AI in cahoots with the ATO
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once you change a PAK or mission priorities slider the set by HQ is off. And once you click on start the campaign the ato will generate missions hence it is crucial to edit the ATO before starting a new campaign. Those are you options.
At this point, we’re not worried about ATO controlled missions, I’m talking about otherwise.
But I do understand your concern also, because it does work into the equation.
C9
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@Cloud:
Why in the world would you edit my post??
C9Having moderation rights, I simply hit accidentally EDIT instead of REPLY WITH QUOTE. Too late when I’ve realized my mistake.
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No I won’t give up on this. Again as I have worked VERY hard to beat back the red horde here the ato will insure I lose Kangnung AB. Very irritating…
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this being the case (that it is difficult to modify the campaign ATO AI) and taking into account the other replies in this thread (turn HQ off - humans assume a more “hands on” approach to ATO generation) perhaps we should focus on anything we can do to help out the human players - ?
such as…
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start the campaign with as much “HQ off” as possible
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enter the campaign editor UI with the clock “off” (the AI is “working” in the background as long as the clock is running - the first thing i do when i enter the CE UI is turn off the clock)
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start the campaign with the clock stopped (give humans a chance to get ahead of the AI and make assignments)
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.- any other suggestions ---- ??
I think that an expanded flight package generator (i.e. being able to task flights, like a wing commander) might be an awesome ability. Think of being able to generate flight packages, including loadouts and tasking priorities, would be incredible in campaign mode. We have a limited ability to change flights in campaigns now, but to create flight packages and being able to tasks them would be awesome. Don’t know if that is doable, but it would be great to do it.
Like most of my other ideas, it may be too time consuming, too difficult or not able to do at all given the current abilities of the current FBMS code.
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create flight packages and being able to tasks them would be awesome. Don’t know if that is doable, but it would be great to do it.
Like most of my other ideas, it may be too time consuming, too difficult or not able to do at all given the current abilities of the current FBMS code.
I dont know if I understood you correctly, but you can create a package now (right clic on the map, “add package”). Then, you can select flights you created and change waypoints, loadout…. Thats pretty much what you described.
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Yes.
Uncheck ATO by HQ the you have full control of ATO => you can build your own and manage the packages as you like.
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not to mention you should be able to do it while letting the ATM manage the squadron if you do it far enough in the future.
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i usually just fly with friends and we just run our own squadron. makes pretty certain that you’ll always have enough aircraft ready to go, and it means you can plan your own stuff without the AI dictating you go on a suicide mission to pyongyang through the 15 barlocks on the way there surrounded by uncountable SA-2/flak battalions day one 10:00.
if you guys are still using AI fragged flights primarily, i’d encourage you to learn to frag your own stuff, it’s much better all around.
the AI can handle the rest of the theater well enough though.
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For fragging a package, small UI amelioration can be helpful in the campaign engine (even though the UI is a perillous jungle).
To know which aircraft are available, all you can do now is try to frag the package and be answered “no aircraft available” if the squadron you selected has nobody ready at the times you requested.
Instead, you can imagine having a window with a table, with several columns :
1 Squadron name
2 Airbase
3 Type of aircraft and number still operationals (squadron list will be sorted by aircraft type by default).
(Basically, OOB data)
4 Aircraft immediatly available in the squadron
5 through 8 : Day/time at which next 4 aircraft will be available, and (if possible) why (mission return, out of repairs, refuel…).This way you can have an idea of when you can frag your package, and the risks of abort if too many aircrafts are down in previous missions.
Next 4 ships is an example, it can be more of course.
Accessing the data might not be that big a deal in the code, but working in the UI might. Its adding a feature though, not redesigning the whole deal.
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Instead, you can imagine having a window with a table, with several columns :
1 Squadron name
2 Airbase
3 Type of aircraft and number still operationals (squadron list will be sorted by aircraft type by default).
(Basically, OOB data)
4 Aircraft immediatly available in the squadron
5 through 8 : Day/time at which next 4 aircraft will be available, and (if possible) why (mission return, out of repairs, refuel…).This way you can have an idea of when you can frag your package, and the risks of abort if too many aircrafts are down in previous missions.
That would actually be VERY useful for ATO manual fragging!
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I dont know if I understood you correctly, but you can create a package now (right clic on the map, “add package”). Then, you can select flights you created and change waypoints, loadout…. Thats pretty much what you described.
Yes, but I was mentioning tasking priorities as well. I know about creating a flight, but customizing priority tasking would be pretty cool. Example:
You create a flight package to take out a radar sight. You assign the target, but also are able to assign secondary targets, conditions to engage target, tanking conditions, withdraw conditions, and divert/alternate conditions. You also assign other flights, such as SEAD escort, with the ability to priority task them as well.
Essentially, controlling the flights tasking algorithm. Simply setting engagement priorities. Since the AI takes over on all of that, maybe allowing the human player to manage those priorities would set a better advantage against the AI tasking priorities.
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So basically allow the humans to rewrite the AI then?
may as well fly with humans…
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@277200:
You create a flight package to take out a radar sight. You assign the target, but also are able to assign secondary targets, conditions to engage target, tanking conditions, withdraw conditions, and divert/alternate conditions. You also assign other flights, such as SEAD escort, with the ability to priority task them as well.
.The AI doesnt know “engagment rules”, “withdraw condition”. That’s simply too advanced for now. I mean, they cant even do a proper pass on a target… Or do a proper climb…
I agree these features would be nice for planning a mission, but its too much now. BTW, enemy and friend AI are the same : you are not as a disadvantage.
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So basically allow the humans to rewrite the AI then?
may as well fly with humans…
Yep,
I thought the algorithm might be to difficult to manage. It was in response to suggestions from SDsc0rch for making improvements to the AI tasking priorities. Most likely too much work involved to do so, if it even can be done.
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The AI doesnt know “engagment rules”, “withdraw condition”. That’s simply too advanced for now. I mean, they cant even do a proper pass on a target… Or do a proper climb…
I agree these features would be nice for planning a mission, but its too much now. BTW, enemy and friend AI are the same : you are not as a disadvantage.
Yep, as I posted previously.
Btw, never said AI enemy or friendlies (AI) are different from one another.
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That was for the OP. The only thing is when your AI/ATO is stupid, you notice it. But if enemy AI/ATO screw up, or dont do things efficiently, you dont see it. You’ll only think that this campaign was easy.
That being said, stupid decisions are not the privilege of AI, human commander can make some too. Altough not as obvious, of course.
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That was for the OP. The only thing is when your AI/ATO is stupid, you notice it. But if enemy AI/ATO screw up, or dont do things efficiently, you dont see it. You’ll only think that this campaign was easy.
That being said, stupid decisions are not the privilege of AI, human commander can make some too. Altough not as obvious, of course.
I would agree. Humans are spot on one day, and brain dead the next. The AI is at least consistent.
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My fav campaign KTO Iron Fortress. You can see in force levels I have a lot more available aircraft than the DPRK yet I have 3 flights up in the air and absolutely none from 3-F16-40, 2-F18C, 1-F18E and 1-F18F leaving me defenseless to scores of red aircraft. I made no change to ATO settings since campaign start early this morning Barcap slider half way and small amount of CAS. No flights are even scheduled(planning) for those squadrons which are basically the entire fighter force I have in SK except one F16-50 which flew once and one F4 ROK. This is not working right.
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Interesting. Have you tried pushing the bars all the way to the right in the pic 3,4 and 5?
They seem a bit skewered to the left.
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Falcon4 should still normalize them, but perhaps there is some limitation to it?