Irisdynamics Magnetic FFB
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Nice!! But wrong aircraft though! Most useful in WWII or helos, I would think!
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Nice!! But wrong aircraft though! Most useful in WWII or helos, I would think!
Who in the world says one MUST fly the F-16 with a poopoopressure stick ?
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Sooooā¦
- how much does it cost?
- how is it interfaced?
- how do I shield any other electronics around it from the magnetic field?
- is it affected by PWM dimming for lighting and/or such?
- do I have to mount it in a non-magnetic supporting structure?
- how much power does it require?
- DC or AC power?
8 ) how much current does it draw? - does the power supply have to be computer controlled/modulated/throttled?
- how do power required/force feedback (max breakout) amount vary with stick length?
- how many cycles to failure in each axis, nominally?
- is it user serviceable?
- parts availability/cost?
Iām sure Iāll think of more questions after a nightās sleepā¦I only ask because I might not mind using one of these in a floor mounted center stick setup - but only with a prop driven sim.
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@A.S:
Who in the world says one MUST fly the F-16 with a poopoopressure stick ?
Even so, what good is force feedback on a FBW system?
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Even so, what good is force feedback on a FBW system?
force feedback can be disabled. tension (resistance) can be analog adjusted. sensors are not required, because the position of the magnet is automatically registered in the coils.
this construct might appear wierd and wicked for sureā¦but actually it is pretty smart imo.
this thing will run for 50 years ā¦ without wear. i just wonder, if the control software is availableā¦ because i could easily build this myself.
for FFB to be effective AND good, the sim itself needs a GOOD FFB built in interfaceā¦ i doubt, there is any sim out there with the FFB quality of racing sims nowadays - but the floating resistance ajustment is tempting - and the precision without mechanical play (ball bearing gimbal).
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Sooooā¦
- how much does it cost?
- how is it interfaced?
- how do I shield any other electronics around it from the magnetic field?
- is it affected by PWM dimming for lighting and/or such?
- do I have to mount it in a non-magnetic supporting structure?
- how much power does it require?
- DC or AC power?
8 ) how much current does it draw? - does the power supply have to be computer controlled/modulated/throttled?
- how do power required/force feedback (max breakout) amount vary with stick length?
- how many cycles to failure in each axis, nominally?
- is it user serviceable?
- parts availability/cost?
Iām sure Iāll think of more questions after a nightās sleepā¦I only ask because I might not mind using one of these in a floor mounted center stick setup - but only with a prop driven sim.
just curious ā¦what joystick do you haveā¦ and did you buy that one following that checklist
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Strangeā¦ I thought dick-waving season didnāt open until 15th Septemberā¦
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@A.S:
just curious ā¦what joystick do you haveā¦ and did you buy that one following that checklist
I have a HOTAS Warthog (planning on another WH stick), one complete HOTAS Cougar, and two Cougar TQSsā¦and a set of Saitek Combat Pro rudder pedals. And yes, I did check them all out this thoroughly after I wasted a lot of money buying the complete HOTAS Cougar instead of just the TQS. Iām a bit serious about this stuffā¦having invested large $$$ in my current Viper cockpit.
But it doesnāt matter - I found the spec sheet for the thing and got most of my answers - except for cost, which I expect will be quite high. For one, the prototype is only able to provide a Y axis max force of 37 N @ 180 Wattsā¦thatās roughly about 8 lbf, and given that I happen to know that the design control force for a P-51 is about 25 lbf per Gā¦well, this thing falls short of providing any near-ārealisticā force feedback as proto-typed, for what I was thinking of doing with it. Way shortā¦considering that itās a 37 N spec based on that short stick, and a longer one (wave onā¦) would require even higher power/current. And probably size - they do say they can scale themā¦cost also following scale, Iād reckon.
I thought these could be promisingā¦not so much anymore.
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Strangeā¦ I thought dick-waving season didnāt open until 15th Septemberā¦
Size matters no matter what the season, when $$$ are involved.
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Strangeā¦ I thought dick-waving season didnāt open until 15th Septemberā¦
What kind of grip were you thinking of attaching to it like?!
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Ive always liked FFB for MS FS and WW2 sims (via MS Sidewinder FFB Pro2 USB), but I donāt want FFB messing with my force modded Cougar. I do like the idea of the magnetic X/Y axes as theres no pots. However this can be achieved far cheaper with Hall Sensor devices or strain gauges, that we have already. Now if TM would replace some of its pot-metal and plastic ball/sockets with stainless steel, then thatās something I could get behind buying. Still, this is a very cool project.
I too ācollectā various joysticks as backups and alternatives (like Stevie). One of these days ill have to thin the herd, but I do see how being very involved in this hobby can result in hoarding to some extent. Its kind of how some golf enthusiasts have 50 clubs, 30 sets of shoes, 5 bags, etcā¦ which always brings on the ire of wives.
Note however, this sitck might not be compatible with a EDtrackerPro with its MEM techonology
:lol: -
the FFB (vibrator dildo function) i dont like so much about this stickā¦ especially on f16 - can be disabled anywaysā¦ ā¦ but what i love about it, it has dynamic pressure adjustment based on the Gs you pull ā¦ the ability to āfeelā increasing stick-resistance with higher G-load ā¦ ā¦THAT is mmmh mmmh mhhhhhh on many other jets too.
sensors it does not needā¦because the coils act as feed and read (sensor) at the same time (ingenious actually).
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The problem with it is that it canāt simulate G loading properly/realistically - itās too weak. And it draws a lot of power - 62 to 180 watts as specād; more if you scale it - so itās not even close to being a USB deviceā¦not a stand alone one, anyway. Most jets that I know about or have worked on (that have sticks that move) provide stick feel using springsā¦way less complex. And cheaper, especially from our standpoint. Want ārealā - use springs. Iāve even got a few places bookmarked that wind custom ones.
ā¦and I forgot I also have an FCC-3 on my Cougar stickā¦and plan to grab one of the new WH FCC-3s. Far more appropriate for a Viper.
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Force simulations have been done with electric motors and gears, or and toothed belts, with springs or and transitional mechanics - once even on a very expensive desktop stick with hydrolics.
Sensorics have been done with potis, hall-sensors, piezoelectric sensor, etc etc.I dont think the original pounds pressures would suit on a desktop anyways (F15, F14 as examples), but to be able to feel the force or tension with increasing G-load (or stick-travel - how i have atm), is truly very handy.
This new way is just unique and worth more tought i believe, but it is as good in the feel and flight? ā¦ no ideaā¦ would have to try it.
Dont get me wrongā¦i am not selling it ā¦ just intrigued by the completly new approach.
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The ability to get tactile feedback on the stick as a function of flight surface G loading is something better suited for aircraft without modern FLCS controlled hydraulics and FBW, yes? If this is the case, then this cool new stick wouldnāt be applicable to our BMS or DCS worlds, I would think. Where as it would be very applicable for how a A6M3 Zeroās stick becomes immovable in a fast dive after a certain point, or how buffeting can be felt as the a/c goes through its turns and point of departure.
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Yes. In fighters with hydraulic actuators that I know of āforceā feedback is provided by system of springs and/or mechanical stops - and really more correctly thought of as āfeelā; i.e. - an emulation of the true force. You only really get direct dynamic feel if the controls are directly connected with pulleys/cables/rods - two examples I can think of are the rudders on the Harrier and Hawk.
Iām not much of a fan of any of the āforce feedbackā controllers Iāve ever tried (they generally breakā¦), but I canāt help but think that something like this one could have some really practical applications in robotics or human augmentation mechanisms. Maybe drone control. Flight sims? Not so much.
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The thing is how well this new tech will emulate the real F-16 stick.
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Very poorlyā¦because it moves and the real F-16 stick does not, nor does it have anything resembling FFB. If you want a good F-16 stick, get an FCC-3!
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Flight sims? Not so much.
Yes and no.
Reason is, because we dont have the extra physical-sense immersion a real pilot has; and even though the F-16 is FBW aswell, the additional ability to FEEL the āloadā by hand (what else in a desk-chair, vibrating e-pillows? lol) ā¦is priceless. Btwā¦ something you DO already feel in the F-16 aswellā¦ the more pressure! (hand-pull) the more load - just non-moving controler.
Is it 100% realistic? ā¦ No ofc not, but sitting on a āstaleā 2D PC screen is not in the first place - and FBW 16 is not the only sim (plane) out there. Such a stick would be a good cross-platform solution.PS: I also was never a fan of āforce feedbackā on sticks - exception are more sophisticated racing wheels. The tech and the software support from those racing-sims is excellent often.
About the FCC3ā¦ to be very honestā¦ i believe, people who have electronics base knowledge and metal-work skills, could make a better and cheaper version of that.