@Devs: AIs ability to "see" through "fog"
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I had a TE a while back (update 5 or 6) where I had a flight of SU-25’s in blue country. They had no other ‘sensor’ support (AWACS, etc.) other than their own on-board sensors. In some WVR engagements I made an interesting observation ….
If I approached from the rear with the radar off/snoozed, I could practically fly formation on them. BUT as soon as I locked them up or shot at them (miss or not), they would start turning, diving and evading. It made me think that they did not ‘see’ me unless they had some cue to know I was there.
That´s right. As soon as you lock them up (make them aware of your presense) or as soon as you “enter” the visual field of view (VDS data), they will know that you are there.
Some AI-planes (like the F-16s i.e) have a VSD definition of +/-179° horizontally, hence their ability to “look over their shoulders” (VSD 7). Other planes (like the Su-25) have a +/-160° sight horizontally and +90° and -35° sight vertically, hence the “rear blind spot”. It also depends, if it is “in range” though, because even the visual-spot-ranges are not unlimited fo AIs (air- and ground-units).The question (beside seeing through fog) is for example:
Let´s say you appraoch an enemy Su-25 from the rear and your radar is off. But there is an enemy EW-radar, or a runway-radar (the RADAR and ADA red cirlces in your 2D map view) - and you happen to be in that scanzone of that particular radar while tracking the Su-25 from the rear - will that data (you being spotted by ground units or/and objectives) be transmitted to the Su-25 as data-link, so it becomes aware of your presence indirectly? This is how it was originally desinged in F4 afaik, hence the reason and purpose to destroy all those radars in order reduce or eliminate the response-ability and -time of AI-planes in a campaign. It should work in BMS as well as it did in AF, if it didn´t break somewhere along the way.
This was important for me in the past (and still is, although not even confirmed if still functioning) … to elimated all those radars in order to reduce the INFO-NETWORK - so to speak - of the enemy side.I could have (and maybe should have) tested this privatly, but i thought i bring it up first as it is an important and interesting aspect.
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Yes, the AI can see through clouds.
By observations i get same results, but i am interested in if there is a piece of code addressing this, or if not, if there is intent or a chance to address it.
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AFAIK, weather has NO influence on any of the sensors (eyeball / IR). But a confirmation would be welcome.
This is indeed a major area of improvement for the future (note that I didn’t said “future version”) … it is out of scope of the 4.33 so do not expect any changes soon concerning AI behavior.
But I think that we can easily agree that giving to the clouds and fog an effect on visual acquisition, IR seekers, mission planning … would be a great (and necessary) enhancement changing a lot to the tactical environment of F4BMS.
However … an first step will be one of the new feature of the 4.33, not concerning AI behavior but about weapon employment.
More info about that in 3-4 weeks.
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AFAIK,
… it is out of scope of the 4.33 so do not expect any changes soon concerning ……
… one of the new feature of the 4.33,
More info about that in 3-4 weeks.
These are all very cruel words to use Dee-Jay, you should be ashamed.
PS; On topic, I don’t remember Falcon being any different. But it might just need a Visual C+++ update (;)) I’ll check with Gyro.
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Why cruel words? If you do not want any info I can edit … And keep the silence until you discover it by yourself …
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But it might just need a Visual C+++ update (;)) I’ll check with Gyro.
But remember :
(credits to XKCD, and no offense )On topic :
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I concur with observations that AIs have blind spots at the rear and below,
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In a campaign where I was spotted all the time by Fox-3 CAPs in high altitude, I flew missions below radar cover and could hit my target without problems, except when I finally entered radar coverage.
So I’m almost positive that not entering radar coverage is very important in order not to be spotted. BTW, spotted enemy aircrafts are visible on the minimap…. So to know for sure, you should fly a mission below radar cover, and have somebody else on the minimap, on the red team side, check if you are visible or not. -
heatseeker performance is not affected by weather… and that is why the huge seeking acquisition of MICA-IR, for ex, has been “balanced” by a flare resistance quite low (10 flares and they are deceived), but this is pretty bullshit. With atmospheric effects, you could put a more realistic flare resistance on this missile.
Moreover, Molni would see most recent heatseekers miss as well and stop complaining ( ), so that’s good too ! :mrgreen:
Radar perfs are a bit affected IRL, but not so much, so that is lower prio.
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As far as I know the blind spot to the rear is missing if AI is on ACE setting.
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I always assumed that the AI planes can see you through fog/clouds etc…… Just like AAA will blast you out of the sky at 22,000 ft through a solid cloud layer and without a Firecan radar to direct their fire!
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The GCI/CCC/IADS network, and AI detection/blindspots need attention. For the most part it works similar to the way it did in earlier versions of F4.
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Ive yet to come across a pilot that can turn his head sufficiently to see directly on his rear or over his head and backwards of under the plane through the floor. As KV pointed out the angles are pretty much as first programmed and do need attention in most models. A classic i love is when you get to the “OOF” on turning your head max left or right and can see over the seat back and out the stabiliser view. That poor pilot. In real life a maneuver like that seeing as the F16 has a raked seating postion would cause his neck to snap by his helmet digging into it.
One idea I would love to see back is the pilot with the kneeboards then limit the field of view per flight model to the real thing, padlocks lost when the target goes in a blind spot etc and realistic head views. Sitting in my seat here and now i can turn and still have a blind spot of a good 60 degrees rotation and vertical I cant see beyond 20 degrees behind me, ( done scientifically with a piece of cotton taped to the chair and stuck to the ceiling.
In real life a pilots view limitations are greater than this due to his wearing of his helmet, flight suit and being strapped in place. Yes have the view along the wings as a maximum and a max of 120 degrees from the horizontal to the vertical again due to the rake in the F16, but realistically the encumberance of suit straps and helmet, unless he gets out his seat and looks out back whilst on autopilot. If KV was following him it would be his last view of life anyhow.
Going into other airframes like the tornado or the Phantom their cockpits had about 25 - 30% blind spots due to the metal framing for the glass.
Yes I know its a sim and yes I know the flamers will start their usual hurling at me, but on this occasion I cant ( well I can and frequently do with AS ) argue with AS or KV this does need some injection of sense. Even driving your own car, you tell me its got no blind spots and you have perfect 360 degree view all around it and let me know the make and model id like to buy one. And no the James Bond Diamonds Are Forever buggy is not counted.
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For gameplay it’s a matter of balance. If the human pilot is more restricted in view like the real thing, the same should apply to AI behaviour.
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Ive yet to come across a pilot that can turn his head sufficiently to see directly on his rear or over his head and backwards of under the plane through the floor. As KV pointed out the angles are pretty much as first programmed and do need attention in most models. A classic i love is when you get to the “OOF” on turning your head max left or right and can see over the seat back and out the stabiliser view. That poor pilot. In real life a maneuver like that seeing as the F16 has a raked seating postion would cause his neck to snap by his helmet digging into it.
Despite the fact that the manuals flat out tell you how to get that view without doing yourself injury…
Pretty sure you can find some details on that in the MCH in your install folder.
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Yes I know its a sim and yes I know the flamers will start their usual hurling at me, but on this occasion I cant ( well I can and frequently do with AS ) argue with AS or KV this does need some injection of sense.
No idea, what you are talking about. Keep me out of this as reference.