. I am forgetting too much often that it is a video game. Sorry about that.
becuase there are many other “real” pilots in this community
Sure … and I’m would be curious if they are thinking the same (?)
No need to “argue” about that, but since you are the most experienced and valuable virtual pilot, I was expecting more exemplariness in mission planning! (no offense … joking for real :D)
Seriously, flight documentation provided by Red Dog is necessary for ppl who wants to fly “for real” (all aspects of the fighter pilot’s job, not only talking about firing missiles) … I was just surprised about what you said concerning charts etc … but I understand your point actually : It is all about the fact that, anyway, it is the document to be adapted to the terrain, not the opposite.
But I am polluting the thread annoying ppl with details … please continue on the topic which is about RedFlag V5.0.
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@A.S:
30M would be ideal as it is common standard on many GEO services. Higher resolutions are rare (only parts of the globe) or cost money. Korea wasn´t even covered properly
by google-map 2-3 years ago.I always wondered what prevents rewrite the code of terrain.
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We all try to contribute what we can. That there are sometimes differences in the opinions is normal. I am gald you understand within the broader perspective here.
As i said, IF BMS (technically or code-wise) would allow me (us) to implement real elevations + real texture… we would do it and once this fundament is done correctly, extenstion like RedDogs work would become even more sound and more valueable. Yes, and although this is a game, we also can try to fly it as realistic as possible and with more respect to flying and details (some of us actually do that).
My focus (or character) is not solution A or B, but my philosophy is the project as a whole and how to make things come together and work. That there are compromises to be made sometimes (as it is a “game”) is natural.
Its like the “start building the house from the bottom and not from the roof” mentality leading my ideas. Remember, i also have “made in germany” roots aswell…maybe that´s why …dunno.PS: I made such a remark because you are hanging it out just too often. You dont have to as debating without hanging it into other peoples faces is possible too :=)
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I always wondered what prevents rewrite the code of terrain.
No idea … probably the same as ATC code (complexity) (?)